Constant Abuse of Horses in Disciplins - What is the worst?

Gingerwitch

Gingerwitch

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I cant quite make my mind up if i have more welfare concerns about:-

a) the aintree meeting which includes the Grand National
b) the dressage and the Rolluker debate
c) the arab showing world
d) horse racing in general
e) low level competitions i.e your local show

abroad i really hate the tennasse walking horses and the rodeo but most of all i hate the piccalo horses (bullfighing).
 
Racehorses are given the highest level of care though.. I dare say the ones on our yard live in higher luxury than any of us! And for a horse to run races at that level, they HAVE to be looked after and happy.
 
I have never really thought about the Natural horsemanship - i did see one chap prior to his "display" work the horse for about 4 hours previously (horse was being an absolute sod and he wasnt very natural when he was giving it a good yank in the mouth and boot) - then he put it on the trailer and drove it round to the "display arena" and jumped on with its rope round its neck saying sorry he was late he had been stuck on the A1M (ha ha ha)
 
you can't say one discipline is harder on horses than another - it is individuals and how they treat their horses that makes the difference.
 
Luci07 - accept your point in someways however if you see the footage of a tenaassee walking horse or a horse be gored by a bull it is the actual discipline that is causing the issue. I think most of us have seen blue tongue and worried eyes, and yes not all riders do this.

At aintree they have lost upto 6 horses in the Friday prior to the National being run (i know i was at the Liverpool Vet Hospital that day and saw it and heard if 1st hand). I have never been to an Arab showing comp - but have heard of several people use the whip method for the "wild look". Rodeo - have heard two aspects on this a) the horse is "bred" for it b) they really are riding a horse that has never been backed like this.

So i suppose i am interested in what discipline people percive to have the most routine animal abuse (horse and legal)
 
I'm a bit curious how one would justify natural horsemanship as being the most abusive equine activity. Some people might find it pointless and annoying but relative to things that cause horses extreme physical pain and mental stress I fail to see the reasoning. Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make it cruel, or even wrong.

On the subject of bucking broncs, at least at the Professional level they are indeed bred for the job. Horses from good bucking stock are sold like sport horses and bring surprising money. You may not agree on how they are managed but don't kid yourself it wasn't for the nasty cowboys they'd be lovely, sweet little riding horses.
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They work about 8 seconds (less if they're good
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) maybe once a week and have a pretty nice life in between.

Good racing horses are also well looked after. However I have also seen some very unpleasant things in racing.

Gaited horses move they way they do naturally. But there are people who do despicable things to them in the name of extreme competition.

See where I'm going with this . . ?
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It's not disciplines that hurt horses, it's people that hurt horses. Technically anyone who sits on a horse is doing it damage. Yes, really. They are built to be suspension bridges, with their weight hanging from the spine, not load bearing mechanisms. It's only their bad luck they come with a place to put a saddle.

What about horses not receiving proper care because their owners can't afford to do so? One could argue that any horse competing is likely receiving better care than a lot of horses in the world.
 
TarrSteps - thanks for the input - it is always difficult to comment on things like rodeo and the gaited horses as we dont have them (well in a big way) in the UK and i must admit i wonder if we would be allowed rodeo over here.

I suppose the horse wordk is just like that of the ballet - most people love the grace and power but the pain and disfigeration of the limbs especially of the feet is pretty horific - but at leas a ballarena has a choice and a voice.
 
I think competition horses get a raw deal.
Yes, they are kept in luxury you say... Luxury in terms of fancy stables, the best hard feed, expensive equipment etc but most of the time (and there are good guy's out there) the horses live pretty un-natural lifestyles. Spend alot of time moving around competing, no turnout, always stabled, lots of feed little roughage, booted and suited with little time to really relax in the field with others munching on grass, which is really all the horse want! lol
 
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Racehorses are given the highest level of care though.. I dare say the ones on our yard live in higher luxury than any of us! And for a horse to run races at that level, they HAVE to be looked after and happy.

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I doubt very much if the horses would agree with you if they could talk. "Highest level of care" from a horse's point of view includes being allowed a run around with his friends; being allowed to roll in mud and get dirty; not being shod and broken at 18 months if they are flat racers; being fed a diet which is not a completely unnatural balance of low fibre and high concentrates.

"Luxury" to a horse is patch of wet mud to scrub itself in, not the most expensive and clean white woodflake bed and a £200 rug on its back. The nine or so horses that I have bought straight out of training have been mentally "shut down" and took four to six months to begin to behave like real horses.

Any horse which is caged every day all day and only allowed out into a horse walker or on a training run will run like the devil when it is allowed to, that's their instinct. I'm afraid that I don't think being "happy" comes into it at all, in fact sheer bad temper might make them even more competitive.


Please forgive me if your horses are not treated as I have described, but I believe most decently talented racehorses are.


I'm not touchy feely tree-hugger, by the way. I believe that horses should work til they sweat and be hit on occasion. I just know that I wouldn't define any one of the cossetted and shiny racers I have retrained as "happy" when it arrived here.

The most abused horses? That's a tough one! I hate Tennessee walking horses too. Bucking broncos, though, live a decent enough life with ten seconds of some daft bloke on his back trying to break his neck every now and then. (OK the bucking cinch makes my eyes water, never mind the horse's!). But my award goes to top class warmblood studs, where the offspring are worth so much money that they are stable reared from birth and never allowed out to play to grow strong and healthy. What kind of a way to rear a foal/yearling/two year old/three year old is that?
 
I would rather be a racehorse than a riding school horse going round in mindless circles or being ridden by someone who can't keep their balance except on the reins. Racehorses do what they are bred for. It is natural for horses to run. Many horses that fall in races jump round with the others. It is aweful when horses get hurt or killed, but they die in fields, on the roads, out hacking or in stables (barn fire in US - 43 dead). Those connected get very upset when it happens. The percentage of badly treated racehorses is no more than any other type of badly treated horse. Many get turned out, they are kept warm and well fed so it is not a bad life.
 
Horses, like any other animal, can be abused in any context. Surely one of the worst kind of abuses are extreme welfare cases where horses are kept starved, de-hydrated and knee-deep in their own excrement and the dead bodies of other animals.

BTW there is nothing wrong with the Tennessee walking horse in principle. In fact the running walk characteristic of the Tennessees, Icelandic ponies and paso finos is one of the oldest (in evolutionary terms) characteristics of the horse. Fossil footprints of the Hipparion horses from the middle Pliocene (3.5 million years ago) show the horse's ancestor moving with the running walk. It allowed that early horse to travel at an estimated 15 miles per hour and keep this up for hours at a time.

Just because something looks artificial, man-made and painful, it does not mean that it is!!!!

Edited for typos! Sorry!
 
i think most people know that the TWH has a natural running walk- it's the use of blocks on the shoes, chemicals on the legs etc to enhance this feature to ridiculous levels that people do not like. Poor horses, must be so uncomfortable all of their lives.

I don't think i could pick one area, cruelty is apparent in most.

In terms of horses with broken legs running around with the others etc in racing- they are a herd, running VERY fast- how likely is a single horse to want to be left alone to be eaten by a predator, of course they are going to try to follow! Also the adrenaline is going- that doesn't mean that the horse is not extremely distressed, of course it is if it's leg is half hanging off and it is being left on its own in a position of great vulnerability.

After further research prompted by last nights posts i have also heard of many other tactics used in arab showing which are horrific.

There are a lot of heartless people in the world unfortunately
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Hey,

From my point of view, it has to be the racing industry in general. For every 'Sea the Stars' there are thousands of failed racers. That's why about (this is an industry estimate here) 8000 TB's originally destined for the race track end up in one of britains two equine abattoirs each year. At the age of two or three, I think it is a very dark side to the glitzy industry.
 
Yep, defo agree about the racehorses... I think they suffer greatly and it's the sheer waste of these lovely tb's which is upsetting, it's almost like a lottery when they are born, if it's no good try and try again with the waste just being sent off as if it doesn't matter.

Sorry state of affairs when we treat life like that.
 
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i think most people know that the TWH has a natural running walk- it's the use of blocks on the shoes, chemicals on the legs etc to enhance this feature to ridiculous levels that people do not like. Poor horses, must be so uncomfortable all of their lives.

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Yes, that was my point! Sorry, I didn't make myself clear!

Anyone can use blocks on shoes, heavy boots, rapping, etc. and I've certainly heard of show jumpers and showing people who have resorted to these methods. But it's not the breeding, keeping or competing of Tennessee walking horses, show jumpers or showing horses that is the problem in principle, rather some of the methods that some people use.

This is why I don't think its a 'discipline' problem, it's an attitude problem, you can have the wrong attitude towards horses in any discipline.
 
I have read all and agree with you the most here, Its people who hurt the horses not the discipline.

Sadly its not something that can be fixed either as for every one loving knowledgeable owner there will be five know it alls (who know nothing) damaging the animals in their care
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BTW there is nothing wrong with the Tennessee walking horse in principle.
Just because something looks artificial, man-made and painful, it does not mean that it is!!!!

Edited for typos! Sorry!

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I can see from your later post that you have you seen the disgusting way they shoe them to get them to move like that. It is utterly foul. I can't understand why it's not illegal really.

I do pity riding school horses too, but at least there is some justification for the way that they live. We all have to start learning somewhere. (I don't count bad riding schools in that, they should be closed). I see far less justification for riding an 18 month old thoroughbred or keeping a £50,000 warmblood foal in a stable so it can't reduce its value by hurting itself.
 
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BTW there is nothing wrong with the Tennessee walking horse in principle.
Just because something looks artificial, man-made and painful, it does not mean that it is!!!!

Edited for typos! Sorry!

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I can see from your later post that you have you seen the disgusting way they shoe them to get them to move like that. It is utterly foul. I can't understand why it's not illegal really.

I do pity riding school horses too, but at least there is some justification for the way that they live. We all have to start learning somewhere. (I don't count bad riding schools in that, they should be closed). I see far less justification for riding an 18 month old thoroughbred or keeping a £50,000 warmblood foal in a stable so it can't reduce its value by hurting itself.

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I think there is a bit of misunderstanding here.

As far as I understand it the Tennessee Walking horse is a breed of horse, just like any other. So saying the abuse is the breed is odd, because it's not the breed characteristics that are a problem. Granted some people can breed animals with defects, but the natural movement of this breed of horse is perfetly harmless to it. So there is nothing abusive about the breed as such (one of the breed associations shows them hacking, doing Parelli and doing dressage, so just like any breed they can do loads of things!).

If some people take these horses and abuse them for competitions, shows, or in using them for their own pleasure, that is terrible, but I don't think the abuse is the same as the discipline. Presumably you can compete your horse in high walk competitions without abuse, just like you can teach a horse to do the Spanish walk without abuse.
 
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