Conformation conundrums

[SatansLittleHelper]

Right, humour me...please..!!!!
I have a pretty good eye for a dog BUT I hadn't really realised that I was *ahem* "not quite as good" at horse puttogetherness 😂😂😂

So this thread is basically for those who might want to help me (and others) understand good conformation and the bad....pics and explanations would be gratefully received ❤❤❤

 

[FlyingCircus]

What I'd do in your position is learn about flaws that most commonly cause issues. As you're looking for a "happy hacker+" as it were, you don't need a horse with perfext conformation you just want to avoid the issues with high probability of issues e.g doesn't move straight, parrot mouth, etc

 

[SpringArising]

Good conformation is ideal but as I'm sure you already know it doesn't always equate to soundness or longevity.

There are so many variations that it would be impossible to list them all, but these are some of the ones I always look out for/avoid:

- Overly long, too upright, or dropped, weak pasterns (overly long cannons also slot into this). The horse in this photo is somewhat back at the knee which might be caused by his overly upright pasterns. These are an issue because they bear much more concussion than nicely angled ones. He is also slightly camped under behind, with a short neck and too thick through the throat.



- Back at the knee (photo) or over at the knee (longterm soft tissue/tendon issues). This horse is a perfect example. Also note the long, weak back.

http://www.writingofriding.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/conformation.jpg

- Excessively angled hind legs/sickle hocked as below (also in photo above). This horse also has an extremely weak looking hind end.



- Under-run heels
Pretty much what it sounds like, essentially meaning the horse has no heel support creating extra pressure on the leg tendons. Often possible to correct though time and a decent trimmer.



Then there are a few issues but not deal breakers: dishing, toed in or out (angle depending), thick through the throat-latch, upright shoulder etc.

 

[cobgoblin]

This is what I look for... But don't always get.

The horse should be able to stand fully square without feet or toes out of line.
The outline from chest back should form a square with hock to fetlock being a vertical line, hocks well set down with a good second thigh.
Sloping shoulder and pasterns that look right.
No extra muscle under neck or too thick through jowls.
Enough saddle bearing length and strong loins.
A good overstep at walk.
A kind eye.

 

[Goldenstar]

I look for a horse who is all of a piece I don’t anything jumping out at me .
I look for symmetry ( which is not strictly conformation ) any difference in the muscling side to side is a something that needs very carefully consideration.
I like horses who move straight and whose footfall is correct .
I don’t buy horses with weak back conformation I don’t mind a weak young horse whose back is a good shape but undeveloped but older horse with weak backs who have mileage on the clock don’t last in my experiance.
I only buy horses with a decent engine so a good hind end is important but I will accept less than perfect front ends .
It is of course easy to describe the perfect horse it’s finding one that’s the problem I don’t own any horses with perfect conformation .
I can’t get pictures to post from iPad or I would show some pictures of my less than perfect herd .

 

[shortstuff99]

I think the most important thing is for a horse to land straight, doesn't matter about wonky or straight looking legs. If the horse lands straight and even it will stay sound. I have a horse with pigeon toes and a dish you would think it was awful, but she lands completely straight so never has an issue!

 

[AdorableAlice]

The best and easiest way to judge conformation is either in flesh or with a good photograph. So many ads use jumping pictures, horses in a rug or lay down so you haven't got a chance of making an informed decision. You always need to ask the vendor for a proper photograph of both sides and front/back view.

Perhaps people will post photo's of horses stood up for you and then you can pick out the good and bad points depending on type/breed etc. Here is a 3 for you, very differing types and one is an old horse. Have a go, it is a good way to learn and no one will be offended, we all love to learn and can do so with helpful guidance.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I'm "just a happy hacker" and seem to have ended up with two horses who're both bum-high! Dunno how I did it! One is a youngster (my profile pic) - she's rising 6; the other is my 7yo mare. For knocking around just hacking TBH I'm not too fussed if they're a bit of a funny shape as long as the temperament is right.

Personally, if going to view, I always look at two things: firstly the eye of the horse - I look for a nice large liquid eye with not too much white in it and nicely set-in, and definitely not Piggy or with a lot of pink around. Secondly I look at the feet - I'm looking for nicely shaped and balanced feet - either shod or barefoot if that is what it is - that tell me that the farrier takes time and trouble with this horse (i.e. that its not an obvious rushed job where the farrier might well have had trouble with it).

I was offered a horse on loan a few years ago which had a very deformed croup; it was frankly awful - and wasn't something which could be sorted - tho' physio might have helped the horse to cope with it. I turned it down even though it was a "freebie".

 

[ester]

There's a couple of good facebook groups for learning, although they can get a bit QH heavy.

 

[Palindrome]

There is a book called "the horse conformation handbook" by Heather Smith Thomas which is about horse conformation particularly in relation to soundness and long term use of the horse. I haven't read everything yet but the bits I have read are clearly explained with lots of drawings to show what she is talking about. I would thoroughly recommend it.

 

[PapaverFollis]

The best and easiest way to judge conformation is either in flesh or with a good photograph. So many ads use jumping pictures, horses in a rug or lay down so you haven't got a chance of making an informed decision. You always need to ask the vendor for a proper photograph of both sides and front/back view.

Perhaps people will post photo's of horses stood up for you and then you can pick out the good and bad points depending on type/breed etc. Here is a 3 for you, very differing types and one is an old horse. Have a go, it is a good way to learn and no one will be offended, we all love to learn and can do so with helpful guidance.

Love, love, love the 3rd chap there! Not a great thread contribution from me! Lol. But had to say it...he's GORGEOUS.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Love, love, love the 3rd chap there! Not a great thread contribution from me! Lol. But had to say it...he's GORGEOUS.

That is Ted the Twit and a good example of how difficult trying to assess confo as a youngster can be. This is him at 11 months. I thought he was an ugly moose with no future, the lady who persuaded me to have him saw the mature horse.

 

[Berpisc]

That is Ted the Twit and a good example of how difficult trying to assess confo as a youngster can be. This is him at 11 months. I thought he was an ugly moose with no future, the lady who persuaded me to have him saw the mature horse.

You can see he has a good basic frame on this one.

 

[PapaverFollis]

That is Ted the Twit and a good example of how difficult trying to assess confo as a youngster can be. This is him at 11 months. I thought he was an ugly moose with no future, the lady who persuaded me to have him saw the mature horse.

Wow! That lady had a good eye! Bless him, he was an ugly moose. But soooo nice now.

ETA... you can see his angles are good, with the hindsight of looking at him now, but I'd have struggled to see it then. Interesting that his front pasterns look a little long to me in the baby picture but now he's grown into them... I think it's a matter of preference but I like the shorter less sloping pasterns, they just look stronger to me.

 

[Berpisc]

A couple of random photos for you to peruseeruse

 

[cobgoblin]

That is Ted the Twit and a good example of how difficult trying to assess confo as a youngster can be. This is him at 11 months. I thought he was an ugly moose with no future, the lady who persuaded me to have him saw the mature horse.

I don't think he was ugly at all!
Just a bit confused about having front legs maybe.

 

[ihatework]

The horse with perfect conformation is a rare beast (? Non existent), certainly I’ve never had one. Plus some faults are more acceptable for certain jobs.

I’m more than happy for my current ones to be dissected as I think it’s always a useful exercise. One is 7, one is 3.

As is getting them stood up properly which I’m particularly bad at.

 

[oldie48]

Really enjoying the pics but can someone post their thoughts on the confo. I'm not that knowledgeable so I'm afraid I look at the horse and if nothing jumps out at me and it moves nicely and there is evidence that it is suitable for the job AND it has a good temperament with nice manners, then I'm sold. I do vet though so I always ask the vet to point out any confo faults that might cause an issue. My old tb was slightly pigeon toed on the left, his neck was set on a bit low and he was possibly a bit over at the knee but he moved really nicely (quite flashy for a little horse) and he did everything I wanted. He also stayed sound with a little hock arthritis in his 20's and was pts with colic at 28. I think you do have to be a bit sensible with regard to confo unless you are looking for a top class show horse but it's nice to know what you are looking at so you can make an informed judgement.

 

[Palindrome]

Not an expert but those lines are the sort of things you would be looking at. Yellow lines are for the straigthness of the limbs and red lines are for angle of shoulder and forearm at the front and hindquarters at the back (that's the one I am less sure if the lines are in the correct place, the triangle can be equilateral or isocele, both are good). Ihatework's horses have top conformation for sport horses. The conformation needed will change depending on a horse's job, draft horses who need to pull heavy loads/plough for example will have very strong short and upright pasterns, cross country horses will have a low stifle so they can fold their hind legs well under to clear large obstacles and forearm to shoulder angle of 90 degrees so they can fold well under their front legs, etc....
Out of interest Ihatework, what breed are your horses and what do you do with them? hanoverian may be?

 

[Jayzee]

Thanks SLH for posting this! I was thinking earlier today how I would like to know more about conformation. Palindrome I'm off to look at that book now

 

[Palindrome]

The yellow line at the front goes through middle of shoulder, middle of the knee, middle of fetlock and then behind the hoof. The yellow line at the back goes through point of buttock, point of hock and along the back of the leg. All as it should for straight legs. Straightness also needs to be checked on front and rear views, as well as action (the horse moving straight).

 

[Summit]

Really enjoying the pics but can someone post their thoughts on the confo.

Me too

 

[ihatework]

Palindrome, the 3yo you have marked up is a mongrel! Balou du Rouet (old) out of a SF/TB/ID mare.

He has taken on much of his Dams confo, he has a very good hindquarter and hind limb. To highlight his (and the dams) weaker areas would be slightly short in the neck and just a little overtopped for his bone. What you also can’t see is a mild deviation in the forelimb which we have been monitoring since a foal, he lands flat but is still slightly toe out. He is aiming to event.

The big 7 yo is Welsh D x TB. He is very much naturally front wheel drive and would just be a fraction under behind and a little cow hocked. We are doing lots of work behind the scenes getting him to use & build his butt. He is more of a hunter type but is currently out Eventing at novice

 

[sky1000]

yes please I'd also like to see thoughts on conformation.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Me too

I will do my 3 for you.
The first one is too thick and coarse through the gullet and a touch long in the back, but it is a mare. Not seen on the photo is thickness under jaw. Also not seen in the photo is a slight club front foot.

The middle on is a near perfect as you will get, he is 26 years old in the picture and on the light side due to cushings and muscle wastage through the top line. Here he is in his prime as a show horse.

The cart horse, is short in the neck, thick through the gullet, common in the head and slightly cow hocked which can't be seen in the photo. But I love him regardless and he is slightly bonkers too.

 

[Micky]

I’m not very good at describing conformation but was told by an ex French 3 day eventer that the poll to the withes shod Ben the same length as withers to the end of the back...not looking,ike the neck has been plonked onto the shoulders, back not too long...😁

 

[Caol Ila]

This horse is still sound and in work at 26. She's led a life of leasure as a trail horse, dressage up to Medium-ish, and pissing about over fences up to 3' when I'm feeling brave.

 

[Goldenstar]

brave.

SLH although it is hard to see the limbs in this photo I would say this would be great horse for your job .

 

[Sussexbythesea]

No matter how much I’ve read on conformation and really try to assess it when trying horses out unless it’s really really obvious I get blinded by nice personalities and pretty faces 😭.

 

[oldie48]

No matter how much I’ve read on conformation and really try to assess it when trying horses out unless it’s really really obvious I get blinded by nice personalities and pretty faces 😭.

That's my point though, personality ie temperament and a pretty face (nice head and eye) are really important. It's obvious if the horse is cow or sickle hocked, or if the front feet are straight or not. You can also easily see if the horse is bum high or the neck is set on low and if the length of the front legs match the back legs. You might not notice if the shoulder is too upright but you can feel it if you trot. Poor farriery can also make a horse look a bit odd and will compromise soundness. Look at Rose's feet and the angle of the pasterns when I first bought her and with a couple of shoeings she is standing differently. However, despite the lack of muscle and poor shoeing, she looks "right" to me (not perfect by any means but right enough to do the job).