Colour Confusion!!!

[Toz]

Hi
I thought I had a not completely dreadful knowledge of horse colours... But I think it turns out I am very confused...

So please tell me: What is the difference between brown, bay, dark bay, and chesnut? I now have no clue!!

Thanks very much, and piccies would be nice if possible

 

[Toz]

Bump

 

[kerrieberry2]

brown is bay! chestnut is ginger!

 

[TrasaM]

Is brown used for racehorses when they are almost black? Just remembering that there was a filly I liked at the races and she was listed as brown but was almost black.

 

[Fools Motto]

Is brown used for racehorses when they are almost black? Just remembering that there was a filly I liked at the races and she was listed as brown but was almost black.

But, there is dark brown for that!???

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Technically a purebred TB can't be black as the colour didn't exist in them. It has been bred in now but that is more in the non-tb's. To all intents and purposes they look black, they are black, they tend to have a brown muzzle though, and are classed as brown.

Dark bay is a very dark brown coat with a black mane and tail and black legs.

A bay is a lighter brown coloured body with a black mane, tail and legs.

Chestnuts are brown all over- mane, tail, body colour. They come in all different shades of ginger but they are the same colour all over, bar socks and facial markings and the likes.

I'll try and find a pic of the 'black' tb I ride.

Dark Bay TB:

'Black' TB:

 

[Love]

There are 2 base colours in which every horse is one of them. They are black (aa) and chestnut (ee)

Chestnuts come in different shades but are genetically the same (I think?)

Bay horses are caused by the agouti gene (A) combined with the black gene (making Aa or AA) it dilutes the black pigment to brown apart from the points and mane and tail.

Brown is caused by a different form of the agouti gene At

Hope that helps!

 

[TrasaM]

Thank you EKW. Now I understand I think. It's all a bit- Q when is a black horse a brown horse? A. When its a TB

 

[DabDab]

No, black is a different colour from brown (or seal brown). Brown horses look black apart from a 'mealy' colour around their soft parts (muzzle, behind the elbows, stiffle area etc.), whereas black horses are black all over. Chestnuts are ginger (either light or dark), and bays are brown with black points. Dark bays are the same as bays, but their coat is more of a mahogany colour. They are distinct from seal brown because you can see the brown colouring all over, rather than just on their soft parts. Here are links to photos - in order they are dark bay, seal brown, bay and chestnut.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?sa=X...rt=0&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0&tx=726&ty=482

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?star...page=5&tbnh=183&tbnw=246&ndsp=23&tx=194&ty=43

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?rlz=...nh=175&tbnw=188&start=11&ndsp=25&tx=164&ty=88

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?rlz=...bnh=187&tbnw=232&start=0&ndsp=14&tx=115&ty=77

 

[Spring Feather]

The black gene is EE for homozygous black. Ee for heterozygous black.

There are true black TBs. I own two. To have them registered black for TB you have to have them colour DNAd (which mine have been) and they are both registered black. Mine are purebred TBs with complete and full pedigrees going back centuries. The black colour has always existed in the TB breed but I believe there used to be some superstition about racing a black horse so most black TBs were previously mis-registered as bay or brown.

Here are the Weatherbys accepted colours for TBs - http://www.weatherbys.co.uk/sites/default/files/Identification of Horses Booklet.pdf

 

[hairycob]

Surely if black didn't exist in TBs you couldn't have bay or am I being too simplistic?

 

[Love]

Surely if black didn't exist in TBs you couldn't have bay or am I being too simplistic?

This is just a guess and going purely off the science not fact but if all the bays were homozygous (AA) then it would be possible to have bays and no black TB horses

 

[Dizzleton]

Or they could be like my bright bay - All bay with no black points apart from mane and tail!

 

[Love]

Or they could be like my bright bay - All bay with no black points apart from mane and tail!

Could they be a wild bay? Or even chestnut? My friend has a chestnut mare but because her mane and tail are so much darker than her body she can look bay at a glance. But has no black points.

 

[Mardy Mare]

I thought bays were brown horses with black manes, tails and legs, and brown horses were brown all over with brown legs, manes and tails.

Chesnuts to me are either chesnut or liver chesnut with the same colour mane and tails or flaxen manes and tails.

 

[Dizzleton]

Could they be a wild bay? Or even chestnut? My friend has a chestnut mare but because her mane and tail are so much darker than her body she can look bay at a glance. But has no black points.

He has been classes as wild bay before. But he is registered as bright bay.

I know he has boots on - but this is his colour

 

[Bobbly]

He has been classes as wild bay before. But he is registered as bright bay.

I know he has boots on - but this is his colour

He just looks light bay not bright bay to me, he has black in all the right places just not pronounced colouring on his legs.

 

[Dizzleton]

This is him as a foal/youngster