Colour help please - bay/dun stripey markings??

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Bennions Field

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I have a little 'light bay' filly, she was born with a very prominent dorsal stripe and leg barring at the top of her forearms and also strong stipes over her withers. She's by a mahogany bay stallion with 'sooty' patches out of a homozygous black /heterozygous grey mare (currently v dark dapple grey at 5 years) who i know has black/bay and grey ancestry going back many generations.

i have just had the DNA results back for the foal who's tested negative for grey, and positive for bay as you would expect. but what about the stipes ??? at 10 weeks old she is loosing her foal coat slowly and looks to be staying a light bay colour with black mane and tail and black legs are slowly starting to show through the cream foal coat.

i know its early days and to be honest i dont mind what colour she ends up, she's adorable as she is, but i am intrigued where the stripes come from or mean and also what colour to register her as ????
pickies below of 1-2 weeks ago, 1-2 days old (Just make out feint striping on lower thigh) and one of her dad showing his colouring
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She's lovely!

But i think she is bay, any shading you are seeing will disappear with a more mature coat. Dorsal shading is not unknown in bays but it doesn't mean that the horse is dun
 
Is she spanish? Lots of bays in the spanish breed have 'shading' and/or 'leg stripes', people are calling them red duns but tbh they are bays.
 
Dark red dun possible.

Although I'm pretty certain she's going to go grey later: she looks like she's got the grey specs that are a good indication
 
Amaranta said:
Is she spanish? Lots of bays in the spanish breed have 'shading' and/or 'leg stripes', people are calling them red duns but tbh they are bays.
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great guess work ! yes she is a PRE, ie spanish, so perhaps she's just a spanish version of bay ? the guy at the DNA testing company, animal genetics said there wasnt a test for 'dun' but that they go on the stripes or markings.

think she's just going to be registered as bay, and leave it at that, either way she's turning a lovely colour :)
 
Kallibear said:
Dark red dun possible.

Although I'm pretty certain she's going to go grey later: she looks like she's got the grey specs that are a good indication
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unfortunatley the pictures dont show the colour around her eyes too well, they are actually a pale red/bay colour, there's not a white hair on her body, not even a star or anything. Ive just had the DNA test back today and it was negative for grey, my mare is only heterozygous so only had a 50/50 chance of passing on the grey gene. therefore whatever colour she is, she's going to stay that way :) its really exciting waiting to see what she'll end up like
 
She can't be dun, as dun (as opposed to buckskin, which is caused by the cream gene) is a simple dominant, meaning that at least one of her parents would have to be dun. It would be possible that the mare is, but as there are no duns in her ancestory, it would be highly unlikely. I would say that she is most definitely bay, and the stripes were just shading on her foal coat.
Lovely filly!!
 
Kallibear said:
Dark red dun possible.

Although I'm pretty certain she's going to go grey later: she looks like she's got the grey specs that are a good indication
Click to expand...

It would be impossible to get a chestnut (red dun) from that gene pool. Black is dominant over red, and the mare is double black, so even if the stallion was carrying the red gene, it would not be expressed. The bay gene is separate again.

As the filly has been tested for grey, and tested negative, it is also impossible for her to go grey.

I love colour genetics, next question!!
 
thanks everyone, think i'm going with the simple option of Bay on her registration :) interesting about the dun gene being dominant. I'm not sure what genes my mares dam had, she was a light grey when i saw her with my mare as a foal in spain. my mares stallion was black and if i remember right had a black and bay parent? obviously the grey colour they get registered 'hides' quite a few colours behind the registration, so who knows what lies beneath ???

thank for your nice comments on the filly, she truly is delightfull, such a little sweetie, and very feminine, my last foal (who's now 20!) was such a little devil in disguise ! and Squizzel is soooo much nicer to handle and look after :) cant wait to see the finished coat colour :)
 
monkstc01 said:
thanks everyone, think i'm going with the simple option of Bay on her registration :) interesting about the dun gene being dominant. I'm not sure what genes my mares dam had, she was a light grey when i saw her with my mare as a foal in spain. my mares stallion was black and if i remember right had a black and bay parent? obviously the grey colour they get registered 'hides' quite a few colours behind the registration, so who knows what lies beneath ???

thank for your nice comments on the filly, she truly is delightfull, such a little sweetie, and very feminine, my last foal (who's now 20!) was such a little devil in disguise ! and Squizzel is soooo much nicer to handle and look after :) cant wait to see the finished coat colour :)
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Just to add that I do not think she will turn grey - her legs are not black (or don't appear to be) so as the owner of 6 greys I am very very jealous!
 
monkstc01 said:
great guess work ! yes she is a PRE, ie spanish, so perhaps she's just a spanish version of bay ? the guy at the DNA testing company, animal genetics said there wasnt a test for 'dun' but that they go on the stripes or markings.

think she's just going to be registered as bay, and leave it at that, either way she's turning a lovely colour :)
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A sort of educated guess lol - the stallion gave it away :D
 
UC Davis in the USA have been researching dun in the Iberian breeds for several years. They did come up with a dun zygosity test for other breeds, but not Iberians. There are a number of PRE breeders in the UK who are participating in the research, but it appears that dun in the PRE isn't as cut and dried as it is in other breeds!
 
templewood said:
UC Davis in the USA have been researching dun in the Iberian breeds for several years. They did come up with a dun zygosity test for other breeds, but not Iberians. There are a number of PRE breeders in the UK who are participating in the research, but it appears that dun in the PRE isn't as cut and dried as it is in other breeds!
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really interesting templewood. i have seen a couple of PRE's advertised for sale and described as 'Red Dunn' and thought myself there wasnt such a colour, but perhaps there may be afterall in the PRE? I still think i will go with a simple bay on her paperwork, i dont think she will mind what she's registered as and she does look bay with it appears a sligtly sooty appearance in places, her coats come out a little more over the last few days and it appears she's going to be quite a bit darker over the top of her face and her legs look like they are going to be black well past her knees and hocks. cant wait to see the finished result :)
 
whirlwindhorses said:
Lovely foal :) , she is bay with counter shading. I have a bay purebred Arab mare who has a dorsal stripe and leg stripes, so did her foal last year.
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thanks wwh, i think the stallion has certainly improved on my mare, so exactly what i wanted him to do :) did your mare retain her leg stripes when she shed her foal coat? think my little girlie is going to loose them as her legs look like they are going to be very dark/black quite high up. its amazing how much they change colour.
 
Amaranta said:
A sort of educated guess lol - the stallion gave it away :D
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he is realy true to type !, his temprement really really impressed me, he was soooo calm and really lovely with my mare when she was there last year. the filly is only his second foal on the ground and first pure bred, i'm really pleased with the result especially given its my mares first foal.
 
monkstc01 said:
thanks wwh, i think the stallion has certainly improved on my mare, so exactly what i wanted him to do :) did your mare retain her leg stripes when she shed her foal coat? think my little girlie is going to loose them as her legs look like they are going to be very dark/black quite high up. its amazing how much they change colour.
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She is 13 this year and still has them.

Zzzkatielegstripes.JPG
 
second the WOW ! and she looks a lovely rich colour too, perhaps its because both the arab and andalusian are such old breeds they have retained so much of the 'wild' horse colourings ???
 
wow aren't they striking, very definate striping / dorsal lines, they are much lighter colour than Squizzel but then they will finish up darker i should think, they look lovely by the way :) especially love the face of the first one, beautifull !

the way she's going at the moment it wont be long before her coats through, she's suddenly started loosing it quickly, its exciting to see what she will end up. i have the same each spring with her dam, she's gone from jet black at 6 months when i brought her to starting to grey out at 3 then the last two years has had slightly more and more grey and now is a beautifull dark dapple grey, exactly what i wanted when i brought her, and each year she changes a little more, its like having a new horse every spring :)
 
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