Colour experts - what colour is my pony?

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BBP

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Usually referred to as the bonkers black pony, his passport says he is bay, but i wondered if there is a technical colour term for his colour.
In summer he is the colour of 70% dark chocolate, winter he is much blacker. He has red highlights in his mane and tail. His belly is flecked with lots of white hair, and he has a silver foreleg, loads of white hair amongst the black. His ears are tipped with red and lined with coffee colour. And he has a dorsal stripe along his back.

Pictures:
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To show his highlights!
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Is he just brown??!!
 
He looks black to me. But Bay does cover Dark Bay which to all intents and purposes is often Black too. The definition of Bay as opposed to Black is the colour of the muzzle - if that is a lighter brown - then he is Bay/ brown as opposed to Black.
 
dressedkez said:
He looks black to me. But Bay does cover Dark Bay which to all intents and purposes is often Black too. The definition of Bay as opposed to Black is the colour of the muzzle - if that is a lighter brown - then he is Bay/ brown as opposed to Black.
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But does he have black ear rims and black knees/hocks to make him bay?
 
Nose is permanently very black, that it never changes! Just wondered if the dorsal stripe (no good photos but it is often quite obvious) means he is something funky like a faded black, but i don't understand these things. Not that it matters, i'm just nosy!
 
OOooh! I like that!:D

You don't say how old he is. You mention a dorsal stripe? Is there Highland in his ancestry? He could easily end up white! Sorry, but I'd just call him black!

I've two black Highland foals here now, one is rapidly going light and will probably be a dappled grey before eventually going completely white (grey dun) in perhaps 6 - 8 years time.

The other is still too young to tell, but both parents are grey duns (white). This one is a half sister to the first.
 
There is a Canadian breed which is his sort of colour, which especially has the red highlights in mane and tail. Any chance of a throwback?
 
Do you know the colour of his parents? In the absence of knowing that I would say he is very dark liver chestnut (in his lightest pic his legs are tinged brown so not bay).
 
Could be Smoky Black !
That's black plus one copy of the cream gene (the gene that turns chestnut to palomino, bay to buckskin, black to smoky black with one copy, and chestnut to cremello, bay to perlino and black to smoky cream with 2 copies.)
I had a mare who was registered as black on her passport. She kept changing shade from almost jet black to dark chocolate. Black "points" were visible when she was chocolate coloured. She had a lot of cream hairs around her eyes, muzzle, ears and under her tail, plus some on her flanks and belly, but these only showed up in certain light conditions.
I always meant to have her tested for the cream gene, but she died before I had the chance. She DID have a palomino foal by a bay stallion though ! Stallion had only ever sired bays and chestnuts, but my mare had palomino and buckskin (NOT DUN) half siblings by the same sire.
Might be worth testing your gorgeous boy for cream. :)
 
jojo5 said:
There is a Canadian breed which is his sort of colour, which especially has the red highlights in mane and tail. Any chance of a throwback?
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The Canadian? Comes generally in black, but there are also dilutes, some breeders are, of course, breeding specifically for dilute now. One of those cultivated 'breeds' that was mixed with others to create what was needed.
 
Interesting comments thanks guys! In his passport it says his sire is a black pre called Danes Fiel (although someone on here told me the stallion went white, can't find any pictures of him so don't know) dam was written as bay, dark. She was half pre and half Welsh b. Two grey grandparents and 2 bay ones. He is 7 now so think he will stay this colour. If he has a hidden highland relative it is well hidden, his bone is so tiny I can almost touch my fingers together around his cannon bone!
 
Very very dark bay. The sun dyes the coat of our 'black' mare in a similar fashion. Her mane and tail and points are definitely darker (black) She has brown on her muzzle and flanks. The roaning on the leg can happen in any horse. I have seen a few - usually on injured legs, oddly enough.
 
Don't be sorry. I'm just looking into if copper deficiency has any other effects as he is fit, shiny and full of the joys of life, so don't want to go adding anything without a little research, wasn't something I knew about. No injury to the silver leg, its very pretty though!
 
Smokey black. The red highlights are almost certainly sun damage unless he also has them in winter, in which case copper deficiency is a (faint) possibility. The dilutes are common in both PRE and welsh. Copper is pretty toxic so don't go flinging copper at him, willy nilly.
 
LittleWildOne said:
Could be Smoky Black !
That's black plus one copy of the cream gene (the gene that turns chestnut to palomino, bay to buckskin, black to smoky black with one copy, and chestnut to cremello, bay to perlino and black to smoky cream with 2 copies.)
I had a mare who was registered as black on her passport. She kept changing shade from almost jet black to dark chocolate. Black "points" were visible when she was chocolate coloured. She had a lot of cream hairs around her eyes, muzzle, ears and under her tail, plus some on her flanks and belly, but these only showed up in certain light conditions.
I always meant to have her tested for the cream gene, but she died before I had the chance. She DID have a palomino foal by a bay stallion though ! Stallion had only ever sired bays and chestnuts, but my mare had palomino and buckskin (NOT DUN) half siblings by the same sire.
Might be worth testing your gorgeous boy for cream. :)
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I thought that but he has dark eyes and smokey blacks always have pale eyes.
 
Cortez said:
Smokey black. The red highlights are almost certainly sun damage unless he also has them in winter, in which case copper deficiency is a (faint) possibility. The dilutes are common in both PRE and welsh. Copper is pretty toxic so don't go flinging copper at him, willy nilly.
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Parents are black and bay/dark brown. Also doesn't have the tell tale pale eyes.
 
The copper deficiency is interesting as lambs born on my own farm had a reddish tinge to their wool. Then I got the soil analysed and found it was deficient in copper and cobalt.

Soil tests are not cheap, but you might have a word with your farming neighbours and see what they say. Sometimes deficiencies extend over an area and everyone will have a similar problem so a neighbour might know. The problem is easily solved by supplying a free access Red Rocky salt block anyway.
 
The soil tests I had done showed that we were low on everything but very low in copper and zinc. I give equimins advance complete to all mine now and my bay horse is now black and the tb has put so much weight on he looks great and coping now without shoes.
It was v interesting seeing the results
 
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