Completely at a loss- dog killed a goat

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ApolloStorm

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So I took on a foster dog about 4 weeks ago, with the plan that she would go back to her owners once they had sorted out housing problems. Was told she was good recall well behaved etc. I didn't let her off for the first few days. But we worked on her recall slowly until she was consistently coming back.
Until this incident today. I was walking along a ' national trail' where dogs/ cyclists all use the path, but it was pretty straight so I let my dog and the foster off, practiced recall a few times. Then we rounded a corner and was faced by 2/3 goats on the path, the dogs have chase and the Goats run into the farm. I call them and my dog comes back and get her on a lead. The foster is chasing the goats like mad, and I couldn't catch her, she then nobbed off round the back of the farm and it all went quiet, so I went round and she's mauled this goat, it's still breathing so I go to grab her by the collar and she snarls and snaps at me and my dog, like she's defending her " kill" I put her slip lead on from a distance as so not to get bit. Then drag her round to the farm house and the farmer goes and shoots the goat, I'm in a state by this point, I KNOW it's my fault, but I just have no idea what I could have done differently. The farmer has my details and is of the opinion the owners are equally responsible. I have no idea of the consequences of this on the dog/ me/ the owners. And I feel SO guilty, and like I shouldn't own dogs anymore!
 
I don't know legally, but I am sorry for all concerned, it must have been a great shock.

I would check your household insurance, many include damages done by dogs as third party cover.

If it were me then even if there were no cover I would personally compensate the farmer for the value of the goat.

As far as the dog goes, I don't know if the farmer can have PTS after one incident. If not, then I would never let the dog off in a public place again. I would also muzzle in public.
 
ApolloStorm said:
So I took on a foster dog about 4 weeks ago, with the plan that she would go back to her owners once they had sorted out housing problems. Was told she was good recall well behaved etc. I didn't let her off for the first few days. But we worked on her recall slowly until she was consistently coming back.
Until this incident today. I was walking along a ' national trail' where dogs/ cyclists all use the path, but it was pretty straight so I let my dog and the foster off, practiced recall a few times. Then we rounded a corner and was faced by 2/3 goats on the path, the dogs have chase and the Goats run into the farm. I call them and my dog comes back and get her on a lead. The foster is chasing the goats like mad, and I couldn't catch her, she then nobbed off round the back of the farm and it all went quiet, so I went round and she's mauled this goat, it's still breathing so I go to grab her by the collar and she snarls and snaps at me and my dog, like she's defending her " kill" I put her slip lead on from a distance as so not to get bit. Then drag her round to the farm house and the farmer goes and shoots the goat, I'm in a state by this point, I KNOW it's my fault, but I just have no idea what I could have done differently. The farmer has my details and is of the opinion the owners are equally responsible. I have no idea of the consequences of this on the dog/ me/ the owners. And I feel SO guilty, and like I shouldn't own dogs anymore!
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There is nothing you can do now, apart from sorting out the compensation. Animals are unpredictable especially if they have had some problem in the past, and you can do nothing.
A horse I purchased from an unscrpulous dealer horse killed a sheep, and he also tried to jump on my lab, among other things.
A pony I bought from a field, must have had a bad early life, and while he was basically a nice person, he did not know how to behave properly, could not cope with life changes/field changes etc.
A friend got a cat from sspca last year, it suddenly attacked her for no reason, I mean really attacked her, and chased her, there was a lot of blood and A&E. SSPCA put it back for adoption!!!!!!!!!!
You will
 
Horrible incident for all concerned. I would pay the farmer for his loss and the dog would not be offlead again.

You never know how well a dog recalls until it is under distraction and personally I would never let someone else's dog off the lead.
Someone else's definition of what their dog is good at and mine are often completely different so it is best to err on the side of caution.

Also bear in mind two dogs in a chase situation will hype each other up/be in competition for a prey object, even if one or the other is normally not reactive in this way.

Even with my own dog, if I can't see the way ahead or am coming round a corner on the same walk we do every day, I hold him in the collar or loop the lead around his head.

It's a rubbish situation but there's learning to be had from it, everyone makes mistakes.
 
The most likely outcome is you pay compensation for the goat.

I think theoretically you could be prosecuted for having an out of control dog in a public place but not sure? Surprised the farmer didn’t shoot the dog as well TBH, I probably would have done if I’d been him.

It must have been very shocking.

Hindsight being a wonderful thing, I’d never let a new foster/adopted dog off the lead after just 4 weeks
 
So sorry to read this. How horrible for you. Don't feel guilty - you took precautions, you did nothing reckless or negligent. Hope it all resolves quickly and with as little bad feeling as possible. I'd pay the farmer too though I would hope/expect the owners to refund me. But I'd pay up immediately anyway and deal with the owners later. How are the owners of the dog reacting?
 
I too am not sure of the legal standpoint but think that financial compensation for the loss of the goat and an assurance that the dog will never be off lead again in a public place would be an appropriate response.

Awful situation for all concerned, I'm sorry you had to go through it. I remember that pit-of-stomach sick feeling when one of mine killed a family cat and have vowed never to make a similar mistake, it was a very sad learning curve.
 
Agree with all the above. Compensate (personally I'd go for a 'generously' and not through insurance option if possible as that is likely cheaper long term) for goat.

AFAIK farmer can only shoot the dog *whilst* it is worrying livestock and, as OP had it on a lead before farmer saw it that wouldn't have been an option. If farmer gets comp for goat (and it wasn't a dearly loved pet or anything) they are unlikely to be vindictive enough to go after OP being prosecuted as nothing at all for them to gain and, as no human was attacked by the dog, it would be unlucky to end up with a destruction order.

OP, do you want to continue looking after this dog? Can the original owner take it back yet? Was going to say it might be better suited to a more urban (ie goat-free!) environment but on second thoughts probably better a goat than a pet/child/etc. Hopefully the conversation with the farmer will be easier than the one with the dog's owner!
 
Whilst I rarely hold back when dealing with those who are responsible for dogs which damage or kill livestock, your case is different, thankfully!

It may seem like splitting hairs, but you are not at fault, even though you are responsible. You did exactly the right thing, approaching the keeper of the goat and facing up to the situation, and that's a huge plus. I too would have let a 'guest' dog off the lead under the same situation and also acted as you did, except that had the dog turned on me I would probably have beaten 9 bells out of it.

What to do now? That depends upon how you acquired the dog; if it was from a homing centre or some such body, the dog would be in the back of my car and returned to them, not the owner. If the arrangement which you have is of a personal or private nature, with the owners, then it's they who you need to speak to and attempt to achieve the same result i.e.. get rid of the bloody thing.

The dog has displayed a complete lack of respect for you and having now put you in your place, without a major readjustment of its thought processes, it is most likely to do it again. I strongly suspect that the owner of the goat will come to you for compensation and dependent upon the abilities of the dog's owner will depend upon whether they reimburse you, or they don't.

You have my sympathy.

Alec.
 
GirlFriday said:
……..

AFAIK farmer can only shoot the dog *whilst* it is worrying livestock and, as OP had it on a lead before farmer saw it that wouldn't have been an option. …….. !
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You're entirely correct. Dogs can only be legally shot if it's the only way considered possible to prevent it from continuing an attack. Dogs once contained and prevented from further attack cannot be shot retrospectively, no matter what the temptation! I have previously shot dogs when they've been heading away from sheep and after they've seen me, but this was only because their visit was the third in as many days, and once dead they wouldn't be coming back for 'afters'.

Alec.
 
Personally I would never let a dog off the lead unless is was mine, all my foster dogs run on a 50ft long-line, its just too risky especially in livestock areas.

I think once you were presented with what happened you acted responsibly, finding the farmer etc, have you contacted the owner of the dog as they need to pay compensation for the goat.
 
It sounds like a horrible experience for all concerned. Fortunately the goat wasn't a beloved pet.
I am of the opinion that the responsibility for paying the farmer compensation for the goat is yours alone. The owner was not there and unless they had expressly said, 'My dog is steady with goats', it really isn't their responsibility.

If this foster is through a charity, you should let them know. They may not want you to foster in the future.
 
Alec Swan said:
Whilst I rarely hold back when dealing with those who are responsible for dogs which damage or kill livestock, your case is different, thankfully!

It may seem like splitting hairs, but you are not at fault, even though you are responsible. You did exactly the right thing, approaching the keeper of the goat and facing up to the situation, and that's a huge plus. I too would have let a 'guest' dog off the lead under the same situation and also acted as you did, except that had the dog turned on me I would probably have beaten 9 bells out of it.

What to do now? That depends upon how you acquired the dog; if it was from a homing centre or some such body, the dog would be in the back of my car and returned to them, not the owner. If the arrangement which you have is of a personal or private nature, with the owners, then it's they who you need to speak to and attempt to achieve the same result i.e.. get rid of the bloody thing.

The dog has displayed a complete lack of respect for you and having now put you in your place, without a major readjustment of its thought processes, it is most likely to do it again. I strongly suspect that the owner of the goat will come to you for compensation and dependent upon the abilities of the dog's owner will depend upon whether they reimburse you, or they don't.

You have my sympathy.

Alec.
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Absolutely all of this.
Go see the farmer and pay him for the goat to get that side of things squared off. And then get shot of the dog.
Awful situation, i have to say that if it was me then I wouldn't want to foster a dog again
 
no one has mentioned that the goats were on the path....had they got out from the farm? if so surely the farmer is partly responsible....it would be very different if the dog had gone into the farm and attacked a goat in its own field....however, if that was me i would immediately offer compensation and maybe a bottle of wine/whiskey to show good will...a horrible thing to happen...
 
splashgirl45 said:
no one has mentioned that the goats were on the path....had they got out from the farm? if so surely the farmer is partly responsible....it would be very different if the dog had gone into the farm and attacked a goat in its own field....however, if that was me i would immediately offer compensation and maybe a bottle of wine/whiskey to show good will...a horrible thing to happen...
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If it was a footpath over the famers land the goats have every right to be there.
OP I do feel sorry for you, I would certainly return the dog today to the owners, if they cannot take it that is their look out. I suspect you will end up paying for the goat but as the farmer saw you were distraught he will hopefully be sensible in compensation.
 
What an awful experience for all concerned. I would definitely offer compensation for the goat and also a nice bottle of whisky or similar as an act of goodwill. Keep everything crossed the goat was not a child's pet and that the farmer will recognise you acted responsibly throughout and that it was just an awful accident. A similar thing happened to me many years ago, but unfortunately my dog was shot. A very steep and traumatic learning curve as I am sure can be imagined.

What is the story with the foster? Is it through a rescue? I would either ensure it goes back to its owner or would not let it off lead again.
 
Firstly, thank you for all your advice/ support, luckily when we spoke to the farmer he was very understanding, the goat was his sons (4yo) so they have replaced goat, and we have paid for it. He was aware that his goats wander out of the farmland onto the path, I'm surprised this hasn't happened before. Though he thanked me for coming to tell him, though I don't understand the morality of people who could leave a fatally mauled goat to die. In regards to the owners, they have been informed of the incident and that she will need to be kept on a lead, and potentially muzzled, my initial response was to push the dog away and the first thing I said to my OH is that we are getting rid of the dog, but talking it through with family, since she is not staying very long, we might be best to keep her and keep her on lead, and when she goes back, they live in a urban area- unlikely to encounter such livestock- so it would be up to them being aware of the situation and knowing how to deal with it. I am going to sleep on the idea.
This has been a VERY stressful day.
 
ApolloStorm said:
Firstly, thank you for all your advice/ support, luckily when we spoke to the farmer he was very understanding, the goat was his sons (4yo) so they have replaced goat, and we have paid for it. He was aware that his goats wander out of the farmland onto the path, I'm surprised this hasn't happened before. Though he thanked me for coming to tell him, though I don't understand the morality of people who could leave a fatally mauled goat to die. In regards to the owners, they have been informed of the incident and that she will need to be kept on a lead, and potentially muzzled, my initial response was to push the dog away and the first thing I said to my OH is that we are getting rid of the dog, but talking it through with family, since she is not staying very long, we might be best to keep her and keep her on lead, and when she goes back, they live in a urban area- unlikely to encounter such livestock- so it would be up to them being aware of the situation and knowing how to deal with it. I am going to sleep on the idea.
This has been a VERY stressful day.
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That sounds sensible. You poor thing.
My lurcher killed another dog, in a three way fight, many years ago. It took me a year to forgive her, although she was just being a dog at the end of the day, it was awful. As this dog is not yours I feel that keeping it for now is best for it.
 
Clodagh said:
My lurcher killed another dog, in a three way fight, many years ago. It took me a year to forgive her, although she was just being a dog at the end of the day, it was awful.
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Forgive me for asking (and feel free not to answer if it is too uncomfortable) but how quick was that/small was the other dog? I mean it sounds like the kind of thing that would take a while to happen and therefore be preventable if dogs were supervised at the time?

I'm relatively new to having a smallish dog in my life and have had him attacked seriously twice (once he needed stitches, the second time I was quicker and braver to intervene) but I do worry about being fast enough. And both those times my own dog was on a (short) leads!
 
GirlFriday said:
Forgive me for asking (and feel free not to answer if it is too uncomfortable) but how quick was that/small was the other dog? I mean it sounds like the kind of thing that would take a while to happen and therefore be preventable if dogs were supervised at the time?

I'm relatively new to having a smallish dog in my life and have had him attacked seriously twice (once he needed stitches, the second time I was quicker and braver to intervene) but I do worry about being fast enough. And both those times my own dog was on a (short) leads!
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I am new to small dog ownership and now have 2 jackahuahuas who are tiny. I bought a handheld sonic device for the very purpose of preventing or breaking up a dog attack. I have just bought one for my daughter too. They seem to work as they emit a inaudible but very uncomfortable noise to dogs stopping them in their tracks. They are usually only walked on my land but the device means I will feel safer walking them publically.
 
GirlFriday said:
Forgive me for asking (and feel free not to answer if it is too uncomfortable) but how quick was that/small was the other dog? I mean it sounds like the kind of thing that would take a while to happen and therefore be preventable if dogs were supervised at the time?
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Other dog was a harrier. The two attacking dogs were my lurcher and a labrador. The lab actually started it, she lived with the hound. They caught a rabbit and were fighting over the carcass, it had never happened before. They tore the harriers skin in half all round from shoulder to shoulder and the wound would not heal, it kept breaking down. She was PTS about 2 weeks lafter the attack.
 
What a terrible thing to happen and I feel for you. Glad it's all sorted out now. I found out that The dog Trust do and insurance for such situations, £25 per year (£12.50 for over 60s). I took it out as my Patterdale has got out twice. It covers car accidents and situations such as yours.
 
YasandCrystal said:
I am new to small dog ownership and now have 2 jackahuahuas who are tiny. I bought a handheld sonic device for the very purpose of preventing or breaking up a dog attack. I have just bought one for my daughter too. They seem to work as they emit a inaudible but very uncomfortable noise to dogs stopping them in their tracks. They are usually only walked on my land but the device means I will feel safer walking them publically.
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Interesting. Someone looked at air horn things for me after mine got attached and, tbh, where we live all dogs get very used to sirens and so forth so I didn't go with it as imagined it might not have that much effect once they were feeling the adrenaline. Are there any studies to show the sonic ones work even when dogs are attacking as opposed to just stopping them in day-to-day situations? I decided I'd definitely sacrifice another umbrella for my mutt... and get him well away from anything I didn't like the look of asap.

Clodagh - that is pretty horrible. Sorry for all concerned (and particularly the harrier).
 
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