'Competition' horses - turnout, herds, hillsides... Thoughts?

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ecrozier

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Just pondering my options and wondered what all your thoughts are...
Currently having soundness issues with both my horses. Now I'm under no illusions that they are top flight competition horses but are very precious to me and as such I am not currently a happy bunny with both of work - Roo with as yet undiagnosed low level intermittent hind limb lameness and a more acute forelimb lameness. J is now also lame on near fore, my suspicion is that his arthritis is playing up. Coupled with this, on Saturday Roo tore a front shoe off taking a good chunk of foot with it (helpful on the day he was meant to go to RVC) and their field mate came in with nasty injury (at the time suspected chip/fracture but thankfully just nasty cut).
I'm now debating the safety of our turnout. These 3 boys get on very well - however their field is on a steep (think 1 in 8) gradient, and with the current weather and conditions, it's pretty slippery...
How do you guys feel about horses being on steep slopes for all their turnout? Due to other owners/lack of a YM, this is our allocated field for the summer ie march to October, there is no option to change....
I'm seriously contemplating moving to a yard with flatter turnout, and smaller fields, but wonder if anyone else has suffered soundness issues due to this prolonged wet spell or equally if anyone has any thoughts re the safety of horses being on a steep hill all the time? There is no flat area of this field at all...
 
Mine live in a large field which is the start of a valley, so level at the top each side but quite acute hills each side with a basin in the middle. I once had a horse come in lame, having pulled a hamstring doing a sliding stop, but the rest of the time I find ours very sound and well, in fact I would say our field does all the horses the world of good.
I would be more suspicious of arena surfaces, though I can be a bit fluffy about turnout & wanting it very natural blah, blah, blah, so not probably the best person to comment
 
Sorry no help from me here as we are flat flat flat round here, but fingers crossed you get to the bottom of their problems soon.
 
If there is no flat area I think, in the current conditions, I wouldn't be happy putting my horses out there - especially as the gradient sounds quite steep. Im all for 'natural' turnout conditions but steep, slippery hills don't float my boat. FWIW mine is out on a gradual slope but its v well drained somehow(!) and there doesn't seem to be ay hoonying around so I'm not at all concerned.

However, saying that, I'm not sure I'd blame the hill entirely for the lameness (although I'd bet its not helping). Havent you raised concerns about the surface of the school in previous posts? I would put money on that being more of a factor than the hills TBH.

From what you've said about the fields and the school I think its def time to move on :(
 
Yep - am also concerned about the school (has nasty deep patches) so am moving on as soon as I can find somewhere suitable ;) have found where I want to go but they have a waiting list, so now am just debating whether to look for somewhere else in the meantime or chance leaving them where they are.
Will depend partly what outcome is of roo's RVC visit!
Thanks all - sounds like I am not being overly 'fluffy' worrying about them as they are. They are pretty calm but as horses do, they do sometimes hooley about like idiots!
 
Where I grew up in Devon, everywhere was a hill so it never occurred to me to question it and all our ponies where incredibly fit and muscled which was a real advantage when we went to pony club interbranch things and yes at certain times of the year it was wet and boggy.

But none of the fields were overgrazed, they were huge fields so you didn't have a risk of horses galloping down the hill and constantly turning and stopping as they run out of field and there were no underlying conditions.

My current horse has a shoulder injury and he is deliberately turned out on a flat field till that is resolved so it may be worth asking depending on the outcome of the rvc visit if the vets recommend flatter turnout.
 
Sorry to hear they are both off games :(

My lot self harm on a regular basis out in the field, and it does really worry me!! They always arse around, I've tried seperating them but they are such a close herd now that they just fence walk, run around more or go through fences when I seperate them.

They are in pretty flat fields though, the only good thing. I don't think I could deal with putting them out on a slope, it's bad enough watching them charge around when it's flat!!
 
Thanks criso - interesting re shoulder injury as that is one of the possibilities with roo (showing signs of something going on above the knee - blocked as far up as carpal sheath and made no difference). Can you tell me a little more about your horse's injury? Symptoms/diagnosis/treatment etc?
 
Saratoga - exactly!!! Roo was trotting around the other day, in a fashion that in a flat field wouldn't be even slightly concerning, but with underlying lameness and slippery hillside, my heart was in my mouth the whole time!!
 
I have 9 all out together. Their ages range from 4 - 30yrs. My fields are hilly to. Cant think i've ever had a problem because of it. I do try and keep them out of the rough bog field - boggy bits that are knee deep!! :O - but that is because they pull shoes rather than anyhing else.
My herd dynamic is very good though. The boys gallop round and play rough and the girls just look at them in disgust!

I cant say we've had any lameness probs with this set up
 
Really, really sorry to hear both off...nothing wise to add except an old horseman once said to me that fields on a hill were fine as long as they were big (so no sliding stops or "cowboy stops" as he put it). I honestly cannot remember a year when so many "competition horses" that I know have had injuries and I do wonder if there is something in the combination of terrible ground and lack of events that is making bored yet fit horses tear around to let off steam?? Also so many shoes being pulled off- mine pulled his front shoe off the other day for the first time in 4 years even with overreach boots on and the fact that at 20 (and quite stiff) I was unaware that his back foot could actually reach his front ;-)...Good luck!
 
He was diagnosed at the RVC at the end of may, they had to use scintigraphy to find the problem area and then xrays.

He was very lame, seemed worse on a straight line than a circle, the same on a surface or concrete. Rest didn't help, may even have made it slightly worse so the vet agreed he could go out on a smallish paddock on his own. He is clearly more uncomfortable walking downhill so I'm keeping him on the flat for the moment.

It's not good news - he has an incredibly rare condition of a bone cyst in his shoulder, they've only seen about 3 ever up there , so prognosis has to be guarded.
He had a steroid injection into the shoulder to see if that helped and it seemed to ease the pain for a couple of days but no more so they are considering surgery. Just waiting on insurance atm. Even then they are not sure what they will find/do till they get in there.

Not a happy tale but very very rare so unlikely to be the same but I bet it's in the front of their minds if they've just seen one.
 
A friend of mine's sister had a horse which had lameness issues and they kept it on the side of a steep hill with no level area, and in the end they had to move it elsewhere, I think upon advice from the vet but I'm not 100%. I think if they are on a steep hill a lot it creates a bit of unevenness, they are constantly shifting more of their weight onto one or the other legs. I know that after walking along the side of a steep hill I really want to walk on a level area as it becomes quite uncomfortable, I imagine it could be quite similar for horses.
 
Thanks all. Britestar, my fields at my parents place were sloping but sound like yours in that they were huge open fields. And a very settled herd so probably less silliness than now.
Almostthere, totally agree. This ground seems to be playing havoc with so many of them ATM.
Criso, poor you/poor him. Sounds unlikely to be the same as roo is fine on straight line, just looks 'short' on right fore when that is the outside leg on a left hand circle. Weirdly, when that is the inside leg, he is fine. Not been more than 1/10 lame on that shoulder/upper leg though.
Sj_xc_hannah, I know what you mean. Whenever I see them resting, they always stand with forelegs down the hill, and it must put different stresses on the fetlocks/patterns I think....
 
I agree with siennamum.

One of mine has a summer field with really steep slope (that people struggle to walk down and refuse to walk down it's it's wet) and half his summer field is like a skating rink as it's clay soil.

However, the field with the slope has a flat portion at the bottom and the gate is at the top of the slope I wouldn't be as happy if it was the other way around or there was now flat bit so that they always hit the fence if they pratted around.

We've not had any injuries due to turn out and there have been several small groups using these fields even when it snowed.

I also think the walking up and down the slope has done my horses spavin the world of good.

The horses manage fine with this turnout, mine come to call so I'm very lucky otherwise I'd spend a great deal of time rolling down hills or sliping over in the mud.

One of my other horses who is kept elsewhere has a well drained flatish field and I would never turn him out on the above as he is retired due to a tendon injury that he will never fully recover from due to it's location.

I think it depends on the horses, if they are frequently injuring themselves due to your current arrangements then I'd move them.
 
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The eventers and SJ I used to groom for in NZ were all kept on ridiculously steep hills, huge fields but with a little flat space at the top and the bottom. They were out 24 hours a day, 7 days a week all year round, barring when they had to be stabled at competitions. We never had any injuries and it helped to keep them in shape for eventing/competing. they always looked after themselves and knew where their feet were. the ground was always good though, really well draining.
 
My boy is currently on a hilly field although it does flatten at top of the two hills and a tiny vally type thing between the two hills. He is so much fitter and well muscled as has to work whilst out. He looks well and doesn't tend to charge too much but loads of space so no sudden stopping required. In winter they still have a slope in field but more flat lamd.
My mums friend had 5 horses all kept on very steep hill only flat at bottom and they all got to late 30s before dying of old age rather than arthritis or injury. My farrier also was hers of recons the hill helped keep them fit!
 
Ours go out in a group of between 4 and 10 with ages ranging from 7-22!! They all seem to get on pretty well and they are turned out on a fairly steep sloped field (it is flat at the top of the hill though) and I haven't had any major issues. But mine don't tend to run about, they just potter as they are pretty much out 24/7 and only come in for a feed/exercise/rug change, so I guess turnout isn't too exciting for them when they do go out!

vibes for your two though!!! hope they come sound soon

Mxx
 
Have to say, after one of my horses went lame after being turned out on our bank (a huge bank of soil built by our arena), I won't ever be putting any of my comp horses on there again as I'm sure it put too much strain on her legs (she's sound now, fingers crossed).

Luckily all my fields are flat, or very slightly sloped..

My dressage cob is out on his own, but that is because he is an absolute git with other horses, i.e. tries to kill them. And he is quite happy all on his own, doesn't care if those next to him go in, etc. All of my others are in pairs or threes, which I much prefer tbh.
 
I used to work on a yard in Tuscany that was on the side of a mountain. The fields were so steep they had to have terraces cut into them, and all the horses were sound as can be. Obviously we didn't have to deal with mud so much there! The only horse that had to go out on the flat field was one that had been bought from the knackerman and had broken down. He came sound, but couldn't do hills with his tendons. The two event horses there were the best XC horses I have ever known - they just had a feel for ground.

If my horses didn't hoon about and the vet was happy, I wouldn't be too worried in your situation OP. TBH we are on land at the bottom of hills, which can be boggy and is clay, and that would pull shoes off/cause tendon probs much more than a hill..

If you've found a yard you think would be better, get on the list! I would have a chat with your vet and see if they think the hill would be an issue..

Hope all comes right..x
 
I'm frantically touching wood! My field isnt really hilly, but its got a lot of slopes, loads of logs, bushes and other things that probably arent safe. Mine also spend a lot of time galloping about and playing as they are a gelding only herd including 2 yearlings. Sometimes I have to close my eyes when they all come flat out down hill leaping over long grass etc. But I've not had a problem with soundness yet (still touching wood!!). Mine also hack out over extereme terrain. They are expected to get on with it! We lean back and slip the reins,or get our butts out of the saddle and kick on. They all look amazing. We dont have a school so they almost never go on a surface.

The local "competition yard" has endless problems with lame horses. The majority of their work is either in the school or on a school surface on the all weather gallop and I am as sure as I can be that this contributes to it. I almost gave up a few weeks ago and took my competition horse to a yard as the rain was getting me down. Then a friends horse did both suspensories despite only being just 4 and never having been worked hard! I'm sure at some point there WILL be some sort of incident involved the field/hacking etc, but I'll put up with my extreme hacking, no school and totally not flat, short green pasture if it helps keep mine from working on surfaces all the time.
 
Thanks all for thoughts....
I have to say, been at this particular yard for almost 4 years and never really had a problem before - BUT never had a year as wet as this and therefore slippery, and also they have never been stuck on this slope 24/7 before, always been in a bigger group that has had that field and one other, so only spent 50% of their time on the hill. There is literally no flat ground at all...
Having said that - initial results on roo have shown up hotspots on lower hock joints and right stifle.... So we shall see.
 
Thanks :) am partly relieved that a) they found something to investigate and b) nothing as yet pointing to psd.... Which was my biggest worry...
 
My warmblood can't be kept on a hill as he tears his shoes off. Had to move to a private yard (£££££££) with super flat turn out now 9 months on his feet have fully recovered and touch wood I've only have 1 shoe come off days before farrier was due ins tread of the 2 during the appointments I used to get.
 
Thanks again all - I think herds on a large open hillside with good grass cover probably has more benefits than risks, but in the particular case of the field my boys are in - we have very poor grass cover (and a lot of weeds but that's beside the point!) and not a huge field, so when they do race around they are constantly turning/sliding to a stop :/
 
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