Conditions in which to PTS, opinions?

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aj18

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I'm asking as I'm genuinely interested in peoples opinions on when to PTS?
Obviously there have been a lot of opinions shared on the Minxy situation & I've noticed a few other threads on people asking about what to do with older horses.
Basically, other than due to injuries or other medical issues, when do you think it is appropriate to put down an animal rather than sell on, loan, retire or maybe give it to a rescue centre?
I must admit, I’ve been blessed with a family interested in animals & the general thought is that our animals will stay with us until their time & if euthanasia is needed then so be it but we would never put an animal down just because it is getting old. This isn’t a judgement for anyone who wants to or has had their horse put down to prevent them getting hauled off to the meat man or any other outcome, this is just a statement of what our way of doing things is.
 
I'd also never put an animal down just because it is getting old, but if that animal was struggling and old or in pain and old then yes, I'd probably make that decision. Much better to go before an animal really deteriorates to the point of not being able to get up in my opinion.

Personally I'd never rehome to a charity, they are my animals and my responsiblity and I feel that charities should be supporting those really in need, not those whose owners who want rid of their responsibilites, I'd rather they pts an eldely animal than did that. There are many young horses that also face being pts that deserve a chance of life too.

If pts was the only way of guaranteeing my horse's future for whatever reason, then I'd do that too.

A place where I worked had all the oldies pts when work was getting too much for them and horses/ponies were struggling with lameness/illness. As a business it just wasn't viable to keep all the pensioners with problems, and a successful business would soon have started to struggle with all the hungry mouths to feed and no return from them. It sounds harsh but it was true.

At the end of the day those horses and ponies had a good life, they were never sold on if right for the job, some spent from unbroken youngsters to late twenties there. They faced no pain or suffering and we knew that we'd never have to worry about what was happening to them once the deed was done.

Another place that I knew about sent all their oldies off to market, some were bought by seemingly nice people, others went to the meatman, and others to less than desirable types. Of course they were all cheap which made it harder to sell to the 'right' people.

I know which scenario I prefered for them.

In an ideal world we'd all be able to keep horses until the day they die naturally in their sleep, with every need met. Sadly real life is often different and we often have to step in and make very difficult decisions, although when the time is right I feel it is actually an 'easy' decision to make.
 
Yeah, I’d agree, if any of mine got older & were lame or anything else that couldn’t be treated easily with little stress to the horse then I would consider PTS but I still think it’s a shame older horses get put down just because they are old & can’t work anymore :(
But what about situations such as ex-racehorses who get put down because they weren’t good enough to race anymore etc, because that seems really ridiculous to me. If it’s young, healthy & workable then why put it down? I understand from a business point of view, if you breed an animal & it does not/ can not do what you bred it for then i understand, logically, it’s not best to keep it but I was a bit shocked to find out it was a common thing to do is to just put it down?!
 
I'm sorry, but giving to a rescue centre is not an option for me, I just do not feel it is morally right, they're for neglected horses that have no-one to take responsibility for them!

If the horse had something degenerative, but was still sound, I would keep or loan until the end, the timing of which would be my descision.

If the horse would be nothing more than a lawnmower, and I couldn't afford the treatment or to retire the horse, I would PTS.

If the horse was older than about 16 and would need retirement in the next couple of years, and I couldn't afford the retirement myself, I would loan them out and then PTS.

If the horse was quirky to the extent it was dangerous, and I didn't want to ride it myself, I would PTS. I sound like some sort of pony murderer but I hate it when people don't take responsibility for their animals :S I have a field so can afford to keep my three oldies, if I ever lost the land (which is my parents) and couldn't find/afford a place for them, there is no way I would let them out of my hands, it's not worth the risk, I owe them more than that!
 
Oh i totally agree, charities should be for genuine neglect cases, not for lazy owners! as i said, our way is keeping our horses till they need a decision made for them or till they naturally pass away.

And sorry to sound naive, but is it a common thing for people to pts their horses when they are getting to the stage of retirement and if keeping them isnt an option? Because I do find that really odd & maybe I'm just being soft but surely, the horse has given you it's best years and given you good memories and as soon as it is it's turn to be at leisure, we don't give them that option?

Ha don't worry, I understand all your reasoning You don't sound like a pony murderer at all! :)
 
I would only euthanise my horse when there was absolutley no way in hell of the horse making a recovery, of some sort, and when they have no quality of life at all.

I hate to say it but my gran has arthritis and shes in pain but she still loves life, and i wouldnt euthanise my gran....

So basically, when a horse is at the end, is miserable, has no QOL, i would consider pts.

I think it is an owners responsibility to have a horse through thick and thin. If you cant afford the vets fees, dont buy the bloody horse. I dont think that is an excuse for euthanasia. Especially when most people in this situation have another fully working horse that could be sold!!! My mare was turned away in a field for 12 months that cost me £50 a month. Surely anyone who owns a horse should be able to afford that? If thats doubtful, then loan. However, i am happy to admit that i love my horse and think of her as a member of my family, and thus treat her as such. Rather than as sports equipment. Each to their own but i know for damn sure that my girl will be living happily until the end of days, at whatever cost to myself.
 
Samantha008 said:
I would only euthanise my horse when there was absolutley no way in hell of the horse making a recovery, of some sort, and when they have no quality of life at all.

I hate to say it but my gran has arthritis and shes in pain but she still loves life, and i wouldnt euthanise my gran....

So basically, when a horse is at the end, is miserable, has no QOL, i would consider pts.

I think it is an owners responsibility to have a horse through thick and thin. If you cant afford the vets fees, dont buy the bloody horse. I dont think that is an excuse for euthanasia. Especially when most people in this situation have another fully working horse that could be sold!!! My mare was turned away in a field for 12 months that cost me £50 a month. Surely anyone who owns a horse should be able to afford that? If thats doubtful, then loan. However, i am happy to admit that i love my horse and think of her as a member of my family, and thus treat her as such. Rather than as sports equipment. Each to their own but i know for damn sure that my girl will be living happily until the end of days, at whatever cost to myself.
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that is exactly how i feel! obviously, each to their own and everyones situation is different but i think you can not just have a horse, work it until retirement then not let it live out its remaining years like a proper retirement should be! but as i said, each to their own!
 
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thats 15 and a half. shes the fittest shes ever been and i wont even think she will be old till 20. you cant put mandatory age limits

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its a hard life for these old vetrens
 
@madeleine1- she is lovely! and depends on the horse, agree age limits aren't the same for every horse, don't worry, don't think charliepony was saying pts at 16! :)
 
madeleine1 said:
DSC03398.jpg

thats 15 and a half. shes the fittest shes ever been and i wont even think she will be old till 20. you cant put mandatory age limits

DSC01167-1.jpg

its a hard life for these old vetrens
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Old at 20? Mine is 21! I think she will be old when she is 40 maybe (well that's what I'm hoping anyway...
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it depends on many things.

Leaving aside illness/lameness, then it is up to each individual person and the horse.

I had an old mare until earlier this year. She was phenomenal in her attitude towards other horses and was, even in her twenties, a passive alpha, foals would leave their dams to go with her and she would mother anything.

Last winter she did not seem herself. Nothing 'wrong' she looked well, was eating and drinking fine but just seemed depressed for want of another word to explain it. Then she poked a stick in her eye and lost the sight in it but adapted well to it.
Then one afternoon she went down with colic. I managed to get her in and called the local hunt and I had her put down.

I did this because in my gut I knew thee was more wrong than just belly ache and she had the look in her eye that she didn't want to fight. I had owned her for about 25 years.

At the hunt the next day I went to see what was wrong and she had a large tumour in her gut. Obviously it had been growing for some time.

I could have called the vet and we could have done things to try and 'save' her but experience and gut instinct told me to let her go.

Personally if I have a horse that is unsound for one reason or another with no hope of getting better then I will have the hunt come in and let it go. I had a hunter here that was unsound, he was getting on in years and on the hard ground crippled. His owner had died and the daughter wanted to keep him. Then she saw just how bad he was and agreed to let me send him on. Far better for the horse than to be in constant pain.

On top of all this there is always the financial issue. Keeping a horse as a pasture ornament is not cheap, rather than struggle to keep an animal that has retired for one reason or another I think it is better to have it euthanised.
 
If I were to die unexpectedly. ( touchwood ) then I want Star pts.
She is quirky and difficult to ride. She has a poor medical history of tendon problems and cancer. She has one eye. And I love her so much that I couldn't bear to think of her being mis-used!

But she is only 14. My OH is not remotely horsey, my daughter is at uni...... Believe me, I've thought this one through!
Unless anybody has other workable suggestions.
 
The trouble with the old 'if you can't afford to keep a horse forever don't buy one' argument is that, often through no fault of their own, peoples' financial circumstances can change. Marriages fall apart, job redundancies happen, bereavement, illness.

I think every situation is so different it is impossible to list occassions when PTS may or may not be appropriate.
 
aj18 said:
Oh i totally agree, charities should be for genuine neglect cases, not for lazy owners!
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you missed the point we are donating our horses ONLY if we unfortunately die not any other reason . if say you get killed like the teenager has recently in a horrific coach crash well she bequeathed her 8 yo anglo to HW if she died which she did and the anglo became theirs and now they are finding a new permanent home where he will be safe till end and never end up at a sale .

Her family were pleased she had done this as they didn't have the awful task of trying to find a new home where her pony could end up anywhere. One has to think of what we do with our possessions when we die in our will ,,horses have to be included in that will. She was helping another who wanted to help another horse by giving a home for life in The family new nothing about horses and everything was carried out as the daughter requested I don't see whats wrong with that?? the mare is healthy and will find a new home . The new home have to make a donation upon adoption so they get money to poor back into charities and also any monies the daughter left for the charity


no different than cats that go to charities when they are found in streets not looked after etc the charities take them in health check them etc then adopt them out the charity get a donation just as HW does when horse gets adopted out win win situation

girl gets her wishes in death

horse gets new home
new home get nice horse
charity get funds and are ready for the next and funds go to help the welfare cases

in The family new nothing about horses and everything was carried out as the daughter requested I don't see whats wrong with that?? the mare is healthy and will find a new home and new home have to make a donation upon adoption so they get money to poor back into charities and also any monies the daughter left for the charity

They also get all the rugs which the pony came with and tack some of the rugs go to keep the welfare horses warm as most gifted horses have good quality rugs fal rambo rugs the charity would not or could buy these in turn are used on neglected horses .

nearly all my rugs are Fal so if i die some lucky neglected horses will be very toasty in winter i have said they could take any they need .


Old at 20? Mine is 21! I think she will be old when she is 40 maybe (well that's what I'm hoping anyway..)
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diamonds 23 still doing 12 mile sponsored rides ridden at least 6 times a week and schooled i wont retire her until she tells me in appearance or how she feels one her is 29 still ridden schooled showed.
 
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LauraBR said:
The trouble with the old 'if you can't afford to keep a horse forever don't buy one' argument is that, often through no fault of their own, peoples' financial circumstances can change. Marriages fall apart, job redundancies happen, bereavement, illness.

I think every situation is so different it is impossible to list occassions when PTS may or may not be appropriate.
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This is the whole situation in a nut-shell.

:D

Excellent post.
 
The only reason I had my old lad PTS was because he was ill, and would never recover. He was in pain, and it was the only thing I could do for him. I would never have had him PTS because he was old. Up until then he had been well and lively and a joy to have around. In fact I hoped he would have reached 30, as we were planning a party for him! But it wasn't to be. My other horse is with me until he dies, God willing. I would never pass him on, or have him PTS just because of age, unless he was ill or miserable.
 
unbalanced said:
Old at 20? Mine is 21! I think she will be old when she is 40 maybe (well that's what I'm hoping anyway...
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thank u aj

and unbalanced i just ment that i wouldnt even start to think about the possiblity that she was old till 20. ill probably look at her and she will go nope not old yet mum and we will carry on. i just wanted to point out how surprised i was at the old at 16 comment.

back to the pts issue. i think there has been some very good points made. i would try and do anything reasonable and thats the point whats reasonable and not cruel. the one thing i would not do is sell her on to an uncertain future. i might loan or keep her as a lawnmower as long as she is happy but if she needs it ill put her to sleep
 
Charliepony said:
I'm sorry, but giving to a rescue centre is not an option for me, I just do not feel it is morally right, they're for neglected horses that have no-one to take responsibility for them!

If the horse had something degenerative, but was still sound, I would keep or loan until the end, the timing of which would be my descision.

If the horse would be nothing more than a lawnmower, and I couldn't afford the treatment or to retire the horse, I would PTS.

If the horse was older than about 16 and would need retirement in the next couple of years, and I couldn't afford the retirement myself, I would loan them out and then PTS.

If the horse was quirky to the extent it was dangerous, and I didn't want to ride it myself, I would PTS. I sound like some sort of pony murderer but I hate it when people don't take responsibility for their animals :S I have a field so can afford to keep my three oldies, if I ever lost the land (which is my parents) and couldn't find/afford a place for them, there is no way I would let them out of my hands, it's not worth the risk, I owe them more than that!
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^^ Ditto this
 
Most charities won't take horses from people who just don't want them anymore, I also know a very large horse charity who put a lot of horses to sleep as people are reluctant to loan horses with illnesses or injuries that require continuing veterinary care or remedial shoeing. So if a horse went to a charity they may get PTS anyway depending on the circumstances.
I agree with Madeleine1 I would not sell on horse on to an uncertain future. My OHs horse has just been diagnosed with DJD in coffin joints and pasterns, if she can no longer be ridden she will be retired and kept with us until she is no longer happy and comfortable. I think people who PTS should not be judged to be bad as it is better than passing the horse on to an uncertain future.
 
LauraBR- agreed, circumstances can change and I was only asking peoples opinions and can’t obviously list every situation in which it is or is not appropriate to PTS. So I know every situation is different, I was just asking as a general question, if anyone has plans for their horse when it gets older or if anyone has made any decisions in the past about whether or not to euthanize.

And diamond_light, excuse me, but I did not miss the point! Again, I cannot list every situation in which horses are given into the care of a charity. And AGAIN, people on this site jump to conclusions on peoples opinions. :rolleyes:
I never mentioned anything to do with horses given to charitys via peoples last wishes so i MUST think that people who do that are selfish. Please. If I ever died, touch wood, I would wish that my family take care of my horses. Failing that, I already have a rescue horse who would have to go back to the charity & I would wish my other horse would go with her, as well as a donation from my savings to help out with any bills. So please don’t jump to the conclusion that I would judge people who just lost their daughter by giving away her horse. I was only responding to another answer earlier on that mentioned they thought when horses get old, they shouldn’t get given to charity. So in response, I agreed and said charities should be for neglect cases, not lazy owners. Which must AGAIN mean, I think those poor parents are lazy. But in the majority of cases, charities are for neglect cases or abandoned animals. And the odd unfortunate situation when someone passes and wishes their animals to get given to a charity to find a nice, new loving home.

This was an honest question, as the policy in our family has always been; our animals are with us till they die. That is just the way we do things. And despite my feelings on it, I have no judgement on people who decide to PTS rather than sell on to someone they don’t know. Each to their own.
 
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