Colour genetics question

depends on what the stallion has had before, ive known two greys to have a dun, a dun and grey to have a bay, two greys to have a black, and a grey and a bay to have a straberry roan. it all depends on the stallions past colours.
 
Depends on the underlying colour of the grey - ie the colour it was born before it turned grey. It would have to have at least one chestnut gene (although this is recessive and therefore can be masked by other colours). So a horse born bay and turned grey, could theoretically produce a palomino foal if mated with a palomino IF it had a recessive chestnut gene. The chances increase if the horse was born chestnut (which means it has two chestnut genes to pass on).

The complicating factor is that if the greying factor is passed on then the foal will grey out as it grows up. If the horse is homozygous for grey (ie contains two grey genes) then the resulting foal will definitely grey out later. If only heterozygous (contains one grey gene) then a chance that foal will not grey out and will remain palomino.

I think that is roughly correct from my sketchy memory, but am sure others will put me right if its wrong! If I have a minute will try and work out some percentage chances for you.
 
Grey is a dominant colour so you are 50% chance of getting a grey (25% chance of Grey carrying Chestnut and 25% chance of Grey carrying Cremello), other than that it depends what other colour the grey stallion carries!
Like I know my grey stallion carries chestnut then I would have a 25% chance of a Chestnut (Chestnut gene from Stallion and Chestnut gene from dam) and 25% chance of a palomino (Chestnut gene from stallion and Cremello gene from dam).
 
No idea about the underlying colour of the grey, but could certainly contact the stud about the parentage of the stallion.
Thanks TGM....find all this genetic stuff fascinating to be honest, something I'd certainly love to learn more about.

Bethxx
 
Palomino = chestnut + creme - that is, one chestnut gene (which is recessive to everything) and one creme gene.

Grey is dominant to everything so your grey could be anything at all

To get a cremello, the grey would have to be carrying at least one creme gene

to get a palomino, it need not carry anything as the creme could come from the palomino, and if the solid colour came from the grey, the options are

palomino (creme + chestnut)
buckskin (creme + bay)
Smoky black (Creme + black)

But frankly, if you don't want another grey, steer clear of greys... it may well be homozygous, that is, carry two copies of grey, in which case your lovely non-grey foal will be grey within a relatively short space of time.

if this is a connemara, pick one of the several very nice non-grey connemara stallions. Dark Stranger is charming and very nicely built (for instance).

E (who hates greys and wishes the Irish would learn colour genetics and stop confusing buckskins with duns....)
 
I'm afraid my writing was rather sloppy and hurried last night because I was about to be kicked off the computer! I wanted to clarify that when I said:

"So a horse born bay and turned grey, could theoretically produce a palomino foal if mated with a palomino IF it had a recessive chestnut gene."

the IT referred to the grey, not the palomino! So the grey would need to be carrying a chestnut gene. We already know the palomino has a chestnut gene because we can see that in its colour.

So you don't need to check up on the palomino stallion, as we can be pretty clear what colour genes he has, it is the grey that is the mystery. And unfortunately if you don't know her birth colour and have no idea of the colours of her ancestors, then you cannot predict the chances of her having a palomino foal. If she doesn't carry a chestnut gene then there is zero chance of her producing a palomino
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. (This is because chestnut is recessive and will only show in the horse's coat colour if the foal carries two chestnut genes (one from each parent), as if there is a bay/brown/black gene present it will dominate the chestnut one.)

I've just found this site:

http://www.equinecolor.com/color.html

which seems to explain colour genetics in quite a straightforward way.
 
Was half asleep when I read what you wrote anyway so didn't notice any perceived error
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As I understand it the grey gene is a dominant gene, hence(unless the chestnut gene is carried) the most likely outcome would be a foal with the propensity to go grey!?!
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Not quite. The grey gene is a seperate gene to the colour gene. It is either on or off. Grey horses still have their 2 underlying base colours. If you put a grey horse to a non grey horse you have 50% chance of grey. The other 50% will give a colour based on the grey horses unseen colour genes mixed with the non greys genes.
 
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If you put a grey horse to a non grey horse you have 50% chance of grey. The other 50% will give a colour based on the grey horses unseen colour genes mixed with the non greys genes.

[/ QUOTE ] That is true if the grey horse is heterozygous for grey (ie it has only one grey gene). If the horse is homozygous for grey (and has two grey genes) then it will always pass a grey gene onto the foal and because grey masks all other colours the foal will be grey. So if you breed froma homozygous grey horse then the result will always be grey! You can't tell whether a horse is homozygous by looking at it. You can get a clue by studying the horse's offspring but it is not conclusive - a stallion can throw 100 foals and 100 will be grey but you cannot guarantee that means he is homozygous, there is still a chance he is heterozygous! However, if a grey horse has one grey parent and one non-grey parent then he will definitely be heterozygous (because we know he can't have inherited two grey genes because one parent didn't have a grey gene to pass on).

Confused yet
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find all this genetic stuff fascinating to be honest, something I'd certainly love to learn more about.

Bethxx

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Its contagious!!! I love finding out about colour genetics as we were so bemused by Ivy. Sire is down on paper as "Bay" but his owner says dark dun (he's nearly black but not actually black) and I think technically if you were being more american about it he is an extremely smutty buckskin!!! Mare is bay. We get what appeared to be a cremello at birth but is actually a very pale palomino.

There are both "cream" and "palomino" horses in his pedigree which accounts for the cream gene, and as a bay, sire bay and dam I think was chestnut, mare has obviously passed on a chestnut gene, he has passed on cream, and we have a pally!

Though it is confusing as I know he has chestnut foals so he must have a chesnut gene too to pass it on..

So to confuse everyone more, have they both passed on chestnut genes and he has passed on cream as a dilution which has given palomino?


At least Asti is simple. She's a ginge, mother was a ginge, dad was grey so I had 50-50 chestnut or grey and it landed on ginger! And if I use the spotty stallion on her, his base color is ginge, I can get anything from a plain chestnut to a leopard spot and anything in between (blanket or few spot) all with a chestnut base.

Will be so interesting waiting to see just what it will look like!

It is fascinating!
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. or are we a bit sad and need to get out more???
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So to confuse everyone more, have they both passed on chestnut genes and he has passed on cream as a dilution which has given palomino?

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Yes.

I offered the H&H an article on colour genetics before the breeding season but they didn't want it...
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Will offer same to Horse Deals next year...

E
 
Well yes, it can't be denied that I spend too much time away from human company, but I still think it's fascinating nonetheless
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With regards to Ivy....in essence she is abit of an enigma....which I'm sure suits her just fine
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