coincidence or unfortunate - abscess - self trimming

Kezzabell2

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I'm convinced there is a reason for this but others think its a coincidence.

Almost 2 years ago to the day, my horse had his shoes removed! medical reason meant that shoes were making him lame. Vet wanted us to try self trimming, which works perfectly for him, however he does grow flare on the inside of all 4 hooves, which he obviously needs. But every 6 months ish I've had his feet tidied up by a farrier. We do a lot of road work, so its always a case of just controlling the flare, before it snaps off.

So here's the unfortunate point me for me! 3 out of the 4 times he's been trimmed, 1-2 weeks later he's developed an abscess. In the 2 years, he's not had an abscess except for on these 3 occasions. So I'm thinking there is more to it? why do they only occur after a trim! I do not blame the farrier in anyway, as these trims have been done by 2 different farriers, both of who looked at his x-rays before hand, 1st farrier was working with the vet at the time of all of his issues!

I just wonder if rasping maybe some how allows dirt to get in easier.


I will also add I have my own rasps, so do tidy his hooves up in between times, but obviously not as well.

Thoughts?
 

Melody Grey

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I'm convinced there is a reason for this but others think its a coincidence.

Almost 2 years ago to the day, my horse had his shoes removed! medical reason meant that shoes were making him lame. Vet wanted us to try self trimming, which works perfectly for him, however he does grow flare on the inside of all 4 hooves, which he obviously needs. But every 6 months ish I've had his feet tidied up by a farrier. We do a lot of road work, so its always a case of just controlling the flare, before it snaps off.

So here's the unfortunate point me for me! 3 out of the 4 times he's been trimmed, 1-2 weeks later he's developed an abscess. In the 2 years, he's not had an abscess except for on these 3 occasions. So I'm thinking there is more to it? why do they only occur after a trim! I do not blame the farrier in anyway, as these trims have been done by 2 different farriers, both of who looked at his x-rays before hand, 1st farrier was working with the vet at the time of all of his issues!

I just wonder if rasping maybe some how allows dirt to get in easier.


I will also add I have my own rasps, so do tidy his hooves up in between times, but obviously not as well.

Thoughts?
Forgive my ignorance, but how significant is the flare and is it imperative for a farrier to remove it? The reason I ask is that my big welshie self trims and I've had a farrier to him twice in two years; the first 6 weeks after I got him who told me he didn't need trimming and the second in April this year (we had an outbreak of ringworm so I stopped going out for a few weeks while it cleared). Otherwise I very occasionally run a rasp around the edges to prevent chips and is more cosmetic than anything else. The last farrier to see him was impressed to say the least with his feet. Luckily we've never had an abscess (touch wood), so just wondering whether it's worth the risk trimming if the two do seem to be linked?
 

ester

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Change the balance by removing flare he has worked hard on= pressure on internal structures, bit of internal structure dies = abscess.
 

Kezzabell2

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Forgive my ignorance, but how significant is the flare and is it imperative for a farrier to remove it? The reason I ask is that my big welshie self trims and I've had a farrier to him twice in two years; the first 6 weeks after I got him who told me he didn't need trimming and the second in April this year (we had an outbreak of ringworm so I stopped going out for a few weeks while it cleared). Otherwise I very occasionally run a rasp around the edges to prevent chips and is more cosmetic than anything else. The last farrier to see him was impressed to say the least with his feet. Luckily we've never had an abscess (touch wood), so just wondering whether it's worth the risk trimming if the two do seem to be linked?
they are quite significant, I tend to keep them under control for a few months then suddenly they seem massive and I just get them rasped when they are about to crack or when one has started to show a slight crack.

ill see if I have a pic

also it makes it difficult to boot him if they get too big
 

Melody Grey

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they are quite significant, I tend to keep them under control for a few months then suddenly they seem massive and I just get them rasped when they are about to crack or when one has started to show a slight crack.

ill see if I have a pic

also it makes it difficult to boot him if they get too big
Mine has hoof boots on the front for stony tracks and longer hacks, I do use shorter hacks solely on tarmac to trim each week and leave the boots off completely if they're getting snug, but mine never seems to grow much flare- maybe they're all different in that respect with some more liable to cracking?
 

Kezzabell2

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yeh we can easily do a 10 mile hack a week with no boots but I do use them every now and again when we go down the stoney tracks!!

My vet said he obviously needs the flare, hence growing it, but he doesn't wear down the inside as much as the outside, which is why I think the flare ends up cracking!
 

Melody Grey

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yeh we can easily do a 10 mile hack a week with no boots but I do use them every now and again when we go down the stoney tracks!!

My vet said he obviously needs the flare, hence growing it, but he doesn't wear down the inside as much as the outside, which is why I think the flare ends up cracking!
Yes, I guess the flare is nature's way of balancing the foot? Mine grow a little ridge down one side, but it rarely cracks. I do use Kevin bacon's hoof moisturiser in the hotter weather though and mine are on restricted grazing and no hard feed so their hoof quality seems good- is there anything to do with diet/ hoof care that may be resulting in the flares over- growing/ cracking?
 

ester

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Id leave them alone if he is sound and comfortable as is.

I would worry if mine abscessed after every trim too, so the issue seems easily resolved to me! Does he have much/any white line stretch on that side?

I was aware that 'dieing' might sound a bit dramatic but it is likely the smallest bit that then needs to get out somehow.

You've seen this one I presume?
(credit to nic @rockley)
 

Kezzabell2

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Last xrays were 2 years ago when shoes were removed but his back feet haven't ever been shod and that always grew flare before we knew he had any issues. There isn't any separation of the white line

He has pedal osteitis in his front right hoof and the coffin bone don't sit on the correct angle. So we tried raising his heels with remedial shoeing. But he was 6/10ths lame when we took shoes off

Maybe I'll just worry less about the flare and keep them as tidy as I can with my little rasps
 

DD

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maybe try trimming (rasping) a bit more yourself gradually so that you wont need the farrier and the change in balance wont be severe then. mine were last trimmed by a farrier about a year ago. they now self trim with tidying up as and when needed. one of mine has significant flares. so far no problems ( touch wood). I find rasping little and often gives better results then leaving them til they need doing. hope this helps.
 

Kezzabell2

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maybe try trimming (rasping) a bit more yourself gradually so that you wont need the farrier and the change in balance wont be severe then. mine were last trimmed by a farrier about a year ago. they now self trim with tidying up as and when needed. one of mine has significant flares. so far no problems ( touch wood). I find rasping little and often gives better results then leaving them til they need doing. hope this helps.
I do tidy up after most Road hacks but guess I should use the farriers rasp more often. Will see how we go over the next 6 months

Also seen a few posts about side bone recently, don't know anything about it, but don't want him to develop that :/

Not that I'm a worrier about his feet or anything
 

ester

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Have you got a sole picture?

We have one flarey hind, it was like that when we deshod, it's the one that was later diagnosed with spavin (obviously I had my suspicions) I have no issue with him keeping it.



^^ that hoof belongs to a horse who if allowed to keep that flare moves straight and is perfectly sound, it stems from an old shoulder injury.

DD not a link off the top of my head sorry, it's just reasons given why recently deshod horses can abscess, and those that are metabolic, it's all internally initiated.
 

Pc2003

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Id leave them alone if he is sound and comfortable as is.

I would worry if mine abscessed after every trim too, so the issue seems easily resolved to me! Does he have much/any white line stretch on that side?

I was aware that 'dieing' might sound a bit dramatic but it is likely the smallest bit that then needs to get out somehow.

You've seen this one I presume?
(credit to nic @rockley)
Out of interest, what would eventually happen with a flare like that? My horse has a big flare on one foot (has joint issues) and I am always tempted to take him down the self trimming route however the longest we went was 13 weeks and I ended up calling farrier as the flare was massive and his feet seemed sooo long. But he was sound. Farrier trimmed too short and was lame for 10 days. His feet grow so long and the flare so big what would eventually happen??
 

Landcruiser

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I think flare is probably the wrong word here. It's distortion, the hoof growing the walls it needs to support the horse and the way it moves. As you say, there's no white line separation, which would be the case if it was true flare, as I understand it.
My horse has the same on his hinds, he is built like a bulldog and very close behind - but has a massive back end so wide at the tops of the hindlegs. Looked at individually his hooves look very lopsided, with "flare" to support where needed. But he's sound as a pound and always has been. I trim him myself and only take off any jagged bits and a bit off the inside if the growth exceeds the wear.
 

ester

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LC I agree it is flare v. deviation really but easy to say the wrong one! One is useful, one isn't :)

Well as far as I know, I'd have to search the story this deviation has been there a good few years and works functionally.

I leave frank's hind deviation but trim the fronts as that is more non functional flare there is more the result of uneven wear and if I don't trim his movement gets worse (and we are conscious of previous issues)

a flare search on rockley brings up a bit more about that hoof, and also the important difference between flare and deviations
http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=+flare
 

DD

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I think flare is probably the wrong word here. It's distortion, the hoof growing the walls it needs to support the horse and the way it moves. As you say, there's no white line separation, which would be the case if it was true flare, as I understand it.
My horse has the same on his hinds, he is built like a bulldog and very close behind - but has a massive back end so wide at the tops of the hindlegs. Looked at individually his hooves look very lopsided, with "flare" to support where needed. But he's sound as a pound and always has been. I trim him myself and only take off any jagged bits and a bit off the inside if the growth exceeds the wear.
^
this. Also I've comer to realise that the less we mess with feet the better. my cob has stopped tripping but is long toed! his fronts have changed shape and although not pretty hes moving much better.
 

Kezzabell2

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I think flare is probably the wrong word here. It's distortion, the hoof growing the walls it needs to support the horse and the way it moves. As you say, there's no white line separation, which would be the case if it was true flare, as I understand it.
My horse has the same on his hinds, he is built like a bulldog and very close behind - but has a massive back end so wide at the tops of the hindlegs. Looked at individually his hooves look very lopsided, with "flare" to support where needed. But he's sound as a pound and always has been. I trim him myself and only take off any jagged bits and a bit off the inside if the growth exceeds the wear.
that's really interesting, I've never heard of that before! so will do some reading about it!

the funny thing is, my vet always said my horses feet are too small for his body, so perhaps with the flare/deviation, he's feet are more likely the right size for his body

the problem with his is getting hoof boots to fit! he's currently in a size 4 cavallo simple boots, which fit the sole of his foot, some time I have to rasps a bit to get his hoof in there, but the there is a massive gap at the top of the boot! I've tried these boots on my friends cob, and they fitted her really well, over the whole hoof!! I guess they're okay, coz they don't twist, rub or fall off.
 

Kezzabell2

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update on the abscess! the farrier came the day after this post and the abscess was really close to the sole, just under the bar!! so he managed to get to it without having to do too much digging/investigation!

Sam's attitude changed immediately! I realised that he'd been a right brat for about 2 days, obviously in pain where it was brewing! and I thought he was just being a grumpy monkey! but he's back to himself now! hopefully a few more days of poulticing and will see how he goes without boots on!
 
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