confusing lameness

Moon Dancer

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My horse was lame on his right hind at beginning of feb, had soreness in his back behind saddle and in front of sacroiliac. Tried treating this with physio which although improved it he was still lame. His back was injected with steroids and a muscle relaxant.
He came sound but still wasnt right, vet nerve blocked sacroiliac and then treated it with a muscle relaxant.
He was then sound, brought back into full work gradually, and stayed sound for about 10 weeks.
About two, three weeks ago he didn't look quite right, physio came as was due anyway and said he was lame on rh again. That was last weds, vet came last sat and said he wasnt right on his left hind, not lame just uncomfortable. Wasnt significant, sound in straight line and after flexion.
Vet came again yesterday and was lame on rh again. Vet now thinks he is bilaterally lame and one is showing more than the other at certain times. He is sound in a sttaight line and there is no short stride with the hinds in trot. Vet and physio are not sure what it is, vet has said its a mild lameness which is the hardest ones to figure out. He is not lame enough to block at the moment. He wants me to have him in full work this week and call him as soon as he is any worse and he will come and block the suspensories.
He is not as lame as he was back in feb when it all started. He was 2/10ths in feb.
anyone any experiences?
 

Sukistokes2

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Yes, not the same of course, but same area, my horse was lame on the near hind, with considerable pain and stiffness in the area behind the saddle. Lots of treatment, culminated in him having a crashing fall with me in the school, as he was unable to use the leg to stop himself slipping. Mine steamed from arthritis in the off fore and this caused him to compensate on the diagonal. He had treatment from Chiropractor vet and also acupuncture. Due to his age I opted not to investigate and when he did not come right and did not seem happy I retired him. He was feral in the field for four months( very happy about it too) when I decided to see if he would like a walk out bareback with a light rider, he hauled us up the drive and really enjoyed himself. I kept this up for a few months until one day I could not ride my other horse and the rider needed an escort so I rode him( I am bit heavier then my rider) my horse loved it. So I started taking him out for little walks until one day he said enough is enough and tanked off with me through a field. I got the vet out who past him fit and I have been carefully riding him since, no sign of the problems I had before.

I put our success down to turmeric along with conventional medication , getting a saddle that really does not interfere with his back, a Heather Moffatt treeless and his time spent healing untouched in a field with Dr Green.

This is about my horse not yours, I am just sharing what worked for me. :)
 

Pinkvboots

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It does sound like it could be suspensory ligament, in my experience if a horse keeps having back trouble it often indicates there is a problem in one or both back legs so nerve block is the way to go, my horse had a sore back some time ago and I noticed sometimes he would go disunited in canter got the physio out he felt much better but a few weeks later felt lame on near side hind turns out his got a quite a hole in his suspensory ligament, mine was not bilateral though so we think his done this to himself in the field, I hope you get to the bottom of the problem.
 

SadKen

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Are you absolutely sure that your saddle isn't too long OP? If he came sound then went lame again when being ridden it might be a possibility. My girl developed a significant twitch in her latissimus dorsi because my saddle was too long; it happened because she changed her way of going to avoid the pain in her back. I think pain isn't necessarily indicative of where the actual issue is. I'd get a really good fitter out to check, and measure the panel of the saddle rather than just to the cantle as you might normally. My saddle was checked by a fitter twice but there's no denying that it was far too long, as spotted immediately by my new fitter.
 

Dexydoodle

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My horse was lame on his right hind at beginning of feb, had soreness in his back behind saddle and in front of sacroiliac. Tried treating this with physio which although improved it he was still lame. His back was injected with steroids and a muscle relaxant.
He came sound but still wasnt right, vet nerve blocked sacroiliac and then treated it with a muscle relaxant.
He was then sound, brought back into full work gradually, and stayed sound for about 10 weeks.
About two, three weeks ago he didn't look quite right, physio came as was due anyway and said he was lame on rh again. That was last weds, vet came last sat and said he wasnt right on his left hind, not lame just uncomfortable. Wasnt significant, sound in straight line and after flexion.
Vet came again yesterday and was lame on rh again. Vet now thinks he is bilaterally lame and one is showing more than the other at certain times. He is sound in a sttaight line and there is no short stride with the hinds in trot. Vet and physio are not sure what it is, vet has said its a mild lameness which is the hardest ones to figure out. He is not lame enough to block at the moment. He wants me to have him in full work this week and call him as soon as he is any worse and he will come and block the suspensories.
He is not as lame as he was back in feb when it all started. He was 2/10ths in feb.
anyone any experiences?

My mare was ever so slightly lame, maybe 1/10th. At times slightly more and at times just slightly short. Never 'lame enough to block' (the vet did also say that to me!). she threw me off out hacking when I asked for canter (not like her at all!) and when I got her back I lunged her and she looked really odd when asked to canter and wasn't bringing her hind legs underneath her more using them to spring forward from. Got the vet back out, and despite her not being really lame enough to block, she went to horsepital for blocking. Turned out she was bilaterally lame, and when nerve blocked, fairly significantly so. As both legs were bad, neither showed 'that much' as she was sore on both. Didn't look too bad (before nerve blocks) in a straight line but definitely not quite right on a circle.

They did more blocks and diagnosed bilateral hind suspensory ligament damage. She had a bilateral neurectomy and came back into work.

I'd do (provided he's not too sore) what the vet is asking but I would be careful of the 'not lame enough to nerve block'. I know they have to be able to notice a difference, but if he's bilaterally lame then how can they tell how lame he 'really' is until they block one out. Has his ridden/ in hand behaviour changed? My mare became really slow walking down hills (as in, a noticeable difference) and the buck cemented in my mind that they needed to do something more. If he's exhibiting different behaviours, then maybe push the vet for a diagnosis.
 

Dexydoodle

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My mare was ever so slightly lame, maybe 1/10th. At times slightly more and at times just slightly short. Never 'lame enough to block' (the vet did also say that to me!). she threw me off out hacking when I asked for canter (not like her at all!) and when I got her back I lunged her and she looked really odd when asked to canter and wasn't bringing her hind legs underneath her more using them to spring forward from. Got the vet back out, and despite her not being really lame enough to block, she went to horsepital for blocking. Turned out she was bilaterally lame, and when nerve blocked, fairly significantly so. As both legs were bad, neither showed 'that much' as she was sore on both. Didn't look too bad (before nerve blocks) in a straight line but definitely not quite right on a circle.

They did more blocks and diagnosed bilateral hind suspensory ligament damage. She had a bilateral neurectomy and came back into work.

I'd do (provided he's not too sore) what the vet is asking but I would be careful of the 'not lame enough to nerve block'. I know they have to be able to notice a difference, but if he's bilaterally lame then how can they tell how lame he 'really' is until they block one out. Has his ridden/ in hand behaviour changed? My mare became really slow walking down hills (as in, a noticeable difference) and the buck cemented in my mind that they needed to do something more. If he's exhibiting different behaviours, then maybe push the vet for a diagnosis.

That shouldn't say diagnosis at the end - but to look at what else to do
 

shergar

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A sore back and right hind leg lameness are symptoms of ulcers ,Google equine ulcers.
There is a test you can do I think it is called Succeed some one will correct me if I am wrong ,it is not very expensive .
Worth a look if only to rule it out.
 

Moon Dancer

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Thanks for all the replies i will try and repsond to all the comments.
Pinkvboots, i am not saying its not his suspensories as i think it could very well be but the back pain hasnt returned since he had the injections into his back.
SadKen, my saddle has been checked last aug, sept, dec and again in march by a very reputable saddle fitter, my physio has also checked it and although not a saddle fitter would hope they or i would pick up its too long. I was going to get the saddle fitter out soon anyway to do a recheck but now going to wait and see what happens with this before i do.
Dexydoodle i do agree with you. The vet has looked at him in a straight line and said normally when they are bilaterally lame they are short from tracking up on both legs where as he isnt. I am going to stick with it this week but if he is the same at the weekend will push for nerve blocks. He did say he could block him as he is but would juat prefer him to be worse. Nothing in his behaviour has changed, he is exactly the same as he has always been.
Sherger he has also been lame on the left hind it switches which leg but if anyone knows where i can purchase a succeed test online i will do this as well
 

suzyjs85

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I had a similar problem with my mare, have they xrayed for kissing spine? This was my girls diagnosis in the end after extensive investigations into pretty much every cause they could think of for her lameness...
 

Moon Dancer

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He hasnt been but there is no pain inbetween the spinal processes and apart from a small part at the back of his back has not been any muscle pain either. But will talk to the vet about it if the nerve blocks dont show up anything.
 

Pinkvboots

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Thanks for all the replies i will try and repsond to all the comments.
Pinkvboots, i am not saying its not his suspensories as i think it could very well be but the back pain hasnt returned since he had the injections into his back.
SadKen, my saddle has been checked last aug, sept, dec and again in march by a very reputable saddle fitter, my physio has also checked it and although not a saddle fitter would hope they or i would pick up its too long. I was going to get the saddle fitter out soon anyway to do a recheck but now going to wait and see what happens with this before i do.
Dexydoodle i do agree with you. The vet has looked at him in a straight line and said normally when they are bilaterally lame they are short from tracking up on both legs where as he isnt. I am going to stick with it this week but if he is the same at the weekend will push for nerve blocks. He did say he could block him as he is but would juat prefer him to be worse. Nothing in his behaviour has changed, he is exactly the same as he has always been.
Sherger he has also been lame on the left hind it switches which leg but if anyone knows where i can purchase a succeed test online i will do this as well

I hope you get to the bottom of it, might be worth looking into ulcers it's a possibility I suppose, I think your right pushing to have the nerve blocks done even if the lameness is slight it's worth doing and it's the only way to pinpoint where the problem is.
 

Farma

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It does sound like it could be suspensory ligament, in my experience if a horse keeps having back trouble it often indicates there is a problem in one or both back legs so nerve block is the way to go, my horse had a sore back some time ago and I noticed sometimes he would go disunited in canter got the physio out he felt much better but a few weeks later felt lame on near side hind turns out his got a quite a hole in his suspensory ligament, mine was not bilateral though so we think his done this to himself in the field, I hope you get to the bottom of the problem.

I absolutely agree with this, having just spent 2 years with my horse showing the same symptoms as yours, my vet treated her back, then wanted to inject the s/I which I wasn't comfortable with, went for second opinion and the 2nd vet found suspensory damage in all 4 legs!
 

Pinkvboots

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I absolutely agree with this, having just spent 2 years with my horse showing the same symptoms as yours, my vet treated her back, then wanted to inject the s/I which I wasn't comfortable with, went for second opinion and the 2nd vet found suspensory damage in all 4 legs!

Farma I have never known a horse to have it in all 4 legs I bet your glad you decided on a second opinion, what was the extent of the damage and how is your horse now ? If you don't mind me asking they have told me that my horse has quite a hole and it's not a common injury, I am just hoping after his 3 months rest it has recovered or the only other option is surgery.
 

Farma

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Farma I have never known a horse to have it in all 4 legs I bet your glad you decided on a second opinion, what was the extent of the damage and how is your horse now ? If you don't mind me asking they have told me that my horse has quite a hole and it's not a common injury, I am just hoping after his 3 months rest it has recovered or the only other option is surgery.

Me neither! I have been competing this horse at bd and all sorts, the lameness has been so intermittent and never very pronounced so under vets advice carried on, had physio every 2 months, spent £800 injecting the back and nearly injected an s/I joint that was fine!
There are no holes or tears luckily so she is having shockwave therapy and will be on a rehab work programme but yet to see the outcome. There is scar tissue in the only leg that's always been sound aswell! If there had been a hole or tear then I would be in the same position as you considering surgery but not necessary for mine. I do feel however had this been found by the other vet when I first asked 2 years ago the prognosis may have been rather more positive :(
 

Moon Dancer

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Am sorry to hear about your horses. My horse came sound and has been sound since. Is in hard work again, having regular physio and everything is ok with him at the moment. Was possibly two unrelated incidents, buy guess i may never know. I am keeping an eye on his hinds to see that he stays sound but for now he is.
 

Pinkvboots

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Me neither! I have been competing this horse at bd and all sorts, the lameness has been so intermittent and never very pronounced so under vets advice carried on, had physio every 2 months, spent £800 injecting the back and nearly injected an s/I joint that was fine!
There are no holes or tears luckily so she is having shockwave therapy and will be on a rehab work programme but yet to see the outcome. There is scar tissue in the only leg that's always been sound aswell! If there had been a hole or tear then I would be in the same position as you considering surgery but not necessary for mine. I do feel however had this been found by the other vet when I first asked 2 years ago the prognosis may have been rather more positive :(

That is so lucky that the damage is minimal considering it started two years ago I know the scar tissue can cause problems in the future as my other horse had bad scar tissue on a tendon injury and it makes it harder to treat, I really hope your horse makes a full recovery.

My vet said shock wave would not do much at this stage as the tear is quite bad so we opted to have prp I just hope it works, really didn't want to have to consider surgery :(
 

Pinkvboots

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Am sorry to hear about your horses. My horse came sound and has been sound since. Is in hard work again, having regular physio and everything is ok with him at the moment. Was possibly two unrelated incidents, buy guess i may never know. I am keeping an eye on his hinds to see that he stays sound but for now he is.

I am glad to hear his back in work fingers crossed he stays sound :)
 
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