Condition mix vs Cheap mix

Mypinkpony

Mypinkpony

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Mine is currently on baileys 17 conditioning mix plus balancer......is there much difference between a named mix and the normal cheap mix from local feed supplies, it's half the price and as much as i'll feed anything if it works im just not convinced it does. my friend feeds hers on pony nuts and alfa a and they look fab, great shiny coats and enough energy, just as good as mine on balancer, no 17 and alfra a oil. :confused:
 
Conditioning mix will have more calories in it than a basic mix but otherwise probably much the same basic ingredients, if your horse needs more condition and the feed it not doing this it may be that it finds the cereal content hard to digest and the feed does not suit him. If you are feeding the correct quantity of a mix you should not need the balancer, I would suggest you take a look at changing the whole diet for one that is more fibre based and with oil for condition rather than cereals.
Nuts are often more easily digested than mixes so that may be why the others look good, more fibre and oil, less cereal. A good hifi or Fast Fibre, oil and balancer with plenty of hay/ grass would be the place to start.
 
he really gets all the condition he needs from the alfra a oil really, i was told to put him on high fibre high protein for muscle, he desperatly needs muscle tone, so i put him on fast fibre and stud balancer but hes really lazy so added mix for energy. he's just come off the fast fibre as they have gone in the new field which has tons of grass and dont want him getting a belly. :( his feeds are too 'fussy' arent they, i can see that writting it down lol.... what would u suggest?
 
I don't tend to feed the expensive brands because *IME* they aren't worth it.

If I have something that needs a bit more condition I usually feed a straight (barley usually) with a balancer, usually Blue Chip Original, the only name brand I fo bother with :D
Depending on the horse/work I may add sugar beet, or if they're looking poor then I add Copra, which is a coconut oil/meal type thing which I believe is now called Coolstance.

If I have something that's being v picky/off it or needs a boost I inject vitamin b12 but I do NOT recommend this unless u know what you are doing and check with vet/nutritionist as vitamins can be v dangerous.

And that's as complicated as it gets for me.....but always based around a straight like barley which is cheap and v effective

:D
 
This is him if that helps?
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Ive had him 6 months, his lunged in side reins or pessoa once or twice a week, fed from the floor and worked long and low as much as poss but still a looooonnng way to go so really wanna get his feed right. I've never found it so hard with a horse or maybe im just over thinking it. :confused:
 
I should think they're both pack full of sugar and starch, so neither are particularly suitable feeds for a horse, imo. :)
 
How about alpha a oil, fast fibre and some whole oats (or naked oats?)....? maybe a vit and min supplement too...
 
If you want to compare the two feeds have a look on the back of the bag but if you're happy that the alpha oil is maintaining his condition then I would just feed that and a standard balancer. Alfalfa is quite high in protein and you really don't want to be giving him a lot. His muscles will develop over time with correct work and feeding too much protein can cause all sorts of problems.
 
Mypinkpony said:
How about alpha a oil, fast fibre and some whole oats (or naked oats?)....? maybe a vit and min supplement too...
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Sounds good. Oats are a good feed for horses, if fed in proportion to work :) whole or crushed should be fine. Copra is also a high energy feed, and most horses find it very palatable.
 
I fed Dodson and horrell build and glow to my veteran horse at work that needed muscle tone weight and energy. He looked amazing on it it also had Alfa a and pony nuts. It is quite expensive but don't need a lot of it as I prefer smaller feeds and more hay but still wanted him to have the calories .
 
He's a very very nervous spooky horse but very lazy in the school so the oats shouldn't make him any worse should they...as in spooking and panicking?
 
Mypinkpony said:
He's a very very nervous spooky horse but very lazy in the school so the oats shouldn't make him any worse should they...as in spooking and panicking?
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It completely depends on what is causing the spookiness; you never know until you try. Nervousness is often caused by imbalances in the calcium:magnesium mineral ratio. Phosphorus (contained in oats) is also involved in this mineral ratio, and may have either a positive or negative effect, depending on what (if anything) your horse is deficient in. Have you tried adding about 15g per day of magnesium oxide to his feed?
 
Yes he was on top spec calmer which contains mag but the last box finishs in a month and want to give it a break so i can see the change, if any, in him. he panics when he thinks horses are leaving him, and just generally spooks at most stuff. he has got 10 times better but thats due to me doing lots of ground work (taupalin/balls all the scary stuff etc). I was thinking to try magnitude next?
 
Mypinkpony said:
Yes he was on top spec calmer which contains mag but the last box finishs in a month and want to give it a break so i can see the change, if any, in him. he panics when he thinks horses are leaving him, and just generally spooks at most stuff. he has got 10 times better but thats due to me doing lots of ground work (taupalin/balls all the scary stuff etc). I was thinking to try magnitude next?
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Hmm, I reckon neither of those would supply enough magnesium to really test whether you have a deficiency. It's cheaper and more effective just to buy straight MgO and feed at least 15g of it a day. If you see an improvement then the horse needed the Mg... if you don't, then you know you don't have to bother with all those Mg based calmers :).
 
TBH I would not feed any mix to him at all, especially if he is spooky, it is much better for condition to feed fibre and oil to this kind of horse. Some horses react to alfalfa in this way so it may be an idea to try one of the grass bases chaffs like Just Grass or Graze On (very similar in protein/calcium/DE to Alfalfa). I would keep the balancer but perhaps add something oil based, I like Triple Crown Triple Top Up, which is a powdered oil (soya) containing the necessary selenium needed when feeding extra oil, or you can add soya oil, although it is sometimes a little unpalatable, which is why I use TTU. Another good conditioning feed is TopSpec Cool Condition Cubes, pure fibre but with a good DE of around 11.

In general, look for a fibre only feed that has a DE of 11-12, anything around 10 is purely maintenance and under 10 (6-8) is for losing weight. Fast Fibre for instance is under 10 but because it is fibre it allows the horse to utilise his/her feed more efficiently, which is why you sometimes find horses put on weight when on it. It is actually targetted at good doers and laminitics when fed alone.

Protein is very rarely a problem, it is starch that you need to avoid.

As for cheap mixes, sorry but would not touch them, the ingredients MAY be similar but the quality generally is not, which is why they are cheap!

ETA: Be careful when feeding magnesium, it can interfere with the uptake of calcium (just like phosphorous does), if your horse is NOT deficient it could cause problems, too much magnesium can also make spooky behaviour worse if the horse is not actually deficient.
 
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TwoStroke said:
Hmm, I reckon neither of those would supply enough magnesium to really test whether you have a deficiency. It's cheaper and more effective just to buy straight MgO and feed at least 15g of it a day. If you see an improvement then the horse needed the Mg... if you don't, then you know you don't have to bother with all those Mg based calmers :).
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Ok i'm going to get some then.....is the 85% one ok, i'll feed 20g a day of it. also thinking of getting valerian root or cordial, i'm never going to get to affliated with him so wont be an issue competing. Everyone has recommended Naturalhorsesupplies and they sell both there. :)
 
Amaranta said:
TBH I would not feed any mix to him at all, especially if he is spooky, it is much better for condition to feed fibre and oil to this kind of horse. Some horses react to alfalfa in this way so it may be an idea to try one of the grass bases chaffs like Just Grass or Graze On (very similar in protein/calcium/DE to Alfalfa). I would keep the balancer but perhaps add something oil based, I like Triple Crown Triple Top Up, which is a powdered oil (soya) containing the necessary selenium needed when feeding extra oil, or you can add soya oil, although it is sometimes a little unpalatable, which is why I use TTU. Another good conditioning feed is TopSpec Cool Condition Cubes, pure fibre but with a good DE of around 11.

In general, look for a fibre only feed that has a DE of 11-12, anything around 10 is purely maintenance and under 10 (6-8) is for losing weight. Fast Fibre for instance is under 10 but because it is fibre it allows the horse to utilise his/her feed more efficiently, which is why you sometimes find horses put on weight when on it. It is actually targetted at good doers and laminitics when fed alone.

Protein is very rarely a problem, it is starch that you need to avoid.

As for cheap mixes, sorry but would not touch them, the ingredients MAY be similar but the quality generally is not, which is why they are cheap!

ETA: Be careful when feeding magnesium, it can interfere with the uptake of calcium (just like phosphorous does), if your horse is NOT deficient it could cause problems, too much magnesium can also make spooky behaviour worse if the horse is not actually deficient.
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I find that really interesting what you have said about fast fibre! I always wondered why its advertised for good doers yet i always have some handy in case mine ever start to look a bit too ribby, i use it as weight gain! so it actually just helps them get everything out of their feed then as opposed to being weight gain alone? I quite like the sound of that.

Ok so if i feed him chaff (gonna stick to alfra a oil as i love it :D), baileys stud balancer and a fibre feed plus some calming supplements. The only thing i'm worried about is he is very lazy, so will this provide the right energy for him? should i add an oil for energy instead of mix?

also you said is he isnt deficient i could make him worse by feeding mag, how would i find that out...:confused:

Sorry for all the questions....you have all been a massive help! Thankyou soooo much:D
 
I would feed him (based on what you've said) -

Alfa a oil
Micronized (crushed) barley
Blue chip original

Simple and balanced.
Alfa a because it's a good feed and clearly works for you.
Barley rather than oats, because it is slow release energy and shouldn't light him up too much.
Blue Chip because it's the best balancer you can get IME and is good value if you feed it at the levels they say.

If he's under 6, or needs more condition I would add a little sugar beet to this, as it is higher calcium, which cereals (the barley) are low in. Don't worry too much about this though as he will get it from the Blue Chip.

Feed this for month with no supplements and see how his behaviour is. If you still think he could be deficient in something ie magnesium, then please please PLEASE get him blood tested (£55ish) to see what he is actually deficient IN, before adding anything else.

Please don't just buy vitamins etc and dose it yourself - can be so so dangerous if not done correctly.

Good luck with it :)

Oh and be VERY wary of nutritionists who work for feed companies - it is their job to try and sell you their own products, whether they suit your horse or not.
 
ok sounds all good to me, I might as well finish his calmer (topspec) and balancer and mix then take him off it all, all runs out throughout the next month

So you think bluechip is the best to go for....and original not pro? ive only used baileys stud and top spec comp. They contain mag dont they so shouldnt need to add it really anyway.

OOOOHHHHHH i hope this works, love this horse to pieces but it's like sitting on a merrygo round! :p
 
TwoStroke said:
I should think they're both pack full of sugar and starch, so neither are particularly suitable feeds for a horse, imo. :)
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I agree, and would look at alternatives to mix, I took a tb to very poor to right in two months on fast fibre and chaff
 
My understanding is that Fast fibre is for good doers, to prevent them getting fatter, not to make them good doers.
It also is high in fibre, mins and vits so if you find it puts weight on it may be that you are not feeding enough grub over all!
I have turned round my feed regime since studying the barefoot regime, it is high in fibre and low in sugars AND has vitamins and minerals every day.
To be honest OP your boy looks as though he needs more regular work to build muscle, I am not a fan of pessoa or any such gadget, am in favour of schooling by a good rider, good quality feed and all year round turnout.
You don't mention work, overall feed, worming, teeth, age, breed, and so on!
 
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Barley can send some horses potty! If you are feeding topspec balancer, you shouldnt really be putting the baileys on top?

I have fed cheap mix and nuts quite happily. In fact my horse quite thrived on £5.50 cheap bag of nuts.
 
Miss L Toe said:
My understanding is that Fast fibre is for good doers, to prevent them getting fatter, not to make them good doers.
It also is high in fibre, mins and vits so if you find it puts weight on it may be that you are not feeding enough grub over all!
I have turned round my feed regime since studying the barefoot regime, it is high in fibre and low in sugars AND has vitamins and minerals every day.
To be honest OP your boy looks as though he needs more regular work to build muscle, I am not a fan of pessoa or any such gadget, am in favour of schooling by a good rider, good quality feed and all year round turnout.
You don't mention work, overall feed, worming, teeth, age, breed, and so on!
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Sorry i wasn't saying it would make him a good doer, i was saying i didn't (until this thread) understand how i feed i used for weight gain would be advertised for a good doer, thought they would just ballon on it.

He's ridden/lunged/free schooled 7 days a week....prob lunged once(trot no canter for approx 10 mins each rein just to build the right muscles), jumped twice, schooled once (he can't handle any more), hacked the rest of the time.... turned out approx 8 hours a day, fed 1 wedge horsehage along with a large hay net,you can see his feeds in my thread, strict worming routine on yard, teeth up to date(done couple weeks ago), 11 years, Trakehner...anything else?
 
wench said:
Barley can send some horses potty! If you are feeding topspec balancer, you shouldnt really be putting the baileys on top?

I have fed cheap mix and nuts quite happily. In fact my horse quite thrived on £5.50 cheap bag of nuts.
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he's on half portions of balancer and mix to make the correct amount, i checked this with baileys first. :D

I have too, then i get caught up in 'advertising'....but i think with him, i'll steer clear of the mixes and see how he goes...gonna be a tad scared to see how he is on the barley too....:p
 
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