Consistent outline probs.....

[C&C]

I have an ex racer who has been out of racing for 2 years now, his previous owner did alot of flatowrk in the first year of having him, the 2nd year he did not do very much work as she did not have the time (hence me having him)...now he is with me he is ridden atleast 3-4 times a week. I have been lunging with a harbridge (this is what previous owner used) and he excepts it in walk, as soon as i ask for trot he fights it. He has a pretty good topline and good shape but a friend suggested he may be a bit stiff through the back. I have problems keeping him in an outline when riding him as well, he takes a LONG time to settle anyway and when he does come 'on the bit' he feels lovely but he wont stay there

Most of the time he goes around like a giraffe!! lol. I am riding him forwards but he is sharp so he doesnt need much leg, i also ride with a slightly longer rein, if i pick up too tight a contact he just gets worse. Is there anything i am doing wrong or can i try some different things.....

He is ridden in a flash and a hanging cheek french link presently.

 

[be positive]

Has he had his back checked if it looks stiff he probably needs some physio to help loosen him up, also get the saddle checked and teeth may need doing.

 

[C&C]

Hi. Back was done just before he came to me in Oct, saddle was fitted and is fine and his teeth were done in Nov.

 

[Tinsel Trouble]

One of my horses has a tendency to go llama and I ride him in a John Whittaker Bungee. It is a stretchy rope that goes over the head, through the bit rings, between the front legs and clips onto the girth.

When the head is in the air the bungee provides pressure, when he is working long and low it hangs loose. It produced the most amazing results in just 6 weeks!

 

[C&C]

One of my horses has a tendency to go llama and I ride him in a John Whittaker Bungee. It is a stretchy rope that goes over the head, through the bit rings, between the front legs and clips onto the girth.

When the head is in the air the bungee provides pressure, when he is working long and low it hangs loose. It produced the most amazing results in just 6 weeks!

I have tried a bungee, it didnt help at all, he just pulled against it continuosly so i gave up as i didnt want to injure his mouth

 

[YasandCrystal]

I was going to suggest the bungee or a pessoa (to get him really going correctly from behind) or a de gogue.

Is you horse better with a bungee on the lunge than ridden? Have you given the horse plenty of time to get used to the device? I am not fond of the harbridge - to me it just pulls the head down in an unforgiving manner, whereas both the de gogue, the pessoa and the bungee give and take.

Personally I would experiment with a pessoa or a pessoa copy - you can adjust these quite a lot and change the severity - start of loose and slowly tighten it. You should always start off and end without any device also. The pessoa really asks the horse to work from behind. Sessions need to be varied and short though as your horse will find it hard to start with.

How about long reining? There is a great art to that and without the rider weight a lot can be achieved too. Hope this helps

Also a word of warning - my mare went like a giraffe and dentist had seen her and done teeth twice in 11 months. I got another dentist on insistence of an ET therapist and bingo she had a 2mm razor sharp hook on back lower molar which cut into her gum and first dentist missed.....then she had all the remembered pain.

 

[vicky_sut]

Do you have lessons with anyone?
I would try a loose ring bit, my exracer preferred the movement of a loose ring. Each horse is different it could be a large number of things. I know you said he is sharp but I would be trying to use plenty of leg via leg yielding and other exercises like that.

 

[dizzyone]

Lunging in the pessoa really works, need to make sure your horse is working consistently before moving the pessoa up a level. I still use it twice a week mimimum although only for 20mins at a time, best way i have found without riding to teach a horse to carry itself. Hope you find a soloution

 

[MCTM]

I had problems lunging my ex-racer when I first had her. She's got a very soft mouth and didn't like taking a contact - she hated the pessoa, wasn't keen on the bungee or de gogue either. In the end I found she's best in straightforward side-reins, set quite low on the girth (NOT between the front legs) and fairly long to begin with. It took a few sessions but she's working really long and low now and seeking the contact. I tried the "Laura Bechtolsheimer" method too and that did work fairly well.

Because she didn't like taking a contact, and because she tended to escape through the shoulder, I use a full cheek snaffle so I have better directional control (not loose ring).

Her head carriage is much better now when ridden and we have fewer and fewer giraffe moments. Got our first rosette at Novice level yesterday!

At the end of the day it's probably trial and error to find what suits. I guess it took me about 2 months before I worked out was was the best solution on the lunge. She has regular physio checks (saddle & teeth too) and also massages in between as she does get tight through the back and withers (lucky horse, more than I get!).

 

[YasandCrystal]

It's odd that I also have a friend who has a TB who hates a contact - she is still trialling different bits several years on and this TB has never raced. Infact I understand she got him unbroken, so I wonder if this is just a TB sensitivity thing?

Our ex racer was a giraffe and my daughter hacked him in a market harborough, but he was 16.3hh and she was only 12 at the time, so she needed to have control.

 

[Tinsel Trouble]

I have tried a bungee, it didnt help at all, he just pulled against it continuosly so i gave up as i didnt want to injure his mouth

It shouldn't be attached to his mouth at any time. It should go over the head, drop through the bit rings and attach to the girth. If it is fitted correctly the pressure should be applied to the poll.

How about transitions. Bottom under head up- stomache muscles engaged- hands low (as low and as wide as side reins), keep his head low in walk- ask for trot (more like a jog) for 3 strides, back to walk by squeezing the inner thigh- keep this going until his head stays down for the transitions- he must be engaged- but in a little trot.

 

[C&C]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I had the bungee on correctly but where he was fighting it it was pulling the bit into the corners of his mouth.

I have a full cheek bit in the post which i bought from a friend, she said it worked well with her TB.

A few peeps have suggested the Pessoa for lunging now so i think i will try borrowing one for the time being, if he goes well i'l buy one

I have schooled him this evening and found he started to ge really well and work long and low as soon as i had reins like washing lines!! Dont get me wrong i did have some contact but very little, i am sure any dressage judge or instructor would have something to say but if this is how he likes to work then so be it I also took off the flash strap on the noseband and it seemed to make a difference, however he got very strong in canter. His canter is AWFUL at the mo and we are working on it bit by bit with lots of transitions. He is improving a little bit each time

My dentist is a very reputable one and works closely with my vet so i have every faith in him He did say he had very sharp teeth in Nov and would have to be done every 6 months. I felt in his mouth myself before and after the job was done and could clearly feel the difference myself.

I'l keep you all posted and let you know what works with him. As soon as the full cheek comes through i will give it a go and see what he makes of it