Condition Scoring a Fat Cob

bubbilygum

bubbilygum

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There is a little more info about me and my horse here if anyone is interested: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=512122

My horse has been on box rest since the start of November, initially with Laminitis, then he came sound again, then became very lame again (looked like laminitis but digital pulse had gone, as had heat in feet). Have had x-rays done, slight sidebones but nothing which would cause lameness, also tested for EMS and Cushings, all within normal limits, and nerve blocked, which was inconclusive as the vet became more interested in testing for EMS than continuing with the nerve blocks, which to be honest made sense at the time as he has all the characteristics of a horse with EMS except actual insulin resistance!

I've attached a couple of (bad, sorry) photographs of him as I am a little confused about how to condition score him. The vet wants him to drop a lot of weight still but I am concerned she thinks if I starve him a lithe, lean racehorse will appear in his stable after a few months, which really isn't going to happen. I can see he has a crest and a fat bum but I can also see his ribs! I went away for the weekend and the yard staff looked after him and when I came back one of them said he was looking a little on the lean side for his type... Its so confusing! He is now sound but will be on box rest until the end of February.

Any comments anyone has on these photos would be very much appreciated (except ones about him being on the grubby side, he needs a bath and reclipping but the cold weather and box rest have deemed these things a bit awkward!). Too fat? Too thin? About right? Should I keep restricting his food or maintain him at this weight until he can start exercising again? Sorry the pictures are so bad, I will try to enlist someone with a decent camera to come and take some photos while I hold him!



 
How much are you feeding him? And what?

You can see the outline of his ribs which is good - but are you now able to ride him??
 
Yup you can definitely see his ribs, and his crest and apple bum.

IMHO I would be guided by the vet and get some more weight off him - assuming that is that you are using an equine vet and not a small animal vet.
 
I cant see the pictures but would advise anyway you take him into the vet and have him weighted then you know exactly where you are.
our ID weighted 733 kilos following box rest last he was weighted just before Christmas he had lost 100 kilos and is a little lighter now I would say.if you get them on the weight bridge at the vets you can immediately use a tape see what it reads and use it as a gauge the weight loss.
Both our cobs are out by quite a bit on a tape so wiegh in at vets now and again. They don't charge me for this I ring the surgery and as long as they are not rushed off there feet they are happy to do it.
 
Ok seen pics now , definatly get him weighed I would want him lighter but you may need to exercise it off after box rest has ended.
 
His crest does look big, but overall considering he is on box rest and not getting much exercise I would be fairly happy with him at that weight.

What does his diet consist of?
 
definitely could lose more, but he's not what I'd call worryingly fat now. I'd want him verging on skinny before the spring grass, personally.
 
Thanks for all your replies! I agree that he still needs to lose some weight (crest especially) but I don't think he is quite the obesity crisis case my vet thinks he is! Ideally I would like to work the rest of the weight off him and allow him to put some muscle back on, but I can't ride him yet, the vet and the remedial farrier he had (who just put leather pads on his feet) want him to stay in for now as there isn't any rotation of the pedal bone now, but they want it to stay that way. I'm a bit confused as if he isn't showing any signs of lameness or laminitis then surely his pedal bones aren't any more likely to rotate than any other horse's pedal bones but I have agreed to keep him in until the end of the month!
I am feeding him two haynets per day (total of 6kg hay) and roughly 1.5kg of fast fibre with a multivitamin and a handful of hifi light to make it less mushy. He is also on one bute per day. I estimated his weight at about 600kg and the weight tape agrees. No transport to get to a weigh bridge unfortunately, but have considered paying for someone to bring a transportable one to me... Other than that I have just been measuring him!
 
If you wish to keep his forage intake reasonable (in terms of mass) you could cut his hay with straw. My highlands live off straw to keep them from resembling hippos...

If he's still on bute, you don't really know whether he's truly sound yet, so best wait before thinking about further work etc :)
 
JFTD said:
If you wish to keep his forage intake reasonable (in terms of mass) you could cut his hay with straw. My highlands live off straw to keep them from resembling hippos...

If he's still on bute, you don't really know whether he's truly sound yet, so best wait before thinking about further work etc :)
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Agree 100%
 
Do you know what age he was cut at? My boy was cut late, 5, and he has never lost his crest and is by now means fat you can define every muscle on his body, great for the show ring!!!;);)
 
He looks a typical metabolic horse to me - fat over the neck and backside and thin over the ribs. Personally I wouldn't be fooled by the ribbyness, but go by the fat areas and get some more weight off.
 
JFTD said:
If you wish to keep his forage intake reasonable (in terms of mass) you could cut his hay with straw. My highlands live off straw to keep them from resembling hippos...

If he's still on bute, you don't really know whether he's truly sound yet, so best wait before thinking about further work etc :)
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We tried mixing his hay with straw but he just didn't eat at all! I agree about the bute, I am going to take him off the Bute tomorrow and save a few sachets just in case he comes lame again but fingers crossed he will stay sound! I took the pads off his feet yesterday (well he took one off himself so thought I had better remove the other) and there has been no change in him either way, but have kept the pads in case I need to put them back on. It's so frustrating seeing him so much perkier and more sound and still stuck in his box, and frustrating for him too, but hopefully his patience will pay off in the long run, bless him!
 
As JFTD and Amymay but just to point out that you say you want to work the rest off him - but you can't do that so you are better trying to slim him some more and have him very trim for when his box rest finishes and he can start to work - because you're not presumably going to be doing anymore than a few minutes walking building up for several weeks once he is back in work.
 
I'm a bit confused that you're a bit confused :) If he is on a maintenance 1 bute per day then that's most probably why he appears sound.

I'd stop feeding him hardfeed if he were mine or if you need to use some to get medication/supplements into him I'd just give a handful. I think once he's back in work it'll improve him.
 
amymay said:
He will do when he gets hungry enough.

Been there, done it and didn't give in.
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I was just going to say that...

A bit of patience now and you will reap the benefits come summer - it's not like anyone can get any real riding done in this weather anyway, summer's where the good times are, so you have plenty of time :)
 
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touchstone said:
He looks a typical metabolic horse to me - fat over the neck and backside and thin over the ribs. Personally I wouldn't be fooled by the ribbyness, but go by the fat areas and get some more weight off.
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He really is the typical metabolic horse! Fatty deposits, drinks loads, eats whatever is within reach... I was surprised when his blood results came back as negative for EMS, and to be honest I am treating him as if he DOES have EMS for now as it seems to be a sensible diet which it helping get the weight off.
 
kirstykate said:
Do you know what age he was cut at? My boy was cut late, 5, and he has never lost his crest and is by now means fat you can define every muscle on his body, great for the show ring!!!;);)
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No idea when he was cut, I got him at seven (he's now 17) and he was cut then BUT the first vet I had out to him said he was almost certainly cut late and possibly even allowed to mount mares as he is VERY stallion like... He will try to mount mares in season (usually gets told off for it, by me and the mare), is very dominant with other geldings, squeals and stomps his feet when he so much as sees a new horse, marks other horses poo/wee with his own. A stallion was put into a field next to him once and he went BALLISTIC, we had to take them both out and put them elsewhere, I was convinced they would fight to the death if they got in with each other. Many vets have told me that his crest may not go due to his stallion-like attributes but others have said that is rubbish!
 
kirstykate said:
I would say it wont go then, my boy is fit/eventing fit and it never goes!:p

He could even be a rig???
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I did ask my vet about this and the vet said it was highly unlikely given his size, as generally ponies are more likely to be rigs. I guess this is due to it being easier to miss a testicle in a pony as they are smaller?! I don't know how true this is, and it was 10 years ago now...! The vet said I could have tests done if I really wanted but said due to how unlikely it was that he was a rig there wasn't much point. I figured that if the vet said there wasn't any point testing him then there probably wasn't! His stallion like behaviour isn't that much of an issue either, he is kept out with geldings or on his own, and his squealing is more comical than anything else!
 
I agree with the mixing of hay and straw he wont starve himself he will eat when he has to .
I had to take drastic action to get mine to lose weight .
 
Well theres a simple diagnostic you can carry out yourself that won't cost you any vet bills - do what your vet advises and get him leaner. If he makes an improvement, then he needs to be kept lean.

Allowing a horse to get fat, changes their metabolism, they store fat differently, they use fat differently. The only way you can reverse the changes it to get him lean (hopefully sound) get him fit and get him back to normal.

A condition score is made up from an average of the different areas... even though your boy is sporting ribs, he's is still about a 3.5 verging or perhaps slightly more (hard to judge in photos) A condition score of 2.5 is perfectly acceptable healthwise, even for a heavy cob ... and no, you won't get anywhere in the showring, he won't have 'bloom' or look 'round and pleasing', and if his ribs are well sprung, then they may well show, but if his diet, genetics or management has preconditioned him to unsoundness as a result of his condition... then that unfortunately is something you are going to have to come to terms with.

There is no harm in keeping you horse on the lean side for health reasons, he's not going to starve, and its not cruel.

I certainly would have him leaner, and especially with spring beckoning.
 
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