Considering Breaking Bitless

Tabula Rasa

Tabula Rasa

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Hello H&H folk!

I am the proud owner and of course mummy to a filly.

Belle (who's show name is Tabula Rasa - Latin for blank slate) is a rising 2 year old rescue filly.

She was very malnourished while in her mother and for the first year of her life. Because of this despite her sire being 15h and her dam 14h I believe she will only make about 13.2/3h.

So here's my enquiry. What do people think about breaking bitless?
Of course I won't be doing this for at least 18 months - 2 years from now. I just wanted to to know people's experience on breaking bitlesss & opinions.

She is incredibly responsive to voice commands. I simply click and she trots, I say 'keep up' if she starts to slow and she keeps going, 'waaaalking' to go back to walk. And so on you get the drift.
We are currently working on moving away from pressure which she is extremely good at picking up so far.

Anyhow I don't want to go to far into it all lol :)
Just wondered what people thought.

thanks! :D


Tabula Rasa x
 
I guess it depends what you want her to end up doing later in life. If she is only ever going to hack then bitless will be fine. If you're likely to want to school her, or do some dressage, you are much better to bit her at the start so you can give her a mouth. Then you could switch to bitless for hacking etc
 
What The Mule says. Remember something may change and she needs sold, then what? Most people do ride with bits. Always make sure any young horse, even a keeper, can play to the masses.

Besides a bit is only harmful if in the wrong hands. Nothing at all wrong with bitless. I can ride mine in a headcollar and rope just the same as a bridle. That's my bare back day! Yes, I get that's not real bitless.

Terri
 
TheMule said:
I guess it depends what you want her to end up doing later in life. If she is only ever going to hack then bitless will be fine. If you're likely to want to school her, or do some dressage, you are much better to bit her at the start so you can give her a mouth. Then you could switch to bitless for hacking etc
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Totally agree.

Go down the bitless route if you can be sure you can offer her a safe secure home for life. Otherwise you will be really restricting her future.
 
As a different perspective, western horses are often started in a side pull/bosal and then bitted later. Interestingly, my personal observation and experience is that, as a group, western horses have fewer 'mouth faults' than english horses, despite the fact that they also rarely use nosebands except for on speed horses.

Every horse should learn the basic aids from the bit, I think, for all the reasons mentioned above, bit aside from that, there is no practical reason you cannot start a horse in a simple, non leverage bitless bridle
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
What The Mule says. Remember something may change and she needs sold, then what? Most people do ride with bits. Always make sure any young horse, even a keeper, can play to the masses.

Besides a bit is only harmful if in the wrong hands. Nothing at all wrong with bitless. I can ride mine in a headcollar and rope just the same as a bridle. That's my bare back day! Yes, I get that's not real bitless.

Terri
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TheMule said:
I guess it depends what you want her to end up doing later in life. If she is only ever going to hack then bitless will be fine. If you're likely to want to school her, or do some dressage, you are much better to bit her at the start so you can give her a mouth. Then you could switch to bitless for hacking etc
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^^^ these

My neighbour has backed her youngster bitless. she has done a nice job as he is a sensible horse and will hack out and steer no problem. I know she only really wants to do endurance with him and wants bitless for that but she has really restricted herself imo. (She knows my opinion btw as I have mentioned it!)

When she is riding in the arena, I can see that he isn't in front of her leg, nor 'accepting' of the bridle as he carries his head too high and there is no real contact with the bitless reins. She has put a bit in his mouth a few times but has never ridden him off it, or long reined with it so he doesn't know what the bit is for.

I know she wants to keep him for life but as the others have said, if your personal circumstances change, someone else will have to start the bitting process and may not do it as nicely as you would like to - or be able to do it nicely as the horse may not accept it later.

as previously said, bitting is fine in the right hands.

and IMHO a horse for endurance should still be taught to school/leg aids etc surely schooling helps with suppleness and fitness as much as hacking on a road?
 
I can't see why it would be an issue, I would agree with Tarrsteps comments. There is no right or wrong way round of doing anything, by all means break her bitless, but at some point I would make sure you get round to mouthing her and get her used to wearing a bit, it could be that you show her in-hand bitted and ride her bitless. Just be aware that whatever you do needs to be done in a stress free and patient way. I ride one of my horses in a bitless bridle quite a lot, not for any reason other than he likes it and it makes for a relaxing hack. :)
 
I always thought should I ever be fortunate enough to have one from the start (I've been involved with starting horses under saddle and in harness quite a bit but never been the decision maker IYSWIM) I would like to try and do all the initial work bitless, maybe keep them that way for up to a year like they do western to keep their "mouth." They would would eventually be worked bitted for refinement and the selling aspect.
 
Sorry, AF, o don't see what being behind the leg or not accepting the hand has to do with the type of bridle??

Quite frankly, for someone who is less experienced, there are some real pluses to starting bitless. Mouths are precious and fragile. I'd rather someone erred on the side of caution, so long as they understood that for a full education they would have to add that skill thoughtfully later.

If every horse started in a bit automatically ended up with a good mouth we'd see a lot fewer problems down the line. . .
 
Agree wiht tarr steps about AF's comment - A horse can still work in an outline without having a bit! So you could still school and everything, it's not true that bitless is 'just for hacking' as people have said above. My older horse does shoulder in and all sorts just from a headcollar, and jumps wiht no bridle or headcollar or anything. In fact, if you train properly you can do flying changes and half passes and everything with no bridle at all! Might take a while though ;-)

however, I disagree with Tarrsteps that it's better to go bitless if you're inexperienced. Noses are sensitive too! One of my horses hates bitless but is fine in a bit. The other three horses I've trained in both haven't really cared one way or another.

It really just depends what you want to do and why. If you'd prefer to ride bitless, just do it. It doesn't really make much difference. Either can be used well or cruelly, either is just a matter of training really. why not teach both (not necesarily both at once though :-)!)??
 
Actually the first reply did mention dressage - I am not sure you can compete in dressage without a bit, probably not, and probably not showing either. But there's no reason you couldn't start bitless and then teach bit-wearing later if you so wanted.
 
You cannot compete in dressage (or the dressage phase of eventing) bitless.

I'll say, on my own program, I start most horses in a bit, mostly because they are either for sale or will quickly be returned to an owner. That said, even in a more commercial program, there is room for what most benefits the individual situation. I actually have one I'm starting bitless right now.

I have to say, on the back of my own experience, if I made a horse for myself now I would be very tempted to start bitless. I'm fact I periodically toy with designs similar to a bridle I used at one western place, that could be set up various ways and used to progress the horse from a side pull to a snaffle. It was a great piece of kit, custom made for the owners.
 
Maybe I should have worded it differently. Thats the problem with online forums isn't it!

What I was trying to say is that the horse hasn't be taught any aids at all, I did mention he carried his head too high, so is not in an outline and not being taught to be in an outline. In my experience of riding in a bitless is that you don't have the same feeling through your hands hence the comment about the bridle.
 
I agree with your very true assertion, M123, that tools are only as soft or hard as the hands that use them. Noses are sensitive, although I would argue not as sensitive as gums. ;)

I would NEVER advocate starting a horse in any kind of sharp/thin or leverage hackamore any more than I would suggest starting a horse in a pelham or a twisted snaffle!

My specific comment was to horses developing mouth faults. Almost all of them are extremely difficult to eradicate, if not impossible, and if they can be avoided, it's worth it! I see young horses develop them in the initial stages of training for a variety of reasons, many due to natural weakness and tension. If there is a way to get through these stages without the development of a pernicious habit, it's possibly worth considering. . .
 
I've taken racehorses while still on the track to ponying the races in the afternoon in a matter of 3 weeks. So quite adept at western to a degree. The bit with long shanks and a high port are what is worked up to. In the case of the "pony" horses it was a straight transition from snaffle to these. Neck reining was simple enough to pick up. My English horses can neck rein too. Lots of leg and seat doing the riding and a lot less worried about contact. That bit is there if needed and works on leverage principles. Bitless is a bit more of leverage than riding from the bit. English is more gathering into your hands while western is still very soft subtle cues that get the same tune without the always up in the bridle. I know I'm not making sense here. Light and easy with very little contact, light and easy with contact.

Put it this way, I was very surprised how light and balanced this racehorse became when we changed tack. My biggest issue with him was standing behind the gate after we got the racehorses there. Once the bell rang I had to hang on for dear life as he used to put in a couple of massive bucks. Thank Dog for western saddles. And at the time I had a cast on my left wrist as it was broke. So I could control my horse quite easy on a loose contact while using the right hand to deal with the less controllable racehorse with a jockey on board!

Terri
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
I've taken racehorses while still on the track to ponying the races in the afternoon in a matter of 3 weeks. So quite adept at western to a degree. The bit with long shanks and a high port are what is worked up to. In the case of the "pony" horses it was a straight transition from snaffle to these. Neck reining was simple enough to pick up. My English horses can neck rein too. Lots of leg and seat doing the riding and a lot less worried about contact. That bit is there if needed and works on leverage principles. Bitless is a bit more of leverage than riding from the bit. English is more gathering into your hands while western is still very soft subtle cues that get the same tune without the always up in the bridle. I know I'm not making sense here. Light and easy with very little contact, light and easy with contact.
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If you're making western competition horses neck reining actually comes a fair way into the process - horses in the their first year of showing can even be shown "two handed", as they say. I'd say pony horses were more along the line of "speed event" horses - barrel racers, roping horses etc. and less like reiners or wp horses or even cow horses (which aren't particularly like each other)

Re an "outline" . . .western people are obsessed with this, even more so than english people. I would agree that they do not ride on a "dressage" contact but it's not true they just let horses stick their noses wherever. If anything, I'd say they are even more keen on riding in a "frame" from the get go. If you think "dressage" people are inclined to use gadgets - side reins, longeing reins etc - they have nothing on "western" people!

I have found that endurance people are less inclined to concern themselves, partly because of the demands of the job, partly because of the sort of horses they favour. Good pros do school their horses and many are capable of doing other jobs well, but in a racing situation the horses are allowed to go the way they go for a reason, not because they are "badly" ridden. Jumpers don't jump GPs looking like dressage horses, either. ;)

Anyway, to the OP, if you get suitable tack (get some advice on how to fit it properly if you don't use bitless bridles regularly) there is no reason not to start a horse that way. Do the horse a favour and make sure it also works well in a simple snaffle, but if you've built her up properly in the bitless bridle that should not be a massive drama. My advice, when you want to make the change, is to start just "hanging" a headstall with snaffle along with your bitless, then move to reins on both, then move gradually into using the snaffle more. Once the horse understands, if it also goes well in a bitless, you should have no problem switching back and forth. Just make sure if you do want to compete in a discipline where a bit is necessary (which is most of them) you also school and take your appropriate lessons in it as well.
 
TarrSteps said:
Re an "outline" . . .western people are obsessed with this, even more so than english people. I would agree that they do not ride on a "dressage" contact but it's not true they just let horses stick their noses wherever. If anything, I'd say they are even more keen on riding in a "frame" from the get go. If you think "dressage" people are inclined to use gadgets - side reins, longeing reins etc - they have nothing on "western" people!

I have found that endurance people are less inclined to concern themselves, partly because of the demands of the job, partly because of the sort of horses they favour. Good pros do school their horses and many are capable of doing other jobs well, but in a racing situation the horses are allowed to go the way they go for a reason, not because they are "badly" ridden. Jumpers don't jump GPs looking like dressage horses, either. ;)
.
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Yes this is interesting isn't it, about Western riders and being in an outline - I guess it makes total sense, given the relative size of a quarter horse and the weight of male rider plus heavy saddle, that the horse works in as strong a way as possible. What I find interesting is the way that this is so different - here we really look for upwards movement and for the moment of suspension in paces, while they have much flatter sort of pace, to conserve energy I guess. And different again to comparing this to racehorses, who you often see cantering to the start line in a beautiful perfect balance with their hocks really under them and thier backs up. Amazing how many ways there are to skin a cat really!

I do endurance and I do worry about my horse's way of going (he is a welsh cob and has nice natural paces and does naturally work pretty round) - I don't have him in a contact all the time of course but I try and make sure he is pushing through from behind properly, but I often think about this as many arabs just go around in thier own balance and do hundred mile rides year after year and are fine. Interesting really. I guess all horses are different!

Sorry we digress ;-)

I guess the bit/bitless thing doesn't really matter as long as the horse is working in a manner suitable for its intended job!
 
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