Coffin Joint Pain

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Stenners

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I read this forum a lot and thought I would finally post and get your thoughts.

My 14.2hh 12 year old Cob X mare has been lame on and off for 2 years. She was diagnosed with 'broken back hoof pastern axis' almsot 2 years ago. We have tried cortisone, supplements, different shoeing, box rest, rest with turnout, even gave her 8 months off to see if that would help.

Unfortunatley it hasn't. She will be almost sound for maybe a month or 2 and then for no reason at all she will go lame again. There's never really any heat in the foot or a pulse.

I've owend her for 7 years and she'd never had a days lameness and until she went lame I was unaffiliated eventing, showing and hacking her.

Around 6 weeks ago I managed to get her out to our first show in 2 years so that was an acheivement in it'self and she stayed sound however I took in the school the week after (she was going so well I thought I'd try her on a surface) and it made her very lame and she's not been right since.

2 years on I'm unsure where to go from here as nothing seems to be working. My insurance ran out just over a year ago so I also don't have that to fall back on anymore. I want to be able to compete and all I can do at the moment is walk around the roads with a bit of trot.

She gets bored when she's in a field doing nothing - it's heart breaking!
 
Can you post some pictures of her feet? Someone might be able to suggest something.

My boy has hoof related issues and taking his shoes off is allowing for far greater improvements than remedial showing did. If you look through my post you'll see some of his story.
 
I'll take some and put them on here howevr she was turned away without shoes for 8 months but gets very sore feet when unshod as they are so flat and doens't grow any hoof. She is now in normal traditional shoes.
 
If you want to try barefoot again you need to look at the diet first. My boy wouldnt manage barefoot without restricted grazing and balanced minerals. I've just had his shoes off as he had early symptoms of navicular syndrome :( I thought he'd be crippled without shoes, but I overhauled his diet a month before hand and got a really good trimmer, and hes as sound out of shoes as in, although thats still not properly sound. He will be sound though once he has transitioned :)
 
Yes she had many xrays done - nothing major really shows up on X ray. Both front feet look the same but only ever been lame on the same foot. Which is why it's baffling as she's more lame than she should be going by the x-rays.

She's on restricted grazing - always is and is fed on a TopSpec Feed balancer and joint supplement.
 
If she has flat feet as well as the broken back axis she probably has some reverse rotation of her pedal bones? Has anyone ever assessed her foot fall with slow motion video? - My lad had x-rays that looked the same for both fronts but was only lame in the one - the one that he landed very laterally on and probably had some collateral ligament issues in as a result.

has she ever had coffin joints medicated?
Top spec has been anecdotally to cause footiness in barefoot horses.

Turning away unshod isn't usually the best thing to do with something that needs a proper barefoot rehab as the feet need work to grow - as it seems you maybe found out. If she were mine I would be getting a good supportive farrier/trimmer on board. Change diet a bit, take off the topspec and add a barefoot diet based supplement such as those from forage plus/pro hoof and add micronised linseed for the joints (I don't believe scientifically that joint supps work). Get a pair of hoof boots if not comfortable bare and start with short amounts of walking. Frank was fine bare to start and we did 10 mins road work daily and slowly built up, he did have to be booted for a bit after the 6 week point.

Or send her to Rockley Farm.
 
A MRI is the way forward it will give you a lot of information.

As others have said going Bare foot could be the answer. it does take a little while for them to adjust to having no shoes on. As a stop gap you could get some hoof boots. It is not only hoof balance that needs addressing but the whole balance of the horse so a good BF trimmer along with a good Equine Osteopath and a good diet is what is needed.
 
Has she had targeted nerve blocks done to pinpoint the area that is causing the lameness? one of mine was very slightly lame last year he blocked to the foot then had more targeted blocking the following day to find out what area was involved, xrays showed nothing but we found where it hurt and at that point an educated guess was that it was just deep bruising, he had a month of very easy work on a surface and came sound. The next step otherwise would have been to go for MRI as it may have been ligament damage which does not show on xrays and can take a seriously long time to heal, if they ever do properly, mine came right so that was not necessary in your case if you have insurance it would be worth doing, if no insurance I would look at treating it as ligament and doing barefoot rehab, although even with insurance it is probably the best route, you have little to lose by trying it now but it is something that requires commitment and a lot of patience to get right.
 
I wouldn't likely have been able to justify the cost of an MRI and worked on the basis that conventional methods hadn't worked, if he retired (as older anyway) he was having his shoes off, barefoot and time seemed to be well reported for most foot issues regardless of what MRI actually showed up. I suspect it would have shown some level of collateral ligament damage and treated as such and took a longer time than most over it as I figured we only had the one shot ;). He shows no signs of any lameness in front anymore. As you say be positive, a bit of a nothing to lose situation so tried to do it as 'properly' as possible. As localish I would also have sent him to rockley over paying for MRI.
 
Stenners said:
I read this forum a lot and thought I would finally post and get your thoughts.

My 14.2hh 12 year old Cob X mare has been lame on and off for 2 years. She was diagnosed with 'broken back hoof pastern axis' almsot 2 years ago. We have tried cortisone, supplements, different shoeing, box rest, rest with turnout, even gave her 8 months off to see if that would help.
Click to expand...

Unsure why a broken backed hoof pastern axis would make any difference two years on. THis is a problem that causes sheared heels which can cause lameness through significant pain but also through infection but should have righted itself now with a decent farrier shoeing the horse in a better way than was previously shod.

I take it you have changed farriers?

If not do so and explain that your horse has a broken backed hoof pastern axis to your new farrier - who should spot this anyway and get your horse shod in a more sympathetic way.

I think in two or three shoeings you should see a difference.
 
My girl (TB) was diagnosed with coffin joint changes and collateral ligament injury by MRI last year. She had her coffin joints medicated and I took her shoes off. She did come sound but went lame again a few weeks back. She travelled to the opposite end of the country to start rehab with Rockley about 10days ago. Eagerly waiting to see how she gets on. I don't think I had her diet & exercise quite right for her to develop a heel first landing hence why she went lame again with me. Hopefully Nic at Rockley can sort this out!
 
To answer a few of your questions.... She's only been on Topspec for the last 4 weeks. Before that's she's been on a range of things from chaff and cool mix, healthy hooves etc. Yes she's had nerve blocks and her coffin joints injected. No I haven't changed farrier, vet has been very happy with the way she's shod as they have worked together. Never heard of Rockley Farm until this post.
 
A lot of supplements advertised as good for hoofs aren't used by barefoot peeps. I work on a unmolassed plain base (like speedibeet), add oats for any energy required, linseed for coats and joints and supplement with equimins advanced complete pellets (no iron) and extra magnesium oxide. - supplements made by forageplus and pro earth (on ebay) have been designed against general uk grazing deficiencies and what people find works well for hooves.

If you haven't yet heard of Rockley I would suggest you give yourself the chance of doing some reading around before deciding what to do. Most peeps that are really keen on barefoot are only that way because it worked for them when they thought they wouldn't get their horse back. Frank was shod with bar shoes and hooves improved externally but they weren't any more functional as still lame and coffin joint injections also didn't work although nerve blocked to that area.

Taking shoes off for a planned barefoot rehab rather than turning away can be a bit daunting at which point it is useful to have someone who is very on side I think, be that farrier/trimmer who can help and be a sounding board along the way (and hand hold as necessary).

There is a lot of information on the net about barefoot successes and others can also direct you to more but I think you need to have as much info as you can and then make that decision yourself.

So rockley is here
http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk/

This lady is a member on here though doesn't post that often anymore her blog is interesting.
http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.co.uk/

This is a barefoot forum that has been useful for people new to the concept and other things like selling boots etc. It can seem like everyone barefoot is having problems but I think that is mostly because those who have good hardworking hooves tend not to have current questions to ask!
http://phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org/

The success of boots IMO do depend on the quality of fit, most trimmers are able to advise with what might suit, 'equine podiatry supplies' and 'the saddlery shop' are also great for advice if you give measurements of hooves and the latter do hire try before buy.

Please do give it some thought, as I said I did with my then 19 year old, now 21 and not looked back, he is fully sound - hacks 30 odd miles a week (lots of tracks and roadwork which he copes generally well with despite his still rather flat soles in front). Has been hunting, dressage, jumping - essentially everything he did before his lameness. We still learn from him exactly how much/how little trimming works for him though!

Any questions do ask and people will try to help :)
 
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