Cob trainers only - part one

cptrayes

cptrayes

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OK, so, I've broken about twenty horses of all shapes and sizes, and never once had a problem getting them to flex their necks.

And now I have a cob :D

He's got that short and powerful neck, and at the two week stage of riding, he will not flex laterally, and his nose poke is world class :)

I'm in no hurry, and if this is just a time thing, that's OK. But he's a phenomenally quick learner, and it would be pretty disastrous for him to learn the wrong thing at this stage.

So, all you cob trainers, what would you do with a newly backed four year old who can be as stiff as a board through the shoulders and neck, and whose first level evasion is to set on the bit???

He is doing walk and trot, no canter., and he's naturally forward thinking.

Easter egg for all helpful responses :)
 
Not sure how helpful this is as you come across very experienced anyway, but with a little cob I helped with we did carrot stretches on the ground, and taught turn on the forehand early to help with the flexion throughout his body as he really didn't seem to know that any part of his body could bend sideways, including his neck. Once he grasped this he translated it to ridden work pretty much by himself with plenty of inside leg and riding very deep corners. But as I say, this was just with the one coblet so he could be an exception :)

ETA: We almost let him over flex to the inside to begin with so he got the feeling of it entirely unrestricted. Then when he had the hang of that, he was still ridden with a very open and inviting inside rein and a gentle correction to the outside to bring him back up to a more acceptable level of inside bend.
 
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Forget about what the front end's doing and concentrate on the back end. Lateral work, and lots of it, has got my heavy-on the- forehand stiff-as-a-plank little cob moving like a Portuguese bullfighting horse.
 
mine was similar as a youngster just tought a touch of one rein was something to hodl against so from the ground i just started with carrot stretches, then with the bridle on then a little wiggle on the bit with the rein to the side of the carrot untill she got the idea that she could yeild to the pressure instead of holding against it, just progressed from there to sitting on her and squezing one rein untill she 'looked' that way gave a treat, then onto walking ect. shes always been one to evade/ignor pressure so this was helpful! have found with her and a few other cob types that they may be quick learners but some of them really need you to spell it out for them in the first instance!
 
I'd do the work on the ground first, to show him what you want, then progress to having a rider on with someone on the ground. If you can put obstacles for him to move round, I find that it usually helps them to get the idea.

I do hope that is helpful, as I quite fancy some Easer Egg.
 
Cowboy style lateral flex! Start by training on the ground with something that makes the signal clear, rope halter is easiest. Stand at horses wither and rest nearest hand on it, use other hand to apply gentle backwards curved pressure towards the other hand. Release and reward as soon as he softens. Keep building on this until he can flex right round and stay there relaxed for a few seconds. Obviously do this both ways. I try to get it so good thT when my hand is on his wither and I put a feel on the rope he flexes right round . I then progress to the same exercise on the ground but using the bit this time, again waiting until the horse can hold a relaxed flex. Once this is very well established it is easy to transfer to ridden work, start stationary then progress to movement. It is essentially good old fashioned 'bend to a stop' but creates excellent lateral bend and flexion.
 
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You get them off the forehand with transitions initially. Basically take time and patience to teach self-carriage from the start. Rather than asking with hands and legs for them to carry themselves in an outline and correcting them when they drop out of it. That comes much later when they already have the muscles and skills to do it, up until that point they'll just resist.

As someone else said, forget the head totally and work on the back end. In the earlier stages of training adjust your length of rein according to where they want their head at that moment, ride well in good position keeping the contact consistent but light regardless of length of rein, get the back to swing (which it won't if cob is tense anywhere). Gradually use school movements/exercises as training progresses (both in general and each session) to get the weight carried by the back end more, the forehand lightens automatically without you really doing anything.

You can't initially get hold of their heads and ride them into a slightly stronger contact like people often do to get a horse on the bit, they'll just lean/set against you and in a tug of war with a cob you're going to lose! Even later on that method isn't best, always best to do it through school movements less arguments that way. Loose ring bits help if the response is to lean on any contact at all. The leaning/setting/pulling can be made worse by any bit that's too strong (in the horses opinion), they don't back off from the too-strong bit they stiffen up and run through your hands, tanking off (even if its just at trot) or refusing to slow/bend etc. Try a bendy straight bar rubber snaffle if necessary.

They'll bend around your inside leg without you touching the reins, to start with just push your outside hand forwards a little to allow the head to turn to the inside. But they can only bend round your inside leg for a few strides initially. Don't do too much and make your cob ache! Or else they'll set against you on day one and on day two you'll be riding what feels like a breeze block crossed with a plank of wood. Stiffness due to achyness. They take far longer to get fit for flexibility than eg a TB. Pee them off and they shut down.

Hope that helps.
 
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Hey you're great guys :) I am fascinated by how everyone has said pretty much the same thing in different ways, and how your descriptions of how cobs react is EXACTLY what he is doing.

I really do not know how to train a cob, they are so different from anything else I've ever sat on in their ability to hold themselves stiff. So all help gratefully received and Easter egg on its way :)

Next question, he is VERY bum high right now, would you back off the ridden training and just hack out, out carry on with arena work (big arena, not endless circles).
 
saddlesore said:
Cowboy style lateral flex! Start by training on the ground with something that makes the signal clear, rope halter is easiest. Stand at horses wither and rest nearest hand on it, use other hand to apply gentle backwards curved pressure towards the other hand. Release and reward as soon as he softens. Keep building on this until he can flex right round and stay there relaxed for a few seconds. Obviously do this both ways. I try to get it so good thT when my hand is on his wither and I put a feel on the rope he flexes right round . I then progress to the same exercise on the ground but using the bit this time, again waiting until the horse can hold a relaxed flex. Once this is very well established it is easy to transfer to ridden work, start stationary then progress to movement. It is essentially good old fashioned 'bend to a stop' but creates excellent lateral bend and flexion.
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As above!! Having trained several cobs to a high level I find it's absolutely essential to each them to flex the neck early on. Next stage for me is teach them to flex one way and move the shoulders the opposite way....this can be done from both the ground or on top.

Once you have this then everything else becomes much easier as your school exercises will then be able to be ridden in a way that benefits their bodies rather than allowing them to remain stiff and loaded on the shoulders.
 
All my baby cobs have been very bendy from the start so I'm wondering whether he's perhaps got an ouchie somewhere.... have you had him assessed by a body-worker - just in case he's tense because he's hurting? Just another thought for the pot.... ;)

Have you got the book Cobs Can, by the way? Great read.....
 
Shy was really unbalanced at first especially in canter. Doing circle work was quite hard for him I would say until he was 5 - 6. I didn't force the issue, and only really cantered on the straight till he had the hang of where his feet were going.

Then lots tiny transitions, and he has really muscled out now, can do lateral work, go backwards fine, can balance much better over a jump. I think the thing with cobs is that although they are easy to "break", they still have a lot of maturing to do, and can get a bit trippy and un balanced. x
 
cptrayes said:
OK, so, I've broken about twenty horses of all shapes and sizes, and never once had a problem getting them to flex their necks.

And now I have a cob :D

He's got that short and powerful neck, and at the two week stage of riding, he will not flex laterally, and his nose poke is world class :)

I'm in no hurry, and if this is just a time thing, that's OK. But he's a phenomenally quick learner, and it would be pretty disastrous for him to learn the wrong thing at this stage.

So, all you cob trainers, what would you do with a newly backed four year old who can be as stiff as a board through the shoulders and neck, and whose first level evasion is to set on the bit???

He is doing walk and trot, no canter., and he's naturally forward thinking.

Easter egg for all helpful responses :)
Click to expand...

Welcome to the world of the plank - something like this .......? as you can see the lady was not impressed.

Martha26thApril13015_zps80170f73.jpg


We started with work on the ground, carrot stretches and then moved on to gently bringing her head towards the handler whilst asking with the hand on the rib cage for her to step under and over with the inside hind. Work equally in both directions and when she was able to do it easily we moved on the small circles whilst maintaining the bend.

With that mastered we moved on to leg yield on foot. The equiami was used to encourage the stretch down which was something else she could not do. Once on board hours were spent in leg yield, traver/renver and a steeper leg yield/ walk half pass. To achieve softness in the neck you need the hind leg to step under and through. It is possible but cobs are not as athletic as lighter built horses but with time their necks/forehand will lighten.

My mare was going nicely after 6 months work but came out of work for most of last year and is now back to square one so we have the same problem OP !
 
AdorableAlice said:
Welcome to the world of the plank - something like this .......? as you can see the lady was not impressed.

Martha26thApril13015_zps80170f73.jpg


We started with work on the ground, carrot stretches and then moved on to gently bringing her head towards the handler whilst asking with the hand on the rib cage for her to step under and over with the inside hind. Work equally in both directions and when she was able to do it easily we moved on the small circles whilst maintaining the bend.

With that mastered we moved on to leg yield on foot. The equiami was used to encourage the stretch down which was something else she could not do. Once on board hours were spent in leg yield, traver/renver and a steeper leg yield/ walk half pass. To achieve softness in the neck you need the hind leg to step under and through. It is possible but cobs are not as athletic as lighter built horses but with time their necks/forehand will lighten.

My mare was going nicely after 6 months work but came out of work for most of last year and is now back to square one so we have the same problem OP !
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Got it in one AA. The picture looks exactly like what I was feeling on the end of my reins!
 
I have the opposite problem with my 4 y/old highland - he appears to have the capacity to jackknife like a badly reversed trailer :eek3: No helpful comments as I agree with the better worded ones above.
 
We currently have two youngsters, a rising 4 Appy and a rising 3 cob. If I hold a treat by the Appy's tummy, she simply swings her head round and eats it, the cob spots it and shuffles backwards till she gets to it, they are going to need different training programmes :)
 
That's what Henry will do too YG.

It's out of my comfort zone, so if you find anything that works particularly well, let me know :)
 
This will sound silly, but back him up against a wall, then do the treat thing, if he is as food orriented as ours, he'll get the idea quickly :D and because they are bright he will transfer it when he isn't backed up to a wall. We back our two up every evening when they are coming in, the Appy does it athletically and tracks up beautifully, the cob much more ponderously and carefully, without tracking up.
 
Sounds totally logical, not silly at all. I can't think how come I never worked out out for. myself!! Henry's bum will be introduced to the wall tomorrow :) !
 
We have had a few cobs over the years :) They are sisters horse of preference, plus Dad drove a bit. I must admit I prefer the slightly lighter creatures
20130707_181948.jpg
The two young ladies in question
 
Treats ;) Asbo gets an occasional treat when I'm riding him and if I tap him on the side of the neck his head snakes around pdq
 
YG your picture tells the whole story doesn't it? You can just see the natural balance of the two is totally different, with the cob mare putting all its weight down and forward.

Isn't the appy a pretty colour?

Trasa, he'd probably bend himself into origami for treats :D
 
Yes CP, I think that picture tells all the story, admittedly it may be a little unfair, as the cob was a bit bum high at the time, but it sums up their different natural ways of going.
 
That cob mare of mine was given a treat when she did well under saddle. It took all of five minutes for her to cotton on to 'do you want a polo'. The problem came when she realised she was doing well and stopped by herself after a successful leg yield or whatever, looking round at the rider for a polo !

I can ride her to a road junction, not bother with a halt aid and just say do you want a polo - stops dead.
 
One more tip... Take the noseband off the bridle, even a loose cavesson can make them feel restricted and therefore tense up. You can put it back on later when training is more established. Experiment with the height of the bit too. I was once at a clinic where the instructor put my bit up 3 holes each side! My horse instantly turned into a stiff plank and it felt like I was holding a couple of bricks in my hands. So I dropped the bit down again when nobody was looking and got my sweet flexible horse back.
 
I have to admit that I would never train with treats before for fear of producing a pocket mugger. But it really works with a cob, doesn't it :D ????

I established from the floor that there is no lack of flexibility in his neck or shoulders. He ate cubes from his girth. Then I got on and taught him leg yield for the first time and he was very good for a first effort. Then I halted him, put my hand on his elbow with cubes in, gave a rein aid on that side and said 'give' and he snaked his head round and ate them. I did that on the other side once as well. Then I walked off, and when he set, I turned him a little and said 'give' and he did!!!!! Well that was easy :) :) :) I finished with the food again, and called it quits since he'd been such a good boy.

Thanks for the tips everyone :)
 
cptrayes said:
I have to admit that I would never train with treats before for fear of producing a pocket mugger. But it really works with a cob, doesn't it :D ????


)
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IME it works with anything, you just have to make sure that they understand that *you* not they are in charge of the treats but certainly cobs are usually food oriented.
 
Just wanted to add... Whatever you do, do not underestimate the intelligence of the cob. They do a great job at looking a bit dim but actually they know exactly what they should be doing. Be prepared to try different methods - mine tends to only put in maximum effort if he has an audience and ideally they are clapping...!

Mine got the hang of working properly with trotting poles pushed ever further apart, I think he liked the challenge and it literally just clicked into place.

Also - just be aware of their mouth conformation - I can't put anything with a joint/port in my pony's mouth, anything other than a mullen mouth and he just grips on to the bit and won't soften (mine also only goes properly in his pelham but that's just him being awkward!).
 
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