Cold related behaviour issues

cptrayes

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I'm trying to understand the behviour of my 6 year old German WB. This is the second winter where he is very different to ride depending on how cold it is. If it is cold he will buck when I touch him with my legs, and set his back under me, especially in transitions.

He is completely different on a warm day. He is better if, on a cold day, I ride him in a thermocell exercise rug and lunge him before I get on.

I am thinking kissing spines, and wonder if anyone else has experience of the condition being much worse in colder temperatures? Think chalk & cheese different.

Alternatively, I am wondering if the nerves in his back sit abnormally close to the surface. A list A, well recommended, physio managed to make his back go in to total spasm a few months ago by doing a manipulation that she insisted could not possibly have been the cause. I accept that the horse may be odd, but it was definitely what she did that made his back go rigid for a week.

If his nerves are not protected enough, I could understand why cold would get to them.

But does anyone else have any experience of this?

Or can anyone suggest anything else?
 
Lots of horses will be a lot 'fresher' on a cold day - and I've certainly found that popping a quarter sheet, or similar, helps.

No kissing spine, or similar. Just fresh pony.
 
This isn't "fresher" Amymay, I'm well used to that feeling over the years. This is downright nasty behaviour and I am keen to find out the physical cause. I am sure there must be one because although he is always sharp, he is not normally a mean and nasty horse.
 
My WB (in my avatar) who has chronic SI dysfunction but has been rehabed is much much better ridden on warm days and also if I warm his back first with his Back on Track rug or a thermatex. I assume this is due to some arthritic changes or simply twinges in his damaged ligaments when they are cold.
Either that or he's a fair weather horse :D

Just editing to add - my WB was downright nasty and aggressive before he was diagnosed and rehabed. He just gets a little tetchy now especially being tacked up on a cold day - I assume because he is anticipating some pain or discomfort.
 
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Y&C can you feel anything in his back? I check the back before and after riding and as far as I can tell, it's all soft and spongy and normal. He's definitely much better with the rug on though.
 
Y&C can you feel anything in his back? I check the back before and after riding and as far as I can tell, it's all soft and spongy and normal. He's definitely much better with the rug on though.

What I can see if that when I put pressure around his pelvis and sacral area on a cold day he shoots his ears back and will snap at you and sometimes also kick out with a hind :( He doesn't necessarily feel any tighter in is back, but he shows it with his body language that he's sore.
We carry on albeit slowly (as some behaviour in my boy's case will be remembered) and I always ensure he is throughly warmed up via long reining for at least 10 mins before being ridden.

I would love to have a heat lamp and put that over him before ridden work, but my paddocks have no electric so it's not practical.
 
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Maybe he does get twinges when he is cold, Arthritic people def more stiff and sore when cold, speaking from experience!! I dont see why horses should be any different. Try hot towels on his back before you ride and put a sheet on him.:) You could also try a fleece liner on the girth?:):)
 
Thanks Y&C, interesting. I'll try prodding a bit further back. I'll ask my OH later for you if it's possible to run a small heat lamp off a big battery :)
 
Maybe he does get twinges when he is cold, Arthritic people def more stiff and sore when cold, speaking from experience!! I dont see why horses should be any different. Try hot towels on his back before you ride and put a sheet on him.:) You could also try a fleece liner on the girth?:):)

Thanks KK, my plated broken arm twinges in cold wet weather too :D

I hadn't considered the girth because he doesn't react when I put it on, but it's worth a try.
 
could it be possible that he has something related to EPSM, and just needs the muscles keeping super warm??

Angua I did a google the other day on EPSM and cold and could find no connection. Do you have more information or some personal experience that it does affect them? It would be an easy solution if all he needs is a high oil diet and extra vitamin E.

He does have intolerance to grass sugars, and the ridden behaviour is similar to what I have seen in an EPSM horse, hence my googling.
 
If possible try the hot towels, I know from experience they can work wonders another thing would be put him on Linseed losengers, Omega 3 6 and 9 excellent anti inflammatory.
 
Angua I did a google the other day on EPSM and cold and could find no connection. Do you have more information or some personal experience that it does affect them? It would be an easy solution if all he needs is a high oil diet and extra vitamin E.

He does have intolerance to grass sugars, and the ridden behaviour is similar to what I have seen in an EPSM horse, hence my googling.

Nothing that I can point you towards, it is more anecdotal regarding the two horses I am aware of, but this kind of management does seem to do the trick.

I know my horse does not have EPSM, but she will not work properly in colder weather if I don't have a quarter sheet on her.
 
I also thought EPSM in some mild form, I am sure it would be more of any issue in cold weather the muscles must take longer to warm up.

I had a mare that tied up mildly once, she hated moving around in the field once the ground got wet, I had not realised and continued exercising as normal and she tied up, getting her moving outside never worked so I had to lunge before riding in the winter, she was much better in the summer when she wandered round the field more freely .

Have a look at princess sparkles threads about CS and his behaviour which was, I think, worse when he was cold.
 
OK, interestinger and interestinger........ He's a great one for lying down and standing still. Luckily I don't need to keep him in a stable, so he always has room to move, but his really extreme behaviour on Saturday was on being ridden after being locked into a 90x40ft barn all night for the first time this year. I am thinking that it won't hurt to get some oil and try it even if it is not the answer.
 
Am I also right in thinking that EPSM is worse when the horse is stressed?

I have just introduced a new horse to barefoot rehab, and he has taken second place in the herd and Ace is odd man out. It isn't just the introduction of the new horse, he was fine all week until the temperature shot down to 5 degrees last Saturday morning.

Another piece in the jigsaw is that he does not buck on the lunge when I warm him up, but it does make him better when I get on. So it seems to be related to weight in the saddle, not just movement.
 
I am thinking that it won't hurt to get some oil and try it even if it is not the answer.

Start simple..... if it works great, if not, then it didn't break the bank and you have still got "wriggle room". Sometimes it really is the simple things.:D

Well that is the way I tend to look at things:rolleyes:
 
First night in, even in a large barn, would restrict his movement add the drop in temperature and some stress, I think you have the answer. A high oil diet would be a good idea, you are probably already on an appropriate low starch diet so not much to change.
 
My anecdotal findings are: (mine has EPSM type I) he is much much more grumpy in the colder weather especially damper weather - I have to keep him super warm (even though he never feels cold is a hottie!) or gets even more miserable - there is no actual research on this but I know a lot of EPSM owners find their horses get cold and grumpy and hard muscles easily in the colder weather.

Mine has to live out all the time as when inside and restricted movement
a. went a bit wild when was let out of the stable as could not bare to be touched, muscles really hard and
b. dropped shed loads of condition overnight within about 2 nights of being in.

Hope it isn't EPSM is a bit of a nightmare to manage - feed and exercise...
University of Minnesota has a great section on their website
http://www.cvm.umn.edu/umec/lab/PSSM/home.html

They are doing a study using warmbloods at the moment too.
 
It's worth looking back at some posts from Prince33Sp4rkle about CS. i think she found his behaviour was much improved if she rugged him up to the point of almost sweating before riding.
 
Have read this with great interest. We have a mare who is almost exactly the same- warm weather fine. Cold weather, she is very cold backed but better if lunged first (she doesn't buck on the lunge either), then when ridden she likes to jog as opposed to walk with head held high with a few bucks thrown in for good measure-all with her ears back and a real grumpy face on! We have open stables that she can go in and out of at will and in cold wet weather she will go into the stable and literally bronc-up at the front, then throw a buck or two -all on her own and with the door open!
Her muscles (and she has plenty as she is quite a muscley quarter horse) do tighten up and when we first got her she would squeal and cow kick when touched (it was january-cold and wet). She has gradually improved over time but still has her moments and can be very unpredictable in winter! I did feed oil but weight is an issue with her, so now feed a small amount of copra feed-magnesium oxide helped loads to stop the cow-kicking reaction-her muscles relaxed more.
She is just on a hay/straw mix with some grass in the summer- we too are sugar, starch and mollasses free! Have consulted vets re her behaviour and they seemed to think it was a behavioural and not physical problem-they didn't mention EPSM though!
So all thoughts and advice appreciated here too!
 
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