maximoo
Well-Known Member
Why keep a horse uncut and kept as a stallion as it will not be used for breeding, not graded or registered as a stallion only kept for the fact that they compete a stallion ? would it not be better for it to be gelded
Competing a stallion
- Thread starter maximoo
- Start date
Auslander
Well-Known Member
Presumably because stallions often have more presence than geldings, and they are comfortable handling/riding an entire. I much prefer riding stallions to geldings
wingedhorse
Well-Known Member
I think there are relatively few top level dressage stallions for a reason. Most are geldings.
I thought there was a tendency for dressage stallions to be a bit lazier?
Auslander
Well-Known Member
That hasn't been my experience, and certainly on the continent, there are more stallions at the top levels than over here. I do believe that there are fewer stallions eventing, as they tend to be a bit too careful!
Elf On A Shelf
...
This is why so few entires go National Hunt Racing - they become too protective of themselves so don't jump as quickly and as fluently as you need.
There is a massive trend in M&M showing just now whereby everyone has to have a stallion. 75% of top level classes are now stallions. Of the 40 ponies that went to Olympia last year 32 were stallions. The closest most of these guys will get to a mare is when they have to stand next to one in a line up. There are many poor examiles of breeds winning beca use a judge feels the need to put a stallion above a mare or gelding.
rara007
Well-Known Member
Mine lives out in company with our geldings, what advantage would fairly major by this age (knock down, GA) surgery have for him? He is licenced with 2 stud books but so far not graded, I don't stand him at stud though he has several offspring from before. It's only his first season under saddle, at his second stay away show after a 5 hour journey he walked in a headcollar to his stable, less than an hour from being put there he was lying down asleep, that's the kind of stress levels he exhibits daily... Most of my riding club friends horses (ISH geldings chosen as quiet options) don't settle like he does! He's also 100% bold and self confident, hacks alone and in mixed company and rides more established than my mums 10 year old I've taken the ride on. Oh and he drives too, to crack it at hdt at his height and pace he needs the flamboyance of testosterone IMO. He may prove too quiet but he's already a proven allrounder if that doesn't pan out!
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meleeka
Well-Known Member
He sounds amazing, but sadly uncommon compared to the showing stallions I've known. Kept in stables most of the time, fed loads to make them gleam and that's about it. They are like coiled springs. It's no life really and I wouldn't keep a horse like this just for a rosette.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
I've always had stallions, some have covered, some have not, but I'd really rather have a stallion than a gelding any day. I realise that for the average hobby rider on a livery yard, it's probably not the best option, but the breed that I currently have are rarely gelded in their home country and have the most wonderful temperaments. I have gelded stallions on request when sold, but it often doesn't change the behaviours that much and takes away an awful lot of the horse's zest and character. If someone wants a stallion and has the sense and facilities to keep it well then I wouldn't feel moved to pass judgement.
nikkimariet
Well-Known Member
The UK in particular is a little hysterical about stallions.
If being entire doesn't detract from the handling and management and performance of the horse, then why does it matter? If the horse is a PITA to handle and has to have 'special rules' then yeah, probably get it cut and life will be easier for the rider/horse/groom and every other person around. But a lot of it comes down to management. Expect trouble and you usually get it!
It's not something I've ever really been interested in, in all honesty I think there's a lot of half baked stallions that really shouldn't be bred from because they're quite simply not good enough to breed from. Though, I think there's an awful lot more of half baked mares being bred from too.
If being entire doesn't detract from the handling and management and performance of the horse, then why does it matter? If the horse is a PITA to handle and has to have 'special rules' then yeah, probably get it cut and life will be easier for the rider/horse/groom and every other person around. But a lot of it comes down to management. Expect trouble and you usually get it!
It's not something I've ever really been interested in, in all honesty I think there's a lot of half baked stallions that really shouldn't be bred from because they're quite simply not good enough to breed from. Though, I think there's an awful lot more of half baked mares being bred from too.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Surely that is general management rather than a stallion issue though, no one 'has' to feed ther stallion loads, I would say that is a separate issue and that if they are owned by that sort of person they may not get a better deal being a gelding. In my limited experience across only a few breeds though that have been cut late do seem to have lost that 'something' they had when entire, so if you like them how they are why change it.
AdorableAlice
Well-Known Member
I know nothing about keeping or competing stallions and certainly can't see the point of keeping one unless it has plenty of jobs.
We were at a dressage competition a little while ago, a very attractive Arab caught my eye, which takes some doing because I can't bear Arabs. Liver chestnut going beautifully, focused and soft with an older petite lady on board. It had a little neigh and was on its toes going through the lorry park and I realised it was a stallion. The little horse was foot perfect all morning and far better mannered then many other horses on the ground.
We were at a dressage competition a little while ago, a very attractive Arab caught my eye, which takes some doing because I can't bear Arabs. Liver chestnut going beautifully, focused and soft with an older petite lady on board. It had a little neigh and was on its toes going through the lorry park and I realised it was a stallion. The little horse was foot perfect all morning and far better mannered then many other horses on the ground.
Michen
Well-Known Member
It's an interesting question. Mine was cut late and likely covered a few mares but has retained many of his stallion tendencies. Some of those are a very positive thing and others are a pain to deal with. He does have a certain edge, would he have had it if he wasn't cut late, who knows
maximoo
Well-Known Member
I thought the point of having a stallion was to have it graded with a stud book, so that it can breed and compete to proof that it is suitable for purpose and attract mare owners agree with melekaa to many kept alone and stabled not much of a life for just rosettes
planete
Well-Known Member
Breeding is not compulsory, either for intact males or females. Neither equines nor humans have an obligation to breed to justify their existence. As for the way the animals are managed, blame the owners for ignorance and poor standards. They probably would not be any better at managing geldings.
A lovely dressage stallion joined the yard I was at a few years ago. He was one of the best behaved horses there and could be handled by anybody. But then he had been bred and trained in Spain.
meleeka
Well-Known Member
One particular person I know has a Welsh D stallion. They also have mares and geldings, who live out 24/7 while the poor stallion comes out of his box for half an hour a day. Consequently he's a handful so has to be shown by one particular man. He's not an outstanding stallion either and hasn't ever covered a mare. When I questioned how much they were feeding him I was told you had to as all the other 3 year olds looked much more mature and were carrying more weight. I saw 2 year olds that looked like mature horses but perhaps that's a whole other topic.
Micropony
Well-Known Member
The average livery yard in this country isn't set up to give a stallion a great quality of life, and lots just flat refuse to take them. Those I have seen that do take them have special stallion paddocks with extra high reinforced fencing and they are only allowed individual turnout. Lots of people think that in itself is cruel, although there are plenty of mares and geldings kept that way for a huge range of reasons, my last horse having been one of them. I have known people who have gelded late and then been surprised when the horse, that has been kept that way for all of its adult life, doesn't have the social skills to cope in a herd turnout environment.
I know there are other countries where keeping stallions entire is much more normal, and where the expectation is not that they will behave like nutcases. On holiday in Menorca a few years ago, for example, it was surprising to my British eyes to see a small group of what were definitely entire males, and didn't look to me like young stock, turned out together very happily and quietly.
Personally, in my circumstances and given I have no experience of handling or riding stallions, I wouldn't choose to buy one, but if others want to do so it's nothing to do with me (although I reserve my right to be as judgemental as anyone else about people who breed from poor quality animals).
I know there are other countries where keeping stallions entire is much more normal, and where the expectation is not that they will behave like nutcases. On holiday in Menorca a few years ago, for example, it was surprising to my British eyes to see a small group of what were definitely entire males, and didn't look to me like young stock, turned out together very happily and quietly.
Personally, in my circumstances and given I have no experience of handling or riding stallions, I wouldn't choose to buy one, but if others want to do so it's nothing to do with me (although I reserve my right to be as judgemental as anyone else about people who breed from poor quality animals).
Orangehorse
Well-Known Member
Everyone relates how well behaved their stallions are, but no will admit to having a naughty one! There was a case a few years ago where a stallion broke through into the stable next door and savaged a gelding. I daresay there were other incidents. There seemed to be so many stallions competing in show jumping that the registration fees for an entire went up a lot - I imagine to discourage people, unless the horse is a serious stud prospect.
There is a local stud where all the stallions are kept in very good conditions, they overlook the yard, they are turned out and ridden and compete, but when away at a show the manager insists that they have proper stallion boxes.
There is a local stud where all the stallions are kept in very good conditions, they overlook the yard, they are turned out and ridden and compete, but when away at a show the manager insists that they have proper stallion boxes.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Again I think that is a separate management issue. Nothing wrong in having a stallion to use it's hormones to aid competing rather than breeding so long as you are able to manage it appropriately. If you have to keep them alone and stabled that is not much of a life whether you are breeding or not.
Rollin
Well-Known Member
I never wanted a stallion and bred a colt who was just too good to cut. I am a hack happy geriatric and he is the horse who gives me most pleasure. He has done endurance and now SJ. He may try his hand at eventing. Never a problem when away at trainer's yard or in the SJ warm up arena. Sine moving to France I do not understand why Brtis are so anxious about having stallions on a yard. Non of the local trainers or livery yards near me would refuse to take a stallion.
Never alone. Paddock with views of all his favourite mares and stable with a grill so he can kiss anyone of three we could stable beside him they love him too. At least 6 hours turnout on good grazing 24/7 all year.
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rara007
Well-Known Member
Mine (and I suspect most people having them as leisure animals) would be a naughty gelding
rachk89
Well-Known Member
I don't think I would have one unless I got into breeding for some reason. Pretty sure my gelding was cut late and he is a handful. He mounts the geldings if the mares are in heat, flirts with the mares in the stables and they encourage it. There had been a stallion at the yard ages ago and one day it arrived to be stabled while I was riding. Had to get off to stop him easier from going over to it as it would have ended up in a fight no doubt. But he lacks manners, not that I haven't tried to teach him. Don't think I'd like to deal with an actual stallion after him.
HappyHorses:)
Well-Known Member
In this case I would agree it's because your horse has no manners! Lol
My two stallions live out together 24/7 with free access into their yard and stables. Hard life eh? They hack out with mares, geldings and each other and compete with no issues as that is how they have been brought up. With ALL horses it's about correct handling and management to ensure you have a happy well rounded individual.
To judge all stallion owners as being the same is crazy.
I see so many horses, mares and geldings, stuck in their stable 23 hours a day in the winter and also having individual turn out. I personally don't agree with this lifestyle for horses but realise this is how some horses need to be managed.
catroo
Well-Known Member
I have a herd of stallions and colts living together, mainly out 24/7. They compete and travel all over the country, stabling away at shows. I do request stallion boxes at shows but I just think that's a sensible precaution.
If the colts are half decent and have nice personalities then they stay entire, if they have any undesirable tendencies inc bad behaviour then they get gelded.
On the whole I never had a problem with them but there has been the odd fire breathing dragon. I have one now that is great 90% of the time but certain situations set him off, I know what these are and so avoid/manage them
The biggest issue I have is the behaviour of others. The amount of times I've been stood there with my stallion resting a leg and having a doze yet the rider on a badly behaved mare is shouting at me that it's all my fault!
If the colts are half decent and have nice personalities then they stay entire, if they have any undesirable tendencies inc bad behaviour then they get gelded.
On the whole I never had a problem with them but there has been the odd fire breathing dragon. I have one now that is great 90% of the time but certain situations set him off, I know what these are and so avoid/manage them
The biggest issue I have is the behaviour of others. The amount of times I've been stood there with my stallion resting a leg and having a doze yet the rider on a badly behaved mare is shouting at me that it's all my fault!