Compromise

rafferty

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After reading all the post on the subject of hunting. I wonder if a compromise would be possible.

Howabout a return to hunting with hounds but for each hunt to be monitored by 2 LACS officials who would ensure everything is kept above board.
Hunts could agree not to block, release or dig.
Hunt monitors could ensure that the hunt kept to a code of practice whereby healthy foxes had a chance to escape but older, injured or weak foxes were killed in a way that although distasteful to the majority is a better option to the snare or poision.
Ok both side feel free to rip me apart.
 

rafferty

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The outfit itself is not that bad, I presume its what the image conjures up that people may find offensive.
 

rafferty

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Well being Pro, I'd of thought a compromise would be a better option for you than for the Antis.
According to this forum the kill is not the most important part of the hunt. I didn't think the hunt needed to or professed to kill every fox in sight.
Why the need to dig ?
 

rafferty

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I tried to come on hear with an open mind. I thought it was the Antis who were rude and aggressive.

The part I dont understand is that it goes against a lot of the 'for' arguements on here and also because digging out is cruel, its dog fighting or badger baiting by any other name.

oh and it's which, which part......
 

CARREG

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Im sorry if I come across as rather blunt just my way I suppose. Now you say you tried to come on here[ its here not hear] with an open mind and then state that "digging out is cruel, its dog fighting or badger baiting by any other name". So much for an open mind, you obviously know very little if anything at all about properly conducted terrierwork.............Carreg
 

rafferty

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No I don't know anything about terrier work, I would like to know more. I'll admit to liking badgers and as far as I'm aware they have some protection.
If its a case of sending a dog down a hole to drag out a fox then I would stick to my original quote about badger baiting and dog fighting. I have come on here with an open mind and would like to hear from someone more knowledgeable.
 

CARREG

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No, that isnt correct, having fun is about sh1t an giggles, I take all my pest control activities very seriously.............Carreg
 

combat_claire

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There are many different reasons why people hunt - this forum by its very nature attracts horse riders whose motivation may well lean more to towards the equestrian enjoyment of hunting, equally there are people like myself who foot follow for the pleasure of the hound work and the chance to bike over areas normally closed to the public, then there are the people like Carreg who are involved with farming communities and believe that pest control is the priority.

Terrierwork is carried out at the request of the landowner - pre-ban some would have wanted the fox disposed of no matter what and others would prefer that it wasn't dug. Hunting offered a pest control service, but this is just one aspect of hunting. I don't see how Carreg's differing priorities are in the least bit contradictory or less valuable than someone who hunts mainly for a good gallop cross country.
 

rafferty

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From reading previous posts I had the impression that most of the people who hunted enjoyed the gallop etc.
surley terrier work is soley to do with setting a dog on a fox. Now this maybe be kinder as opposed to snares and poison. However if I just picture it as I have never witnessed it, it comes across as a very unpleasant activity.
I was also wandering what happens if a fox entered a badger set or would it not, also do hunts block badger sets.
 

combat_claire

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It has been estimated that for every person who follows foxhounds/harriers on a horse, there are another 10 who are following in cars, on their feet or on bicycles and quads. That is before you take account of those following the foot packs of beagles, bassets and mink hounds.

I listed my two main reasons why I go hunting in my previous post - to watch hounds working and to access areas that are not normally in bounds to the general public. I also enjoy the challenge of trying to guess where the huntsman is going to draw so I can get into a good position (rather akin to an uneven game of hide and seek), it is an excellent way to see wildlife, get fresh air and socialise and a real buzz when you are whizzing along on two wheels getting caked in mud. If you don't believe me, give it a go!

I am not an expert on terrier work, however I believe that all terriermen employed by hunts must be registered with the MFHA, have an ID card + firearms cert plus abide by a strict code of conduct. The following is taken from - http://www.mfha.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=emailform&id=66

There is more info regarding how terrier work is undertaken, but you can read that at your leisure.

"The terrier’s purpose is to locate the fox so that the terrier man can swiftly dig down to the fox and shoot it with a humane killer. Alternatively the fox may be either bolted into a net and dispatched or, as with the gun packs, into the open and shot using a shotgun. A fox that has been hunted to ground or that is pregnant, nursing cubs, injured or sick is unlikely to bolt. MFHA rules prohibit the bolting and re-hunting of a fox that has been hunted to ground in a natural earth. (MFHA Rule 12(2))."

I'm convinced from the various hunt terrier men that I have met that they have the welfare of their dogs at heart. After a particularly cold and soggy day on the river last season our poor minky terrier man was seen stripped down to his tee shirt and shivering while his terrier was snug as a bug in a rug, wrapped up in his brand new fleece!
 

Scratchline

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I'm convinced from the various hunt terrier men that I have met that they have the welfare of their dogs at heart. After a particularly cold and soggy day on the river last season our poor minky terrier man was seen stripped down to his tee shirt and shivering while his terrier was snug as a bug in a rug, wrapped up in his brand new fleece!
No doubt his dog was suffering from hypovolaemic shock caused by unecessary suffering. This type of shock being the main killer of all dogs involved in fighting other animals. If welfare was the main concern he wouldnt have allowed his dog to get ill in the first place!

The wounds inflicted on these terriers are exactly the same as on pit bulls in the pit. The suffering at the time and in the following days is the same. Terrier work and dog fighting are the same other than in dog fighting both animals are bred and trained for the battle. Foxes are wild animals, terrified and fighting for their lives not for pleasure like fighting dogs!
 

CARREG

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..."The wounds inflicted on these terriers are exactly the same as on pit bulls in the pit. The suffering at the time and in the following days is the same. Terrier work and dog fighting are the same other than in dog fighting both animals are bred and trained for the battle. Foxes are wild animals, terrified and fighting for their lives not for pleasure like fighting dogs!....."

Why do antis believe that a terrier has to fight with a fox for it to bolt or be dug, I have veteran terriers in my kennels with years of work behind them without a mark on them..............Carreg
 

combat_claire

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I think you will find it was just chilly from the unseasonably cold and wet weather, without having access to a towel the next best option was to use a jumper. Terrier is fine and well.

Of course that doesn't fit in with your stereotypical image of wicked, uncaring hunters and those evil terriermen, so instead you make up the facts to suit yourself.
 

Scratchline

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[quoteWhy do antis believe that a terrier has to fight with a fox for it to bolt or be dug, I have veteran terriers in my kennels with years of work behind them without a mark on them..............Carreg [/quote]

You may, the majority do not!
 

Scratchline

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Of course that doesn't fit in with your stereotypical image of wicked, uncaring hunters and those evil terriermen, so instead you make up the facts to suit yourself.
It was a fair enough assessment given the few details you had at the time provided.
 

rafferty

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careg were you unable or unwilling to answer my questions.

"From reading previous posts I had the impression that most of the people who hunted enjoyed the gallop etc.
surley terrier work is soley to do with setting a dog on a fox. Now this maybe be kinder as opposed to snares and poison. However if I just picture it as I have never witnessed it, it comes across as a very unpleasant activity.
I was also wandering what happens if a fox entered a badger set or would it not, also do hunts block badger sets."
 

CARREG

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Sorry, I didnt realise your questions were aimed soley at me, if a fox entered a badger sette it would be left alone, its illegal to enter a terrier into an active badger sette for whatever reason, as for blocking badger settes I believe there are strict rules where blocking settes is concerned Im not fully clued up on them because its something none of the hunts Ive been involved in have ever practised, hope these answers help............Carreg
 

rafferty

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Thanks, yes it does I'm trying to come to a rational conclusion from what I read.
I'm not questioning your integrity but would you say most terrier men stick to the rules.
 

Hebegebe

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No I don't know anything about terrier work, I would like to know more. I'll admit to liking badgers and as far as I'm aware they have some protection.
If its a case of sending a dog down a hole to drag out a fox then I would stick to my original quote about badger baiting and dog fighting. I have come on here with an open mind and would like to hear from someone more knowledgeable.
I don't think the dog drags out a fox it flushes the fox out which is then shot.

I personally don't allow the hunt to dog out on my land but as carreg says if your aim is 'pest control' then it is a way of maximising the number of foxes killed.
 

CARREG

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How many terriermen do you know well enough to have visited their kennels or are you going by what you've read elsewhere.............Carreg
 
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