Competitive spark and living out.

[flying_high]

Does anyone actually have proof that Carl's horses go out as much as HE says they do?

I have done the tour of his yard, and the horses were out. BUT he is situated on low lying wet clay, land prone to flooding. I don't think there is much WINTER turnout. Think I asked about winter turnout on the tour, and I don't think many go out when ground is saturated, which can be most of winter if a bad winter on clay.

 

[flying_high]

Could well do and when the owner of said yard bumped into us a couple of years later at the BD Nationals he reckoned he had not charged enough for the horse.

I'd rather shoot my horse than keep / send it there. Not a happy place or nice people.

 

[meleeka]

Does anyone actually have proof that Carl's horses go out as much as HE says they do?

No but I have seen a fair few photos of them out in lovely fields

 

[milliepops]

it is low lying land. But there are also plenty of videos and pictures of them being out when there are puddles on the ground. They certainly hack plenty - if you live or drive nearby on certain days of the week chances are you will come across them out and about.

So I would take it in good faith, and again I would say that in wet months there are plenty of other leisure horses that are kept in off soggy fields just as much yet plenty of people either can't avoid it or think they have put in enough other measures to make that acceptable.

 

[Littlebear]

No but I have seen a fair few photos of them out in lovely fields

Ive been there a few times, there have been a few horses in that I guess will be ridden that day but normally lots out, I don't know him or his set up to comment further but its a very calm and peaceful place, if I was a horse I wouldn't mind living there (actually scrap that ill take a stable as a human )

 

[milliepops]

Ive been there a few times, there have been a few horses in that I guess will be ridden that day but normally lots out, I don't know him or his set up to comment further but its a very calm and peaceful place, if I was a horse I wouldn't mind living there (actually scrap that ill take a stable as a human )

haha! me too! I think it's a very nicely thought out yard, quiet and peaceful. Apparently the horses don't even get tacked up in their stables, they are purely spaces for the horses to rest, which while it sounds like a tiny thing, it shows the thought processes behind it all are genuine, IMO.

 

[AdorableAlice]

I'd rather shoot my horse than keep / send it there. Not a happy place or nice people.

Quality horses, quality facilities and highly experienced people, but I agree with you. I returned there in 2009 to stable for 3 nights when competing at RIHS as I did not want to stable in the RIHS stables and neither did I want to stay in the lorry so I used the B&B adjacent the yard.

Bearing in mind it was 5 years since my horse had come out of there, he instantly knew where he was when I unboxed him and became a little unsettled. He was fine as it was me looking after him for the 3 days and he only needed a leg stretch in the arena's before leaving to go to Hickstead each day.

 

[Ambers Echo]

haha! me too! I think it's a very nicely thought out yard, quiet and peaceful. Apparently the horses don't even get tacked up in their stables, they are purely spaces for the horses to rest, which while it sounds like a tiny thing, it shows the thought processes behind it all are genuine, IMO.

That is very impressive. I might start that too. Would never have occurred to me. I assume then same goes for dentistry, vaccs etc.

 

[splashgirl45]

just read the poem in carl's tribute to escapado on h & h news page , made me tear up....

 

[cundlegreen]

I've done 3 months of stable rest with my tb in the past and it was really hard. I think it is so unnatural for a horse to live like that long term, really very sad.

But then I see lots of horses turned out on their own in small taped off areas. Horses are herd creatures, and to me, this is as much an issue as horses stabled, where at least, they are close to another horse (hopefully).

 

[milliepops]

That is very impressive. I might start that too. Would never have occurred to me. I assume then same goes for dentistry, vaccs etc.

Guess so. Dunno. We need an insider to confirm
When you're at livery it's a bit difficult to achieve the same things isn't it! Wouldn't it be nice to have a lovely solarium looking out over the indoor school that you can get ready in how the other half live, lol!

 

[Ceifer]

haha! me too! I think it's a very nicely thought out yard, quiet and peaceful. Apparently the horses don't even get tacked up in their stables, they are purely spaces for the horses to rest, which while it sounds like a tiny thing, it shows the thought processes behind it all are genuine, IMO.

The cynic in me thinks that although this is true. Is it also because he has an area with cross ties closer to the tack room for the sheer amount of clobber you need to put on and it’s quicker and more efficient for the grooms? You can tie up a horse with bandages and saddle on and leave it ready for the rider.

 

[milliepops]

tbh I don't think it matters the end result is the same.

 

[flying_high]

it is low lying land. But there are also plenty of videos and pictures of them being out when there are puddles on the ground. They certainly hack plenty - if you live or drive nearby on certain days of the week chances are you will come across them out and about.

So I would take it in good faith, and again I would say that in wet months there are plenty of other leisure horses that are kept in off soggy fields just as much yet plenty of people either can't avoid it or think they have put in enough other measures to make that acceptable.

I believe he gets them turned out and hacking as much as is possible. It isn't puddles, and agree they go out in rain. But low lying clay land can become a quagmire December to March, and I think they don't really go out in middle of winter, as it just isn't possible with wet clay land.

 

[Goldenstar]

you know I have better things to do with my life than do turnout CDI at a riders yard .
While I have personally never met CH I know people who do know him .
I have never heard anyone say anything negative about how he cares for his horses he’s greatly respected on every level .
I think it’s ridiculous that the death of a horse who when retired he took home and oversaw its care by the groom who cared for it through it career with Carl would turn into this sort of thread .

You can also find on YouTube clips of some of the retired Glock horses turned out in some stunning pastures I suppose those could staged as well much more fun than thinking that People at the top of sport treat their horses with knowledge and respect .

 

[TheMule]

I keep my horses out and have evented a couple to a reasonable level off grass. It suits me and my horses, but they are kept in a small, settled group in lovely big fields with shelter. They sleep plenty, so are not tired when I work them.
What many people turn their horses out in (generally on their own) are not conducive to quality rest and so they have to bring the horses in. It's not that horses generally prefer to sleep in a stable, it's the set up that allows them rest IMO

 

[Bellaboo18]

Yes I do find it sad.
For me wellbeing is my first priority, my enjoyment and ridden work comes second but then it's just my hobby.
I'd use hot to mean both physically and mentally on their toes.
I also don't like arguments of oh it could be worse and yes but they want for nothing...
Horses are all individuals so I'm not saying every horse should live out 24/7 but no turnout or very minimal turnout doesn't sit well with me. I'd want a better reason than to add spark.
I think the biggest worry for me is amateurs copying the management styles of professionals. Naturally we all have idols but we need to remember they're not looking after the average horses so the average little cob that's in light work probably doesn't need to come in if it rains.
I also wonder when people think their horses love to be in because they stand and wait at the gate it's actually just they know they're going in for food and shelter both of which can be supplied with turnout.
I think it's a good debate ycbm.

 

[Bellaboo18]

you know I have better things to do with my life than do turnout CDI at a riders yard .
While I have personally never met CH I know people who do know him .
I have never heard anyone say anything negative about how he cares for his horses he’s greatly respected on every level .
I think it’s ridiculous that the death of a horse who when retired he took home and oversaw its care by the groom who cared for it through it career with Carl would turn into this sort of thread .

You can also find on YouTube clips of some of the retired Glock horses turned out in some stunning pastures I suppose those could staged as well much more fun than thinking that People at the top of sport treat their horses with knowledge and respect .

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick, I don't think ycbm is criticising Carl, she's just taken one sentence and started a good debate. It's good to question our methods.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I also find it very sad how many keep them boxed 24/7, even if ridden everyday it isn't fair on the mental state. They're animals at the end of the day.

A well known friend has a dressage mare that competes at Grand Prix and at premier league, she doesn't get turned out as she's to 'precious' which has always saddened me.
Competes very well and always placing, but it amazes me they don't get injuries being stabled so much? Stood in a box, maybe ridden for a couple of hours a day but then returned to the box to stand again?
I always thought a leg stretch was good for them, specially after work. Then again, theres me with 2 horses who have a easy life, live out 24/7 most of the time and got everything they've ever needed and they're both broken - LOL.
I remember Carl Hester has quoted all horses need turn out time in a interview for Horse and Hound a while back. After Badminton Ben Hobday took a video of his ride enjoying some turnout, nice to see..

 

[Red-1]

I'll be the first to say it then... yes, if I had trained to GP in dressage, and my horse would do 'OK' when turned out or win if stabled, then I would stable.

I am not talking about locking one in 24/7, as the ones you feel are unfairly kept are worked, walkered and hand grazed by the sounds of it.

I am secure in knowing that in all of my years with horses, none that I have been responsible for have ever gone 24 hours left in a stable without some work or turnout. But, yes, if it meant winning V coming nowhere, I would certainly consider stopping turnout for the duration of when the competition in question would be affected.

I have been at several yards where other horses have been left on "stable rest" or have a "duvet day" or whatever the owners have called it, but never my own. I don't do that at all.

I guess it is like I think they are better without shoes as a general thing, but them mine wear shoes for eventing because i believe it makes us more likely to do better.

I think my horses don't enjoy being clipped as a general thing, but I do it so I can work them harder in winter.

There are compromises to be made when owners have a goal such as an event, just as there are compromises when finance has to be considered.

I have worked for 20 years with working animals, and yes, their lives were affected so they could be able to work. They wore shoes, saddles, bits, were clipped, rugged, walkered. All for convenience.

I think that many people think it is their way or the highway. Personally I think that as long as the horse has the minimum standards of care then it is up to the owner. There are too many horses for the people who merely wish to provide a horse utopia to own. For everyone else there are compromises.

I do also thin that horses can be genuinely happy in different situations.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I'll be the first to say it then... yes, if I had trained to GP in dressage, and my horse would do 'OK' when turned out or win if stabled, then I would stable.

Thats the thing, if you had trained said horse yourself to that level... things would be different for all of us, I'm sure.
Its hard to comment really as never personally competed at that level or owned/trained a horse to that standard... it saddens me they are stabled most of their lives but they're athletes and have a job to do (I suppose)
I can only imagine how precious they are let alone how much money they are worth for a field injury to ruin their career?

 

[Bellaboo18]

But then I see lots of horses turned out on their own in small taped off areas. Horses are herd creatures, and to me, this is as much an issue as horses stabled, where at least, they are close to another horse (hopefully).

Again, two wrongs don't make a right. You mention two separate issues, surely the answer is to make sure your horses have turnout with company and enough space to exercise themselves.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Away from dressage and eventing. I know of a couple who show welsh Ds.. to me, they're fat over weight horses but they does well in the showing world and place most time out.

They currently have a foal they got after it was weaned. The poor colt was in a box for months to 'build condition for showing'.. and now maybe gets a day turned out every month. Apparently its normal, I think its cruel.. they then complai when the foal bites, rears and box walks. Grr..

 

[eggs]

We've got four horses working at a decent level at dressage - 1 at Inter 1, 1 about to do his first Inter 1, 1 about to do her first PSG and 1 just consolidating his tempis for PSG. I supposed they are all a little 'sharp' in that they are not a beginner's ride although as an amateur rider I am able to ride them. They are treated the same as the other horses and are out all together at night and in during the day in summer and switched around in winter. However whilst they are all working at a decent level they certainly are not international level horses. One of them does stay in the night before a show as otherwise he is very flat and runs out of energy part way through the test.

To be honest if I had a horse that was a potential team horse (not that I would as I probably wouldn't be able to ride one side of it) with sponsors to keep happy then I probably would stable more IF it improved the scores.

 

[daffy44]

I've trained two of my own horses to competing GP, both these horses are turned out every day, for between 6 to 10 hours depending on the time of year, both of them are stabled overnight, every night, so nothing changes when they compete the next day. They have a varied work routine, they do lots of hacking, poles etc, and they love their turnout, they do not have "duvet days" because it is raining, snowing etc, they still go out, the only exception is if getting to the field is too icy to be safe, but this is extremely rare. When they are about to stay away at shows I reduce their turn out hours slightly to prepare them for more stabling than they are used to, they are also hand grazed as much as possible when staying away.
My youngsters live out 24/7 including ridden 4yr olds, they are worked from the field and do very well like this. I only had one horse who competed to a higher level (PSG) who lived out 24/7, and she was an extremely high energy horse, and if stabled, she couldnt concentrate enough to work, she was unable to mentally settle to her work, but if she lived out, then she could contain herself enough to be rideable. To the point when she was competing at the Winters on two consectutive days, I drove her back and forth so she could still spend the night in the field.

I have been on Carl's yard on many occasions and yes, horses are always in the fields, he doesnt just say it in interviews, he does it in real life.

 

[windand rain]

I hate stables, but I also think that some horses because of the start they have in life are habituated into showing the stereo typical standing at the gate thing. 24/7 living in a 12x12 patch of ground is the same as a stable the bit I do not get is when it became ok the use a walker as a means of exercise except for rehab. Horses do not spend an hours walking they do spend hours wandering about looking for grazing and time galloping about to different areas extravagantly trotting about showing off. As to keeping in a stable for sparkle it is wrong but it seems to be an acceptable way of getting it. I have always found mine much more tired and stresssed from being in than ever from living out and yes I have been on liveries with them where they had to come in at night

 

[Goldenstar]

If you can’t teach horses to relax in stables then you need to learn how to .
It can save your horses life .
For the unfortunate horses who has not been taught about stables in a positive way even small injuries can be a stressful and unpleasant experiance .
Tatts was an non stabled horse he was a complete stress head in the stable it took me time and patience but it as a good thing I did because when disaster struck and he ended up in plaster he had to be in an enclosed space just a bit bigger than a horse has in a lorry he coped and recovered fully .
My horses like the field they like the stable they are happy horses .

 

[windand rain]

If you can’t teach horses to relax in stables then you need to learn how to .
It can save your horses life .
For the unfortunate horses who has not been taught about stables in a positive way even small injuries can be a stressful and unpleasant experiance .
Tatts was an non stabled horse he was a complete stress head in the stable it took me time and patience but it as a good thing I did because when disaster struck and he ended up in plaster he had to be in an enclosed space just a bit bigger than a horse has in a lorry he coped and recovered fully .
My horses like the field they like the stable they are happy horses .

they tolerate being in but love being out there is a difference

 

[milliepops]

they tolerate being in but love being out there is a difference

I really think it does horses a dis-service to generalise, you have to know your individuals and know the set up you have available.
I have one that I genuinely believe does not care if she is in or out, when they got snowed in for a week (thick ice on the yard so could not access fields safely) she was happy as larry as long as the hay kept coming her way. Her neighbour was getting cabin fever after a couple of days - I can tell the difference. Likewise if you stick her out in any field 24/7 she is quite content so long as there is grass.

My competing horse was one that did not stable when I got her, she was claustrophobic but as GS says I had to teach her to cope with it. Now if she has her buddy next door and a quiet box with some privacy then she is very content. She enjoys turnout but it has to be a "boring" field with no hedges or trees, otherwise she gets so anxious that she won't rest, as she stays alert the whole time looking for the bogey man. She kicks her mates and picks fights constantly if she's turned out in company so I can't do that to try and take the strain off her... they haven't all read the text book so I think you have to take them all as individuals.

 

[milliepops]

I have been on Carl's yard on many occasions and yes, horses are always in the fields, he doesnt just say it in interviews, he does it in real life.

was hoping you would spot this thread Real life experience is really valuable!