Completely missing strides/ half strides while jumping

[emfen1305]

Please bare with me i'm new to this! Will keep it as short as poss.

I have a 9 year old 14'3 cob X who I bought last year. Before I got him he was just hacked out a bit but had never done any serious schooling or jumping until I got him. He has come on leaps and bounds and is so willing but I'm really starting to struggling with jumping.

We seem to never be on the right stride to the fence and his preferred method (mine too) is to get in to deep and then tuck his knees up and scramble over. This is ok for 60cm as they are small enough but as we get bigger it gets more uncomfortable and frankly scary! If I push the stride before we are far too far away and he has to really reach which is equally scary when it's an oxer.

I have tried canter poles but we can't even get the right stride to the canter pole which then messes up the next pole/fence. We seem to have a rhythmical canter but somehow it is always half a stride out. The same thing happens with grid work. I've tried a course of poles but we are either too deep or stretching.

Really my question is how do I get us onto the right stride? even totally leaving him alone doesn't help as he just gets far too deep (he needs a signal to take off or we crash through!). I've gone right back down to 50cm as my confidence is disappearing but we can't even get it right over that any advice/exercises would be greatly appreciated! I do have an instructor but it is a recent thing, he is going to ride him for me next week to see if he can help!

Sorry for the rambly question!

 

[be positive]

If you cannot get the correct stride over a pole on the ground then you need to work on that and build up to gridwork, the canter itself is probably not as good as it feels, you need a good rhythm but it needs to be covering enough ground and the strides should be level, half a stride wrong should be no problem until the fences become bigger, around 1m, as long as the canter is correct in the first place and not underpowered or flat.

I would go back to trotting into simple grids, use canter poles at the correct distances within flatwork sessions, ensure the basics are properly established and not move on to jumping single fences until you are more confident, he should not require you to tell him when to take off he should know how to take off without relying on you and that may be the main cause of the issues you are now having, the horse should jump the fence as long as the rider has brought it in straight and in a good enough pace so it can jump, the rider is in control of the approach the horse should be in control of the actual jump.
If it is a recent thing it may be that something else is going on, a sore back, sore feet, saddle or teeth not right can all cause the horse to change how they use themselves so it is worth doing all the normal checks.

 

[emfen1305]

Thanks! Yes I definitely think the canter needs work, I've been told he has quite a short stride and I've been working on trying lengthen it slightly and make the canter a bit more powerful but he gets unbalanced and rushes so I need to work on this.

I'll definely try some more canter poles and we tried some gridwork for the first time last week (his first ever time). I think I need to stop being hard on myself and him and stop expecting him to find it easy, he's only been in consistent work (6 days a week) for the last 8 months or so and I am no Mary king!

He has regular physio and I've had his saddle checked recently. Dentist is next on my list though he was briefly checked by my vet during a routine check in may he hasn't been done properly since Jan! Thanks for the advice!

 

[Mince Pie]

I found my lad also jumped 'up and down' when he was younger, I found putting up a couple of oxers helped him learn to stretch out a bit more. With the canter try collecting on the short end of the school and lengthening on the long side, put a pole across the track at F and M and then change how many strides you get between the poles - 8 then 5 etc. Or just take him for a good blast out hacking, he's still getting there

 

[FfionWinnie]

Are you having lessons with a decent jumping coach? You need to let him work it out for himself over canter poles, build up to grids then finally work on an adjustable canter. The early stages tho, imo, he needs to find his own feet.

I have been having lessons with a SJ coach for approaching 4 years and my 14.2 cob I've had for nearly 2 years can jump a metre track very comfortably but we still start each lesson with trotting poles then canter poles in the warm up. If you can't negotiate poles on the ground without issues, you can't jump safely.

 

[be positive]

Thanks! Yes I definitely think the canter needs work, I've been told he has quite a short stride and I've been working on trying lengthen it slightly and make the canter a bit more powerful but he gets unbalanced and rushes so I need to work on this.

I'll definely try some more canter poles and we tried some gridwork for the first time last week (his first ever time). I think I need to stop being hard on myself and him and stop expecting him to find it easy, he's only been in consistent work (6 days a week) for the last 8 months or so and I am no Mary king!

He has regular physio and I've had his saddle checked recently. Dentist is next on my list though he was briefly checked by my vet during a routine check in may he hasn't been done properly since Jan! Thanks for the advice!

Are you having lessons with a decent jumping coach? You need to let him work it out for himself over canter poles, build up to grids then finally work on an adjustable canter. The early stages tho, imo, he needs to find his own feet.

I have been having lessons with a SJ coach for approaching 4 years and my 14.2 cob I've had for nearly 2 years can jump a metre track very comfortably but we still start each lesson with trotting poles then canter poles in the warm up. If you can't negotiate poles on the ground without issues, you can't jump safely.

It always shocks me when someone says they have lessons and that the lessons involve jumping yet they have not done the basics of polework and gridwork, without the ability to trot and canter over poles on the ground and jump through small grids the horse is not ready to negotiate a course, get the basics in place before doing more, there is no point in the instructor riding if they do not give you the tools you require to ride the horse yourself, you need to go back to basics and get them better established and as FW says the polework needs to be continued with regularly.

 

[emfen1305]

It always shocks me when someone says they have lessons and that the lessons involve jumping yet they have not done the basics of polework and gridwork, without the ability to trot and canter over poles on the ground and jump through small grids the horse is not ready to negotiate a course, get the basics in place before doing more, there is no point in the instructor riding if they do not give you the tools you require to ride the horse yourself, you need to go back to basics and get them better established and as FW says the polework needs to be continued with regularly.

I appreciate it might seem backwards to be jumping but I'm talking a small cross pole, maybe a vertical with canter poles. We do polework at least 3 times a week as I always lunge with poles out (both trot and canter). We start with just canter poles then build a jump at the end, The canter poles he has no problem hence starting to build small jumps. We go back to the poles each time but as soon as a jump goes up we struggle and we can jump them as they are small but it doesn't feel correct. My instructor is riding him because I think it is me causing the problem rather than to school him, I'm a big believer in doing things myself.

Thanks for your advice i will just go back to canter and trot poles for now with no jumping until we can hit single poles on the right stride. Thanks both

 

[emfen1305]

Are you having lessons with a decent jumping coach? You need to let him work it out for himself over canter poles, build up to grids then finally work on an adjustable canter. The early stages tho, imo, he needs to find his own feet.

I have been having lessons with a SJ coach for approaching 4 years and my 14.2 cob I've had for nearly 2 years can jump a metre track very comfortably but we still start each lesson with trotting poles then canter poles in the warm up. If you can't negotiate poles on the ground without issues, you can't jump safely.

I have tried a few different instructors from a wide range of disciplines, he specialised in working hunter so I think it is a good match.

I'll continue to lunge him over the poles and stay off his back while jumping for a bit until he can sort himself out, I think he is relying on me too much! Thanks!

 

[FfionWinnie]

It always shocks me when someone says they have lessons and that the lessons involve jumping yet they have not done the basics of polework and gridwork, without the ability to trot and canter over poles on the ground and jump through small grids the horse is not ready to negotiate a course, get the basics in place before doing more, there is no point in the instructor riding if they do not give you the tools you require to ride the horse yourself, you need to go back to basics and get them better established and as FW says the polework needs to be continued with regularly.

I regularly end up sharing with people who are doing BS and BE and they can't put their horse through a very simple grid. I on the other hand am the grid queen but don't have the balls for BS or BE, ha!

Anyway OP I wouldn't really bother lunging over poles too much as he has to learn with you on his back. I would do the canter poles then add a small fence on the last pole and build that up into a grid. Only move on a stage when he is able to canter through it as if it's just poles on the ground. Keep your eyes up and don't try and adjust him or see a stride. You just want the same canter all the way through. Make sure you are going through straight and ride away from it straight. Leaving a video camera facing the poles end on so you can see if you are straight is a rather useful tool.

 

[emfen1305]

I regularly end up sharing with people who are doing BS and BE and they can't put their horse through a very simple grid. I on the other hand am the grid queen but don't have the balls for BS or BE, ha!

Anyway OP I wouldn't really bother lunging over poles too much as he has to learn with you on his back. I would do the canter poles then add a small fence on the last pole and build that up into a grid. Only move on a stage when he is able to canter through it as if it's just poles on the ground. Keep your eyes up and don't try and adjust him or see a stride. You just want the same canter all the way through. Make sure you are going through straight and ride away from it straight. Leaving a video camera facing the poles end on so you can see if you are straight is a rather useful tool.

Ironically when we are out and about we don't have any of these problems, he is very forward and willing and we have a great time around a small course however I have been competing at 50-60cm all summer now and wanted to try and move up but wanted to jump bigger at home first so it wasn't a shock and this is where it started to go wrong!

The video camera is a great idea, I have just got a go pro so I want to try and record myself more! Thanks!

 

[chestnut cob]

It sounds to me like it's a problem with your canter. Mine only ever gets on the wrong stride when I've either chased him into the fence (flat, fast canter) or strangled him (too slow and loses impulsion). It might be worth trying a different instructor to get someone else's view of how you can improve your canter.

 

[muddy_grey]

It is all about the canter! It shouldn't matter if you are a little bit close or far off if the canter is right. Is he really responsive to your leg? When jumping you need them to react as soon as you ask. When you are schooling be really strict with yourself leg on, he goes AND is active straight away. A lot of people think their horse is responsive because the horse trots when they put their leg on, but the trot is drivelling along, you want "jump" in the upwards transitions.
As others have said canter poles and grids are great. He does not need a signal to take off. He should go and take off no matter where you are, especially as an amateurs horse. Start with poles and then tiny grids and make sure he is taking you through them.

 

[ljohnsonsj]

Agree with everybody about the canter. It's the most important part of jumping and with a decent canter you should hit right on every stride, and even if you are a bit wrong slightly closer or slightly off you will have enough power beneath you to make it with no real problem. Canter poles & grids like everyone else has said will make the world of difference to you.

 

[emfen1305]

It is all about the canter! It shouldn't matter if you are a little bit close or far off if the canter is right. Is he really responsive to your leg? When jumping you need them to react as soon as you ask. When you are schooling be really strict with yourself leg on, he goes AND is active straight away. A lot of people think their horse is responsive because the horse trots when they put their leg on, but the trot is drivelling along, you want "jump" in the upwards transitions.
As others have said canter poles and grids are great. He does not need a signal to take off. He should go and take off no matter where you are, especially as an amateurs horse. Start with poles and then tiny grids and make sure he is taking you through them.

Responsiveness is definitely an issue sometimes, one rein is better than the other. I had a bad experience with an instructor last year who told me he was lazy and so I fell into the habit of nagging every stride which she never picked up on to correct me. It turns out he is not lazy in the sense that she was describing it was more that he just wasn't responding quickly on the initial ask which meant the trot was drivelling along as you put it! i will continue with canter poles and trying not to interfere and let him sort himself out! Thank you

 

[emfen1305]

It sounds to me like it's a problem with your canter. Mine only ever gets on the wrong stride when I've either chased him into the fence (flat, fast canter) or strangled him (too slow and loses impulsion). It might be worth trying a different instructor to get someone else's view of how you can improve your canter.

I definitely agree, I very much override up to the fence because i don't feel like he has the power to make it over the jump when realistically he could step over as it is only about 50cm so of course he isn't going to come bounding in. I think this then confuses him and he panics because i'm panicking! I might try and get someone with more confidence in jumping to have a ride around on the flat to see what they think! Thanks

 

[emfen1305]

Agree with everybody about the canter. It's the most important part of jumping and with a decent canter you should hit right on every stride, and even if you are a bit wrong slightly closer or slightly off you will have enough power beneath you to make it with no real problem. Canter poles & grids like everyone else has said will make the world of difference to you.

Thank you i will try some canter poles at weekend and focus on that!

 

[FfionWinnie]

Shared a lesson with a nice bu novicey lady once with a rather famously cutting coach who yelled at her something along the lines of "hup, hup?? Why are you telling the horse when to jump, it's not blind woman!" Which is a good point 😂

 

[emfen1305]

Shared a lesson with a nice bu novicey lady once with a rather famously cutting coach who yelled at her something along the lines of "hup, hup?? Why are you telling the horse when to jump, it's not blind woman!" Which is a good point ��

Ha very true come to think of it, I feel silly that I said I felt the need to tell him when to take off, I think it makes me feel better thinking that I am doing something about it, he's probably thinking "what the hell are you doing woman, leave me be"

 

[FfionWinnie]

We all do it!