Confused after reading the grass thread re laminitic horses

[poiuytrewq]

What is the actual preferred turnout for a laminitic horse?
I have a field which is pretty lush and green looking- half has gone to seed. Its full of weedy stuff.
The other half I grazed until about 5 weeks ago so far shorter grass and we topped the weeds off. The grass in both halves is thick (which may be relevant and better if the article is to be believed)
Or I have very short thin grass, Its wirey compared to the above field. It has access to a yard and stable. (ideally this one needs resting as the yard/field/stable access is for winter really)

However the horse in question has had the start of laminitis twice. The first time he was away at another yard, the second he was in the second field above on next to no grass and soaked hay.

Or a field with the same grass wirey and thin as field 2 but longer, probably a bit seedy.

When i re-introduce turnout which field would you use?
Ideally he's supposed to live in the first one but its far away from home if there is a problem, However he's never even looked footy in it and has been in it on and off for years.

He's currently still in but this is to enable me to plan a little.

 

[chocolategirl]

I had to have the vet out last week to one of my little old (25) welshies as she was looking footy but on the back feet? Vet confirmed laminitis though a mild case thankfully. She has had it in the past, and tested positive for cushings and was put on half tablet of Prascend, daily. After 18 months I took her off it as she was off her food, very depressed looking and was going far too thin for my liking. I decided I’d take my chances as at her age, I’m neither willing to starve her to death, or confine her to barracks for long periods. Getting back to the present, she is now going to be tested this week to see if she is insulin resistant, if she is, there is a drug, metformin, she can have, if I choose to go down this route of course. While at the yard the vet agreed her paddock, which is completely bare, is perfect for her, and as she is in no way overweight, it’s clearly not an over feeding issue. I was also confused about which type of paddock is best for laminitics, and my vet confirmed that bare paddocks are indeed the safest option. I’ve heard advice to the contrary over the years, but having had it direct from my vet, I’m going to trust his advice. I think the mistake people make sometimes, is to think that just because it looks bare, it means that they’re not getting enough from it, but this is simply not true. We have a couple on our yard that are clinically obese but show no sign of laminitis therefore proving it isn’t just a feeding issue sadly ��

 

[Woah]

Eating a small amount of short, stressed and therefore high sugar grass can be just the same as eating a lot MORE long, shaded, non-stressed and therefore lower sugar grass.
It's so hard to tell. But you say your pony had an episode of laminitis when on a nearly bare lot eating soaked hay. This I imagine would be due to eating stressed (over grazed) grass and right down to the base where the fructans are building until under less stressful conditions the grass can resume growth. But it's more than just what the grass looks like so you need to also focus on other things to minimise her chances of getting lami again.
It is a good idea to put on next to nothing if she is overweight and needing to lose some and some ponies just won't graze too much on thread bare grass preferring to eat supplied hay. But some will of course! So think about turnout on a shadier bit if possible, and also about the time of day you graze her - overnight and early morning is the best. Turnout with another bossier one to keep her moving and try to keep her in fit ('ish) condition.I rather like the laminitis app too - just an extra tool to assist with such decisions! And just keep a daily check on her pulses so you are able to take swift action if need be.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I’d have said the grass he was on when the last bout started was dead!! Not just short but brown and shrivelled therefore I figured would be fine.
I’m considering putting a track round the second field above, it’s a bizarre shape but might be do-able

 

[pippixox]

There are many mixed messages now. If they are on very short grass it can be high sugar at the roots, but they eat less. Long grass still contains sugar: less in the stalky bits but they can eat more as less sparse.

Sugar content varies on time of day too: you are best to turn out at night and early morning. It is worse in the afternoon after a day of sun. Mine are not laminitic but one is a native on steroids so high risk and one does have fatty deposits due to being a good doer on no work, so I am cautious. They are on a track and I give them hay in the afternoon to encourage them off the grass when it is at its highest sugar content.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I have a little woodchip area he can have during the daytime maybe with hay

 

[Woah]

I’d have said the grass he was on when the last bout started was dead!! Not just short but brown and shrivelled therefore I figured would be fine.

this is the stress factor in play again - lack of rain over a sustained period will prevent the grass from growing. But sugars continue to be created each day anyway especially in the sunshine. So it may have been brown, but the lack of new leafy green growth demonstrates that it is unable to use up those sugars overnight (it normally uses them to help create new growth) because of lack of water. So sugars build up waiting for more favourable conditions to resume growth.
Stress could be drought conditions, but also overnight temp falling below 5 degrees Celsius , or poor grass from overgrazing.

 

[maya2008]

I have had most success with long and woody grass, grazing nuzzles and plenty of space in which to move - on pasture that hasn't been fertilised in forever and produces more weed than grass!

 

[HappyHollyDays]

If you have FB look at the ECIR group. Lots of sensible advice.

 

[DabDab]

It definitely is all quite confusing. When my grass was dry, dead, crisp-like, I was having to feed my big horse bucket loads of haylage as he was dropping weight. The native pony meanwhile was getting fat on the same grass...? And now it's watered and green the native has dropped the excess weight off again??!! Bizarre.

 

[TwyfordM]

Mines been out all summer overnight in a huge field which is split into lots of different areas but does a loop around so they keep moving and the water is a long walk down to the gate plus big group of horses so spend lots of time moving. It got fairly short but not bald or brown during the drought but has sprung up again now. They also have a round bale in the main part of the field and lots of different weeds/plants to forage around and its never fertilised. Works fantastic for her, she's not been footy or has pulses since going out there. Pop her in a small bald paddock and she's footy almost instantly. I think the movement combined with the fact that the grass isn't stressed is what's working for her

 

[Woah]

It definitely is all quite confusing. When my grass was dry, dead, crisp-like, I was having to feed my big horse bucket loads of haylage as he was dropping weight. The native pony meanwhile was getting fat on the same grass...? And now it's watered and green the native has dropped the excess weight off again??!! Bizarre.

I would guess your big horse wasn't keen on the grass when it was all dry and crispy and so wasn't consuming his typical daily amount so lost weight, whereas the native being a native was quite happy to go on munching away at it in this state. The grass at this time would be high in NSC's (sugars), therefore high in calories, so the native puts on weight.
When the rains returned and the grass was able to resume growth the NSC's reduce because they're now being used up in the growth process. Hence native now not getting so many calories from it and loses excess weight again.
I expect that's what happened.

 

[ponyparty]

When the grass was dry and dead, at the peak of the heat wave, my Laminitis app was on the highest reading for laminitis risk constantly. It's dropped down to the lowest risk since then (although does now fluctuate depending on what the weather has been doing). My boy could only have 1-2 hours in a grazing muzzle during that time period, I would say that was one of the most dangerous times for laminitis, sugars-wise. I think people thought the grass was dead (I certainly did, until I saw what my app was saying!) so there wouldn't be any sugars/laminitis risk; where the opposite was true. My vets have recorded the highest number of laminitis cases they've ever seen.

 

[pennyturner]

Mine (fat natives) are on 12 acres of water meadow; 'way too much' grass, but it's poor, weedy, and the herd are on the move all the time.

I've been convinced for years now that the constant movement, along with the unimproved, unfertilized nature of the land are the reason we've not had any issues.

 

[southerncomfort]

I've got a young cob that can't currently go out on any grass at all.

The slightest amount of grass (and I've tried both long and stalky and shorter, newer grass) and he instantly has heat in his feet and raised pulses. I'm really hoping that as he gets older and his workload increases that he'll be able to tolerate a bit more grass in his diet but it's a huge worry in such a young cob.