Comments on condition/cc?

[Puddock]

Would be very grateful if anyone feels like taking the time to comment on my boy's condition or confo - I know what I think about both, but would appreciate others' opinions! A bit of background - he is a 16.3hh, 19 year old DWB (yes, really, I have his papers - am aware he doesn't look the more modern type of KWPN ). I'd say he's normally in a medium level of work - schools properly 3/4 times a week for an hour, hacks out twice and is lunged once. He is returning from an enforced six week break though. Finally, I know his confo isn't the greatest, but it probably doesn't have much bearing on what we do, would just appreciate opinions so I can learn more Here he is,, big thanks t,o anyone who replies:

 

[stroppy]

I'm awful at Confromation, but I will say he looks lovely and very well for 19! my 18yo doesn't look it either! i would have said he was welsh had you not said otherwise

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

What a handsome lad - can't believe he's 19! You wouldn't want him any fatter than that - he could probably comfortably lose 30kg but if he's just returning to work after a break then it should soon go. Is there a problem with his near side hind? To me he looks a lovely sort, honest, intelligent face. Impossible to tell really from a couple of pics but has he been a bit depressed with whatever injury caused his time off work? He looks a little tired and switched off. Lovely lad - give him a hug from me x

 

[Puddock]

Thanks Stroppy - he appears to have a mental age of 4, so that's probably where it comes from lol. A lot of people say he looks ID or IDx, so welsh makes for an interesting change! He's got a lot of gelderlander in his breeding, so probably more of a carthorse than your typical modern wb.

 

[Puddock]

Box of Frogs - how appropriate that you should reply! The name of the grumpy old man in question is Frog (he came to me with that name). I agree that he is looking overweight - I panicked this evening after riding when I really had to prod to feel a rib. Hence the pictures and asking you lovely HHOers for opinions. I sincerely hope it comes off with work, I don't want him to go into summer like that. He wasn't off through injury - he had 3 weeks off due to the amount of snow we had (it was dangerous to do anything other than getting them from yard to field and even that was a military operation) and then another 3 due to me being away. Thought it'd do him good, but he is looking rather portly! The reason he is looking so miserable is that he has a firm belief that when all your tack is taken off in the school after you have been working hard, you should be allowed to roll (a rare treat he sometimes gets indulged with), not stand around while some idiot prods your fat belly and takes photos!

Re his near hind, that kind of falls under the confo q. Obviously you can't tell from these two rather poor photos, but he is very, very close behind (kind of like a Clydesdale or similar), and his back feet splay slightly. He is sound, though and my farrier does a great job of trimming what he has to work with. I think it's this you can see? He is also standing in one of his famously odd contorted positions, which doesn't help.

Thanks so much for your response as well, helps to confirm what I was thinking.

 

[FanyDuChamp]

Re your comment he doesn't look like a DWB. He looks like a throw back to one of the founding breeds of the DWB. The Groningen.

I think he is a bit pudgy but looking fantastic for 19.

FDC

 

[AmyMay]

He's such a handsome chap. Rather on the portly side though........

 

[Ranyhyn]

Pudgy belly-oooo! For returning to work he's exactly as I'd expect, get that off before the summer though

He's lovely, hope my boy looks as good at 19! x

 

[Puddock]

Thanks all - he'll actually be (gulp) 20 next month, but he doesn't seem much like a veteran to me. I find it hard to think of him that way - he certainly doesn't behave like an OAP!

I really want that belly off, he is already surviving on fresh air and not over-rugged at all. I am really stepping up the exercise (although don't want to push for too much, too quickly). Anyone any ideas for a fittening plan?

FDC - that's interesting, I am off to find out more about the Groningen now.

 

[FanyDuChamp]

Thanks Stroppy - he appears to have a mental age of 4, so that's probably where it comes from lol. A lot of people say he looks ID or IDx, so welsh makes for an interesting change! He's got a lot of gelderlander in his breeding, so probably more of a carthorse than your typical modern wb.

He doesn't look like the CARRIAGE horse, the Gelderlander. More , as I said, the Groningen, which is more of a farm horse.

Sorry bit touchy about Gelderlanders, as my boy is a KWPN one and whilst they are, sometimes, carriage sport horses they most certainly were not breed as plough or cart horses, they were breed as carriage horses.


FDC

 

[LaurenBay]

He looks very shiny! He looks gorgeous too!

Maybe a lil porky but looks very good for his age

 

[Puddock]

FDC - I really didn't mean to cause offence, sorry

I didn't intend to be derogatory about Gelderlanders, although I don't think there is anything wrong with being a carthorse either before someone jumps on me

Frog (registered name Jaraak) has a LOT of Gelderlander in his recent pedigree - I think he's at least 5/8. Daddy is Wilhelmus and dam is Evalinda. He looks a lot more like one when he is carrying less weight and showing off his carriage-horse trot and high head carriage. He has does have short legs compared to his depth of girth, though, and even a little bit of feather I am often told he looks more like a horse built to pull than one built to ride. So he has a lot of Gelderlander in him - but appears to have lost a good bit of their elegance along the way IYSWIM? Hence the "carthorse" comment.

I didn't really know anything about Groningens, though, till I looked them up today - was really interesting.

I can be sensitive about my boys looks too, I have had people argue with me till they are blue in the face that he CANNOT be a registered DWB. But he is...

 

[Puddock]

Thanks Lauren, he is indeed a porkster at the moment hoping it will go over the next couple of months!

 

[eggs]

As others have said and you know he is a little overweight and missing a bit of topline which probably wasn't helped by his enforced rest.

His hocks don't look the best but wear and tear is allowable at his age!

 

[Puddock]

Thanks eggs - he is very, very close behind too. He is on cortaflex liquid to try to keep problems at bay and help out with his joints and we don't really jump, although I believe he used to be pretty good with a previous owner

 

[FanyDuChamp]

FDC - I really didn't mean to cause offence, sorry

I didn't intend to be derogatory about Gelderlanders, although I don't think there is anything wrong with being a carthorse either before someone jumps on me

Frog (registered name Jaraak) has a LOT of Gelderlander in his recent pedigree - I think he's at least 5/8. Daddy is Wilhelmus and dam is Evalinda. He looks a lot more like one when he is carrying less weight and showing off his carriage-horse trot and high head carriage. He has does have short legs compared to his depth of girth, though, and even a little bit of feather I am often told he looks more like a horse built to pull than one built to ride. So he has a lot of Gelderlander in him - but appears to have lost a good bit of their elegance along the way IYSWIM? Hence the "carthorse" comment.

I didn't really know anything about Groningens, though, till I looked them up today - was really interesting.

I can be sensitive about my boys looks too, I have had people argue with me till they are blue in the face that he CANNOT be a registered DWB. But he is...

Hey you did not offend me, I am very sensitive as my lad is my angel, so very over protective mummy. Also we have a lovely cart horse, Fany is a draft horse so not prejudiced against them, just a bit touchy about my little lad!

As to KWPN they CAN be quite a high proportion Gelderlander, because .
Actually Frog does look like he has a Gelderlander hair to me he does just not look as rangy as Gelderlanders, but that does not mean to say that he can't have their movement and head carriage. Especially as you say if he has feather, which they do only a little though, and looks like he is born to pull. Do you have issues getting him to engage behind and work from the back? As this can be an issue with Gelderlanders. This is the KWPN website and is really helpful.
http://www.kwpn.org/

Hope that helps,
FDC


This is Captain, he is graded and branded KWPN Gelders Paard (Gelderlander) :

Please excuse condition of him, he had just come out of winter and this was taken to see if his new feed/ exercise regime works.

Not my lad but also a Gelderlander but this is how he looks moving.

 

[Anne_GTI]

KWPN has three sections; sporthorses (dressage/jumping are split also) Gelderse and Harnesshorses. Since this horse is a descendant from Wilhelmus it would place him in the last catagory. He cerainly looks that way.

I would forget about the groninger; They look and move different.

Training plan for this horse would be training the abs with lots of transitions with a low neck and constantly training the hindleg.

@ Fanny; yours looks like a Gelderse, not a carigehorse, just plain Gelders. The basis of Gelders was a working horse on the lighter sandgrounds, which had to look atractive for a carige to go to church on sunday and under the saddle of the farmboys in competition. Allround horses with good character.

Groningers desent from the heavy claycrounds and had to be stronger in order to pull the plow. They have relatively shorter legs and are heavier than the average Gelderse.

This is a modern Groninger http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTW5HmprHiXHrzTktgl6hpziC_0Wdq4B2_Lb4n6QCb4zbn2ymOe0Q

And a harnessstallion from the same bloodlines as the horse of TS http://www.hhgebrvanmanen.com/WebStuff/images/atleet1.jpg

 

[FanyDuChamp]

KWPN has three sections; sporthorses (dressage/jumping are split also) Gelderse and Carigehorses. Since this horse is a descendant from Wilhelmus it would place him in the last catagory. He cerainly looks that way.

I would forget about the groninger; They look and move different.

Training plan for this horse would be training the abs with lots of transitions with a low neck and constantly training the hindleg.

That is a much better explanation. Although I do think he looks a bit like Groninger.

This is a Groninger

FDC

 

[Puddock]

Fany, your boy does indeed look like an angel - it's those big puppy dog eyes that do it. He is a stunning colour, too. Thanks so much for taking the time to reply and all the info.

And yes, pretty much everything you have said applies. It can be very difficult to get Frog to engage his hindquarters, but when he does, boy do you feel it! At some point in his past he has been very well-schooled and when fit his lateral work etc is decent. Someone's taken the time to teach him things like reinback to canter and canter to halt, too. He can be a spooky, silly, stress head at times, but the moment anything he does results in his rider becoming unbalanced he will slow down or stop to let you haul yourself back into place. He means the world to me.

Anne - thank you so much for the info. I knew there were sport horses and an "other" section of the register, but was unaware how the horses were categorised within that section. I find it all fascinating. And yes, long and low is our aim over the next couple of months, with some ridden pole work and long lining to help. :

 

[Ranyhyn]

As for fittenning, long walks for weeks, on decent ground or roadwork, building up the legs and puff. After about 3/4 weeks you can start introducing a little trot on good ground for a fortnight, etc with a short canter after another fortnight and build up everything slowly The focus being on getting his puff better and taking him less time to recover after bursts of trot etc

I am by no means a fitness expert

 

[Ranyhyn]

Scratch that, just seen your post about what you are currently doing! x

 

[Puddock]

Thanks, Kitsune, it's still useful to get ideas of what to do outside. Trying to fit a good bit of roadwork in at weekends, but I usually have to spend most of the time trying to avoid our local shoot which is always out on a sat morning. Basically, we have to pass them at some point to get anywhere! I daren't long rein outside, as he's just too spooky to be safe. So it will be lots of PROPER walking on rather than just meandering around to try and improve both our fitness levels.

Just bought myself one of the ex-police hi viz jackets too, so will see if that helps out on the busier roads. Thanks again.

 

[MissMincePie&Brandy]

FDC - I really didn't mean to cause offence, sorry

I didn't intend to be derogatory about Gelderlanders, although I don't think there is anything wrong with being a carthorse either before someone jumps on me

Frog (registered name Jaraak) has a LOT of Gelderlander in his recent pedigree - I think he's at least 5/8. Daddy is Wilhelmus and dam is Evalinda. He looks a lot more like one when he is carrying less weight and showing off his carriage-horse trot and high head carriage. He has does have short legs compared to his depth of girth, though, and even a little bit of feather I am often told he looks more like a horse built to pull than one built to ride. So he has a lot of Gelderlander in him - but appears to have lost a good bit of their elegance along the way IYSWIM? Hence the "carthorse" comment.

I didn't really know anything about Groningens, though, till I looked them up today - was really interesting.

I can be sensitive about my boys looks too, I have had people argue with me till they are blue in the face that he CANNOT be a registered DWB. But he is...

I thought as soon as I saw him he looked a bit similar to mine - Gelderlander! The Gelderlander is a very elegant Dutch carriage horse (not a cart horse)

Mine has the attention span of a knat, and is a very a cheeky monkey, but is extremely intelligent, and when you have his attention, he learns incredible quickly.
This is my KWPN Gelderlander.

 

[frb]

The dutch warmbloods do tend to be silly all their lives. My Hanno looked amazing right up to the end of his twenty one years, and behaved like a four year old - never lost his spookiness or his condition.

Your boy looks very well, yes a little round so something to bear in mind as you obviously are coming into spring, but a lovely boy. I now have the opposite a imported dutch araby goodness knows what thing that I have to battle to get and keep condition on!

 

[FanyDuChamp]

I thought as soon as I saw him he looked a bit similar to mine - Gelderlander! The Gelderlander is a very elegant Dutch carriage horse (not a cart horse)

Mine has the attention span of a knat, and is a very a cheeky monkey, but is extremely intelligent, and when you have his attention, he learns incredible quickly.
This is my KWPN Gelderlander.

I am all excited , another KWPN Gelderlander! My lad is also extremely intelligent and learns fast but he does have a good attention span and has a fantastic work ethic. He is most certainly a cheeky monkey and has a sense of fun.He is an incredible stress head and can worry for England.The world's biggest woss as well! He is a poor doer and it is really difficult, near impossible, to get a really good top line on him. He is very cereal intolerant. Any of this similar to yours? He is 17 this year and is still like a 4 year old when he wants.

How long have you had him? Do you know his pedigree? They might be related. Mine is related to Parcival with El Corona and Amor as well.

FDC

 

[Puddock]

Lol Misinterpreted, I am regretting the carthorse comment now! I should have expressed myself better - I honestly meant that despite having lots of "proper" carriage horses in his pedigree, mine still looks a bit cart-horsey! I still love him tho. Your boy is absolutely stunning, I love his markings. What are your plans with him?

I've just dug Frog's registration papers out too - as Anne said earlier in the thread, despite having lots of Gelderlander blood, he is in fact registered as a Dutch Harness Horse (Tuigpaard), as were his sire and dam, as opposed to being in the Gelders section. I guess you learn something new every day - I really should pay more attention to these things!