Cold backed only in arena

[8058nicci]

Have a bit of a conundrum, have a just turned 5 yr old ID mare, done intense showing before I got her in February, loves hacking and going out and about, always been a bit sour in arena, lately started being cold backed and pushes the saddle forward when I first get on, saddle just been swapped by fitter as last one did the same.She is bum high again now,. I can get on in the yard and go for a hack with no issues, just bronked and reared today when asked to move one step in arena after I walked her round on both reins for 10 minutes, thoughts please. Physio out last week, no issues found.

 

[Bellaboo18]

What do you mean pushes the saddle forward? It sounds like it doesn't fit.
She's telling you she's uncomfortable. Id look at the saddle followed by a vet.

 

[COldNag]

If she has had an ill fitting saddle she could still be very sore.

I would get a vet out.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Time for the vet, I would say.

 

[tda]

When such large horses are bum high I always wonder why people don't just wait for them to level up (if they're having problems)
And if she's fab hacking, and has been schooled/shown intensively why not just stick with hacking for a while

 

[ycbm]

It sounds to me like time for the vet. What does she do if you circle on a hack?
.

 

[MidChristmasCrisis]

She is still growing, evidenced by being bum high. If she were mine I would allow her to mature..hack her out for sure and once a week go to the arena but no intense schooling. I would perhaps walk once round each way and out. Next time walk a figure of eight then out. Next time walk round with a friend on horseback..this means she is still used to the arena..learns it isn’t going to be hard whilst still growing and she is unbalanced etc etc. Saddle fit is important and if it is shunting up onto her shoulders then that will be uncomfortable and I would seek advice from a good saddle fitter and be prepared for a number of adjustments as she grows.

 

[8058nicci]

She seems to get tense and the saddle moves forward as she lifts her back, just had a second saddle fitted to her, doesn't move when I get on in the yard, or when hacking, even in trot, can leg yield and circle out hacking with no response. I could totally understand if it happens everywhere, been to clinics and got straight on from trailer, no issues.My gut says she doesn't want to be in my arena as she sees it as where she has to work harder. She has also done the same with my trainer aboard.

 

[8058nicci]

I would just turn her away, but she lives on fresh air, typical ID, and I have loads of grass, so wanted to keep the work going to regulate her weight.Saddle just refitted as I said, she is in a wide Kent and Masters, Bates Arena cob beforehand, both fitted by qualified saddler.

 

[quizzie]

What is the surface like in your arena? It may contribute to how hard she has to work in there, and affect her movement/balance.

 

[8058nicci]

Sand and rubber surface.

 

[8058nicci]

If she has had an ill fitting saddle she could still be very sore.

I would get a vet out.

Would like to think that the saddles have been fitted correctly as had 3 consultations since February and altered accordingly

 

[8058nicci]

She is still growing, evidenced by being bum high. If she were mine I would allow her to mature..hack her out for sure and once a week go to the arena but no intense schooling. I would perhaps walk once round each way and out. Next time walk a figure of eight then out. Next time walk round with a friend on horseback..this means she is still used to the arena..learns it isn’t going to be hard whilst still growing and she is unbalanced etc etc. Saddle fit is important and if it is shunting up onto her shoulders then that will be uncomfortable and I would seek advice from a good saddle fitter and be prepared for a number of adjustments as she grows.

Saddles been adjusted 3 times since February, she has come up over an inch behind since April, obviously growing

 

[quizzie]

Sand and rubber surface.

Is it the shredded tyre rubber mixed in with sand?....is there enough rubber?.......silica sand?...how does it ride?....Is the surface loose or deep?... is it an old surface that might need renovating?!

All can have an influence!

 

[8058nicci]

20 tonnes of rubber chip last year, slica sand, older arena, not deep

 

[Northern Hare]

Is your arena riding deep at the moment - it may be possible despite all this rain, as some horses really take a dislike to deep going.

Also, have you tried going into the arena for five minutes to loosen off after your hack, rather than going straight into the arena when you get on. Does she react in the same way?

Once you've discounted saddle fit, soundness issues etc, perhaps just keep to hacking for a while. She may just be really sour of working in the arena from her previous home?

 

[8058nicci]

She is still growing, evidenced by being bum high. If she were mine I would allow her to mature..hack her out for sure and once a week go to the arena but no intense schooling. I would perhaps walk once round each way and out. Next time walk a figure of eight then out. Next time walk round with a friend on horseback..this means she is still used to the arena..learns it isn’t going to be hard whilst still growing and she is unbalanced etc etc. Saddle fit is important and if it is shunting up onto her shoulders then that will be uncomfortable and I would seek advice from a good saddle fitter and be prepared for a number of adjustments as she grows.

Tend to agree with you, she just gives me the feeling that she is sick of schooling in there, have put poles out to trot over and worked between fillers etc to try and lighten the mood, but today, she wouldn't even walk a step, ears flat back, back up, circled to prevent the buck, then straight up. Trying not to go down the behavior route, got off, readjusted saddle, led her out of arena to yard, got on and happily trotted round the village!

 

[quizzie]

20 tonnes of rubber chip last year, slica sand, older arena, not deep

Some horses do find that that type of surface is quite mobile to "push off" from, and a big young weak ID would be exactly the type to find it difficult, which could easily lead her to tense her back ( and hence push the saddle forwards), rather than push off properly from the hindleg and use her core.

She may just need time/strength, but is there an arena you could hire with a firmer surface that would help you decide if there is an issue or not?

 

[8058nicci]

Some horses do find that that type of surface is quite mobile to "push off" from, and a big young weak ID would be exactly the type to find it difficult, which could easily lead her to tense her back ( and hence push the saddle forwards), rather than push off properly from the hindleg and use her core.

She may just need time/strength, but is there an arena you could hire with a firmer surface that would help you decide if there is an issue or not?

She has worked in other arenas that seemed a bit deep with no issues.

 

[quizzie]

She has worked in other arenas that seemed a bit deep with no issues.

Were they sand and rubber as yours is?

If so, then I would suggest a good vet work up to check there is nothing beyond a young horse needing time/strength.

 

[8058nicci]

Is your arena riding deep at the moment - it may be possible despite all this rain, as some horses really take a dislike to deep going.

Also, have you tried going into the arena for five minutes to loosen off after your hack, rather than going straight into the arena when you get on. Does she react in the same way?

Once you've discounted saddle fit, soundness issues etc, perhaps just keep to hacking for a while. She may just be really sour of working in the arena from her previous home?

If I have been out for a hack, we go into the arena and she is fine.I think she was pushed to hard too soon with last owners- professional showing people, ridden in a double at shows and carted round the country, feels like she has had draw reins used as well. I've just been concentrating on getting her to open up and stretch neck and shoulders a bit and take bigger strides. She is amazing, just don't want to screw her up.

 

[8058nicci]

When such large horses are bum high I always wonder why people don't just wait for them to level up (if they're having problems)
And if she's fab hacking, and has been schooled/shown intensively why not just stick with hacking for a while

I have taken her very easy since I got her, only go in the arena once a week for 20 minutes, would turn her away, but she would put loads of weight on and compound the problem of saddle etc. Disappointed that have had 3 visits from saddler and 2 different saddles fitted since February and still not sorted, already spent good money, don't want to ruin her.

 

[Zoeypxo]

i know of a young tb almost the same, can do anything hacking, go anywhere , any pace , but would threaten to buck in the school, ears flat back etc. kissing spine

 

[HopOnTrot]

My mare was diagnosed with kissing spines in 2022, her only symptom was that she would tense up in lessons, spook and take off with a few bucks. She wouldn’t do it if you lunged first and she would happily hack without issue.

I would definitely go down the vet and physio route.

 

[8058nicci]

My mare was diagnosed with kissing spines in 2022, her only symptom was that she would tense up in lessons, spook and take off with a few bucks. She wouldn’t do it if you lunged first and she would happily hack without issue.

I would definitely go down the vet and physio route.

How did you treat her? Is she ok now?

 

[ycbm]

It sounds to me like time for the vet. What does she do if you circle on a hack?
.

Did you miss my question?

What happens if you school outside an arena in a field but keep to a 20x40 size?
.

 

[8058nicci]

Haven't tried that yet as my grass is really long and going not great, no fields to ride in round here, also, my arena is 60 x 80, so she doesn't have very sharp turns.Fine on a small circle on a hack

 

[ycbm]

It's very extreme behaviour. I'm another one who had a horse with kissing spines who never did a thing out on a hack but reared and bucked in an arena, 30x40 in my case. In the early days he only bucked and reared in a 20x40 competition arena when transitions had to be on a marker, not at home where I could pick the exact right time for him.
.

 

[8058nicci]

It's very extreme behaviour. I'm another one who had a horse with kissing spines who never did a thing out on a hack but reared and bucked in an arena, 30x40 in my case. In the early days he only bucked and reared in a 20x40 competition arena when transitions had to be on a marker, not at home where I could pick the exact right time for him.
.

How did you manage him? Did you solve the problem?

 

[HopOnTrot]

How did you treat her? Is she ok now?

Initially we medicated and did physio which worked for a bit, on re-x-ray there were further changes so she had 4x ligament snips in autumn 2022. She’s also had her hocks medicated (she’s now 21), she is back in ridden work and we are slowly progressing, she saw the physio this week and she was really pleased with her progress. We do a lot of carrot stretches, weekly water treadmill sessions, we do a session in resistance bands, after she’s ridden she uses a NEMS machine (like a tens machine) to keep her muscles soft.

I don’t really have a plan or expectations for her, I just want her to be comfortable so we play the workload by ear. The rehab is now just part of our routine and will be forever.