Collapsed Heels

squiz22

squiz22

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Hi All,

I had an absolute nightmare last year after swapping farriers. The new guy completely wrecked one of my boys feet and he completely stopped going (thats a very brief version of all sorts of trouble we had with him). He was schooling Novice xc and he was entered into a 100 with a view to step up but he wouldn't jump on hard ground which is totally understandable. Old farrier was reappointed (he'd moved away but had come back to the area) and the slow process began trying to sort his feet. We are nearly a year down the line and whilst we can keep a shoe on him now and hes able to work on a surface now but he completely shuts down on grass and so eventing has completely stopped for him. I don't have much experience in collapsed heals and Im really interested in others? What shoes did you try (we are thinking bar shoes and pads), how long did it take etc etc.. any other advice gratefully received.

I have a very talented horse currently unable to complete a 90 and its sad to see him so sore.

many thanks
 
I'm not sure it is possible to truely regrow much heel height in shoes, bar shoes particularly you are always crushing them and encouraging them to under run.- Though I imagine he would be happier if you put them on with pads for the time being. Could he have a few months out of shoes at some point?
 
So most would say that there is a reason (other than being a a TB) why his feet are so fragile and sensitive a year after the bad shoeing and I think pads will make his soles thinner in the long run as they are being protected and have no reason to lay down more. First question would be what is his diet.

have you read any of Michen's threads on here about her TB? Horrid feet and no good them staying in shoes/improvement would be very limited. He has grown a fab new angle of growth in boots but she has now put easyshoes on him as he was still struggling.

IMO you can patch them up/make the feet look better in shoes but they aren't necessarily functionally better and will be a weakness that might cause unsoundness at some point in the future. I don't think it is easy to take the more sensitive feet types bare for a while but it can be done while keeping them comfortable if done in stages and is probably better for them long term.
 
Hi I have been dithering about whether to post but decided I should. My horse is a tb x connemara, wonderful feet until a master farrier completed messed them up, after a very long period of not quite right and a few thousand in vet bills this is what I think having had him shod for 10yrs and barefoot for the last 2yrs.

Barefoot is the best way to get them better quickest, my boy's main problem was foot balance, not only had the heels become underrun so he couldn't balance on them, the heels were also different heights side to side mean the foot balance was seriously bad and put stress on his joints, you could see his coronet bands were wonky. Because it took me so long to understand the problem and the feet had plenty of time to get out of kilter, it took a long time to rebalance the foot and although the heels are really good now they will never be able to completely recover from the damage as we can't get them back that last little bit right under him if that makes sense.

If you have caught this quickly your horse will recover much faster with no shoes if you use a decent qualified podiatrist or if your farrier understands the benefit of not having under run heels. The stress to his joints caused my beautiful horse to end up with mild hock spavins which is why I stress speed is of the essence. You don't want to corrrect the problem fast but you want to get the process started for recovery slowly but surely to avoid joint problems.

As for TB feet, I do understand, but even if you can give him a few months out of shoes the stimulation will help the damage grow out more quickly. My friend has huge TB's and Warmbloods barefoot but the diet is key, i.e., no sugar! You can buy pads and hoofcasts from podiatry supplies which will stop the footsoreness whilst allowing the fot to flex and get stimulation. You would be shocked at how quickly the foot changes.

Many on here can providse useful advice on diet and how to help him with foot soreness, walking him on a sand surface also really helps this too. Best of luck, having been in your situation it is horrid, but I am so glad I took my horses shoes off, he has finally come sound this month after 18mths of a nightmare. You could just take the back 2 off for starters rather than go the whole hog at once.
 
Soundness is a whole other story and the feet themselves are a nightmare but... with regards to sorting collapsed heels. Pics are 10 weeks apart going barefoot with boots and pads. Graduated bar shoes and pads worsened them.

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Edited to say... As mentioned above by Ester. I have now put him in easycare shoes which are worth looking at if you don't think he will cope totally without shoes with the hard ground. I am using them as a temporary measure though in the full knowledge that they will be slowing down his recovery though hopefully not reversing it. He's not in work.

Also... when you say he's sore. He's lame... stop jumping him- it's not worth a potentially permanent broken down horse.
 
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I imagine if you have a sole shot the heel bulbs are looking less pinched now too Michen?

OP please just give it some consideration, it certainly won't be the easiest route but if you plan on keeping the horse long term I think it is worth thinking about as I think bars/pads will just patch up in the short term. Once better there is nothing to stop you shoeing for competing again and just trying to give them a break every year to keep them good.
 
ester said:
I imagine if you have a sole shot the heel bulbs are looking less pinched now too Michen?

OP please just give it some consideration, it certainly won't be the easiest route but if you plan on keeping the horse long term I think it is worth thinking about as I think bars/pads will just patch up in the short term. Once better there is nothing to stop you shoeing for competing again and just trying to give them a break every year to keep them good.
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Oooh I don't know about that. They look pretty awful. Hang on a jiffy and I'll put some pics up from the easycare shoeing. My farrier will kill me as he's mortified by how messy the glue looks (it was a nightmare getting them on) hehe. He also trimmed away loads of the heel.. Really trimmed it. Whether that was a good thing or not I do not know...
 
Sorry OP I am a horrendously dirty thread hyjaker but these may help you.. Are your horses heels under run like this- can you see the way they are folded under the sole?

Ester- This was a few months ago

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A week ago pre and post trim. I was very sceptical about the heels being trimmed like that but actually two EP's told me it needed doing as well (though never did it....!?!)

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They make me depressed
 
Interesting though, I suspect the long heels= not engaging back of foot= limited progress on that bit so far (the last bit is the important comment ;) )

I suspect if he had say been on the tracks at Rockley he might have trimmed them down himself, but in boots he can't really so has needed them doing for him. Is he more comfy in the shoes now than was?
 
ester said:
Interesting though, I suspect the long heels= not engaging back of foot= limited progress on that bit so far (the last bit is the important comment ;) )

I suspect if he had say been on the tracks at Rockley he might have trimmed them down himself, but in boots he can't really so has needed them doing for him. Is he more comfy in the shoes now than was?
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He's weird... he seems "careful". Not sore just careful and slow but not in the way he is when I know he's sore- it's hard to describe. My guess is that the shoes are probably comfy for him but the trim probably wasn't. They will be re done in 3 weeks if, when we take them off and compare photos, they haven't had a negative effect on his growth. However I'm getting some new x rays done on friday as I want to see whether that navicular bone has worsened (it was fine in jan) and if the foot balance/soles are any better.... I imagine not!
 
My horse's feet looked great but sadly he did his suspensory earlier this year. He had X-rays on all 4 feet during diagnosis and he came back that he needed his heels raising to prevent this happening again. He is now in a full set of wedges- no bars or sole packs- and is much happier. The first day he had them on he thought he was Valegro and was doing airs above ground so obviously feeling much better! No shoes just isn't an option as we event and there's no question of me going xc without studs and I also do a lot of road work. Maybe it would be worth getting some X-rays done so you can balance him such as with wedges?
 
Is the intention to keep the wedges on him full time or to give him a break in winter? I'm surprised eventing is a current consideration if he did a suspensory earlier this year.

Even most vets seem to agree that wedges just crush whatever heel is there further.
 
I certainly would have had X-rays as soon as problems started .
I don't think there's any way to help out this issue except shoes off , trim regularity and let the horse grow a new set of heels / foot .
No one would expect a horse whose suspensory was making him not want to jump on grass to just be strapped up and keep going .
If his hind heels are poor and his toes long your one step away from suspensory damage in the hind legs which is a disaster IME.
 
He'll be keeping the wedges on full time and no he's definitely not eventing right at this point! He's currently going through rehab so work on hard ground to condition his legs. The vet thinks he will event later this year but I'm going to save him for next year now. The injury was to his fore leg and was found straight away with a very good prognosis. My previous horse had bad TB feet and he had sole packs and straight bars which worked for him but was a completely different problem as he had navicular issues. My mare also struggles with crumbly feet but she's retired and she just stays on Biotin which has helped her get the growth she needs. In my experience I have been lead by the vet after X-Rays who have then liaised directly with my remedial farrier.
 
The problem with wedges (and bar shoes) is that they generally make the back half of the hoof worse. So the heels squish, contract and under-run more. I still hope that more vets and farriers become aware of the work and research at Rockley and that people stop believing the 'there's nothing you can do as the horse has typical TB feet' lie. TB's can have wonderful quality horn and correctly balanced hooves. IME biotin alone isn't enough to help many horses, what could be loosely described as a barefoot approved supplement - such as the forage plus ones - help a lot more and can transform the horn quality.
 
Michen said:
Oooh I don't know about that. They look pretty awful. Hang on a jiffy and I'll put some pics up from the easycare shoeing. My farrier will kill me as he's mortified by how messy the glue looks (it was a nightmare getting them on) hehe. He also trimmed away loads of the heel.. Really trimmed it. Whether that was a good thing or not I do not know...
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As long as he matched a reduction in toe height, it was a good thing. He is, I am pretty sure, trying to give the horse the maximum amount of frog contact with the ground that he can. By putting on the shoes, he has been able to take the heel right back to where the tubules are straight. I think you might find that will accelerate the improvement in the heels, provided you have them redone on a very frequent basis to keep the ground contact. Since there aren't any nail holes with glue on shoes, I'd be shoeing him every three weeks if he was mine, then leaving the last set six before going barefoot again.
 
Rosesandhorses said:
He'll be keeping the wedges on full time and no he's definitely not eventing right at this point! He's currently going through rehab so work on hard ground to condition his legs. The vet thinks he will event later this year but I'm going to save him for next year now. The injury was to his fore leg and was found straight away with a very good prognosis. My previous horse had bad TB feet and he had sole packs and straight bars which worked for him but was a completely different problem as he had navicular issues. My mare also struggles with crumbly feet but she's retired and she just stays on Biotin which has helped her get the growth she needs. In my experience I have been lead by the vet after X-Rays who have then liaised directly with my remedial farrier.
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You have had three horses worse problems can be directly related to foot condition and foot condition is strongly related to diet. I would suggest that you have your grass tested for imbalance and supplement accordingly, and if you don't already, to feed a high fibre/no added sugar diet and consider soaked forage.
 
ycbm said:
As long as he matched a reduction in toe height, it was a good thing. He is, I am pretty sure, trying to give the horse the maximum amount of frog contact with the ground that he can. By putting on the shoes, he has been able to take the heel right back to where the tubules are straight. I think you might find that will accelerate the improvement in the heels, provided you have them redone on a very frequent basis to keep the ground contact. Since there aren't any nail holes with glue on shoes, I'd be shoeing him every three weeks if he was mine, then leaving the last set six before going barefoot again.
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He's on a 4 week cycle. Or rather 3 weeks and 6 days! We shall see... I'm hoping perhaps one more cycle and try them off again but I am prepared to keep him in them until autumn if needs be.
 
Michen said:
He's on a 4 week cycle. Or rather 3 weeks and 6 days! We shall see... I'm hoping perhaps one more cycle and try them off again but I am prepared to keep him in them until autumn if needs be.
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We've pmd and you know I'm fan of barefoot, but I agree with what you are doing with this horse. He is not an easy case.
 
Rosesandhorses said:
He'll be keeping the wedges on full time and no he's definitely not eventing right at this point! He's currently going through rehab so work on hard ground to condition his legs. The vet thinks he will event later this year but I'm going to save him for next year now. The injury was to his fore leg and was found straight away with a very good prognosis. My previous horse had bad TB feet and he had sole packs and straight bars which worked for him but was a completely different problem as he had navicular issues. My mare also struggles with crumbly feet but she's retired and she just stays on Biotin which has helped her get the growth she needs. In my experience I have been lead by the vet after X-Rays who have then liaised directly with my remedial farrier.
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I guess I didn't see why he needed the wedges/shoes now if not competing. I completely understand the need for studs when competing but think that feet have a remarkable ability to get better if we let them. My lad had reverse rotated pedal bones and low heels and my vet said he would only put wedges on anything short term as it always stops working/makes the situation after a time. And yes, his shoes did come off.
 
The reason he's got wedges on when he's not competing is to lift the heels and stop the suspensory injury from happening again. The confirmation issue meant he was predisposed to this. As he's in rehab this is important to ensure he recovers properly. My horses definitely do not have dietry issues! As I said one had navicular which is a completely different kettle of fish, the other has developed cushings and is in her twenties- I've owned her nearly all her life and she never had a lame day until she retired.
 
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Fair enough, we have one with a suspensory injury but chose to use the time to give her feet a break too as she had 6 months box rest anyway. Shod and working now anyway and I can see some benefit to lifting the back of the hoof for an acute injury I'd be surprised if there was any benefit long term.

Re. the dietary issues, hooves are a generally considered a product of what you put in and it has been observed that some hooves are a lot more sensitive to dietary minerals and sugar intake than others, often TBs who once this is right turn out to have great feet. You said one had typical tb (ie poor) feet so not an entirely different kettle of fish at all- particularly as navicular is mostly defined as heel pain, long toes, collapsed under run heels- all the things being discussed here!
For example on our limestone calcium levels in the grass are off the scale so magnesium and phosphorous are supplemented accordingly although it isn't an exact science.
 
I completely understand that feet are a product of what you put in nutritionally but I know in my case this was not the issue. The reason I know this is because I only had the TB horse in question a very brief time before this came up. He also had fragmented navicular bones in both fore legs which we found on MRI when he went to Newmarket to have investigations. My horses couldn't want for anything and I'm lucky to be in the position to make sure they have everything they need and that is how I know this wasn't the issue in this case. I am not for a single second saying that this isn't the cause of a lot of lameness issues I just know in my case this isn't the cause.
 
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