Constantly putting weight on one side

[TPO]

Far from an expert but his stance looks odd given that the right hind in under him. Its not a good weight bearing position like that. There looks to be more weight down the left based on fetlock angles.

If that's his usual stance it's a point of interest that he always points his left front.

The left side is his wider base too.

Really odd that he won't lift right hind

If he's safe you can stand behind him at his tail and put each hand to the point of hind and feel if there is a difference in height. Then run hands down from SI down to point of hip and see if it's equal distance. Then point of hip back tonseat bones. Then seat bones down thr hamstrings and feel for difference of muscle tone and if anything is hot or cold.

That might give you a heads up to an alignment issue but really the plethora that have already seen him around have picked all that up.

Has it worsened recently? Assuming he's been fine to pick up hoof and shoe before.

Can you lift the hind forward under his belly direction, is it flexing yhe fetlock or hock that's the issue for him rather than putting weight weight left side?

Clutching at straws. In your shoes I'd have a Frank.discussion with my vet and look at some form.of work up but possibly targeted because no one has a bottomless pay of money (unless you're the tinder Swinder guy!)

 

[TPO]

South Wales.

Geography NOT my strong point but I was trained in ebw by this woman. It was way back in 2009 but I was seriously impressed wit her depth of knowledge and skills.

So yeah, it's Wales but no idea if it's South!

http://www.uskosteopathy.co.uk/equine_qualification.php

 

[Goldenstar]

Is it easy to get him to stand square ?

 

[Annagain]

Geography NOT my strong point but I was trained in ebw by this woman. It was way back in 2009 but I was seriously impressed wit her depth of knowledge and skills.

So yeah, it's Wales but no idea if it's South!

http://www.uskosteopathy.co.uk/equine_qualification.php

It is - about 50 miles from me, I'm about as far south as you can get and this is up closer on the English border towards the midlands.

He doesn't always stand like that, I deliberately got photos of him standing the same way for the annual comparison but it's not massively unusual. Even when standing like this he'll load the right and as you say, it's weird that he does it even when it looks horribly uncomfortable for him.

It's got worse recently. We got 6 or 7 sets of shoes on him but he's not shod behind at the moment because he won't hold it up for the farrier. Farrier is the only time he gets quite ansgty and kicky (I posted about this the first time it happened so will see if I can find it for the date). We can just about manage to tidy up round the edges on it and he seems fine unshod in terms of coping with the level of work. Farrier is keeping a close eye and if it needs more than that, we'll sedate. I just don't want to sedate to mask an issue. I could pick it out until about Christmas, now he just ignores me completely. If I try to catch it mid-step, he slams it down. He won't lift it full stop in any direction although the osteo last week did manage to lift it enough to do what he wanted to do. He started off really resistant but then seemed to accept it was helping and played ball to a certain extent.

ETA - just looked back and it was almost exactly a year ago I posted about him being angsty for the farrier. It improved the couple of times after that but has got steadily worse since the summer.

 

[Annagain]

Is it easy to get him to stand square ?

Fairly, but he'll still put all his weight on the right. Under saddle he halts square nearly every time without me really trying.

 

[ihatework]

I hate to say it but it sounds potentially expensive, with potentially no clear cut answer.

Id ship him to breadstone and get Oli to have a look, maybe Dickie too. But set yourself a spend limit.

 

[LEC]

I have just spent £3.5k on a horse with this exact issue. We couldn't get her shod and had been perfect up to that point.

Luckily I could pinpoint the exact day that everything had changed as she was being fittened for a 3 day and had done hillwork. Next day we had farrier and there was no way she was going to pick up her hind leg on right. Tried to kick us etc. Equine Bodyworker went over her and did not find anything as came same day as the farrier.
Called the vet as still could not get shoes on even two days later and could not even pick up hind leg and she had 2x2 bute in between to see if that helped. Vet took bloods to see if tied up - bloods clean.

Turned horse away for 2 months to see if it solved itself as I felt it was a pulled muscle up high. Bought horse back in and still tricky behind. Had world class physio out who was seriously concerned as back was so bad and sacroiliac area. Took to vets for lameness work up. Not lame and gait analysis was used to double check but clearly unhappy about having leg picked up.

Took her to vet clinic as vet was worried it was Sacroiliac so we had bone scan done. Came back clean. A minor hot spot on stifle but x rayed and scanned clean. More gait analysis - clear. Everything x rayed - clean. Everything scanned - clean. Fine to pick up hind feet under dope.

Came home and started her back in work. Was better about feet and used dope to shoe her. World class physio came out and said normal horse and no concerns.

It looks like she pulled a muscle up high while doing the hillwork as leg slipped behind. Unfortunately we had farrier at the worst time as it was really painful to have done and she has remembered this. Time off solved the pulled muscle but still sore from being incorrect which physio sorted but was highly concerned about. Came back from vets clinic and has been fine about hind feet and is back to normal and in normal work.

TBH I always spend the money on diagnostics. Its always been worth it. Mine is a seriously nice horse so no point guessing on this kind of stuff.

 

[TPO]

The more I've thought on this the more worrying I find it.

Firstly you need "access" to feet. Primary issue aside what if there's a stone or thrush or heaven forbid a puncture wound. You can't deal with any of that if the horse wont/can't lift lift foot.

Secondly a vet was out and was unable to perform flexions and has just left you hanging? Did they not have concerns and suggestions? Surely they haven't just dropped you to figure it out alone?

No idea about your part of the world but I'd value IHW's recommendations and book horse in with those vets.

A clear conversation to be had first that he isn't insured and its not a bottomless pit of money.

How long ago was the bute test and the vet visit?

I'd be pursuing IHW's suggestion immediately

 

[Annagain]

The more I've thought on this the more worrying I find it.

Firstly you need "access" to feet. Primary issue aside what if there's a stone or thrush or heaven forbid a puncture wound. You can't deal with any of that if the horse wont/can't lift lift foot.

Secondly a vet was out and was unable to perform flexions and has just left you hanging? Did they not have concerns and suggestions? Surely they haven't just dropped you to figure it out alone?

No idea about your part of the world but I'd value IHW's recommendations and book horse in with those vets.

A clear conversation to be had first that he isn't insured and its not a bottomless pit of money.

How long ago was the bute test and the vet visit?

I'd be pursuing IHW's suggestion immediately

Vet was before Christmas, his suggestion was bute trial before next shoeing which was week before last. I've used him 30+ years and trust him but he's also our neighbour yard wise and knows I've been struggling with my confidence as we've bumped into him once or twice out hacking. I think he might think I'm being a bit wet and looking for excuses so there might be some unconscious bias going on. We've only noticed the weight bearing thing this last two weeks when the ground work trainer came so I've not spoken to him about that yet.

I have domosedan for emergencies. He lifts them fine when doped (I gave them a good scrub the other day when dental vet was here to do teeth and he was away with the fairies) I obviously don't want to have to rely on domosedan every time though or have it mask an issue.

 

[TPO]

Vet was before Christmas, his suggestion was bute trial before next shoeing which was week before last. I've used him 30+ years and trust him but he's also our neighbour yard wise and knows I've been struggling with my confidence as we've bumped into him once or twice out hacking. I think he might think I'm being a bit wet and looking for excuses so there might be some unconscious bias going on.

I have domosedan for emergencies. He lifts them fine when doped (I gave them a good scrub the other day when dental vert was here to do teeth and he was away with the fairies)

Even so I'd be cracking on with a specialist/IHW recommendation.

Week before last was first week in Feb and if vet was before Christmas by my bad maths thats approx 9wks.

To me that's far too long to have left a horse with an issue like that. Before Xmas until farrier approx 6wks, he just left you for 6wks to keep on keeping on when it could, but hopefully not, be something quite serious?

How can he think it's an excuse when HE couldn't lift the foot? He should want to be investigating it further and should have done a bute trial immediately if that was to be his first course of action.

Quite angry on your behalf that you've been abandoned to deal with this.

So because I never tire of repeating myself I'd be contacting IHWs recommended vets.

3dited because my phone keeps replacing letters and duplicating words not to mention all the random full stops ??‍

 

[Annagain]

Thank you. It was just a couple of days before Christmas so about 7 weeks. Farrier was an issue so he wanted to sedate him next time and I said I'd rather investigate first so took him to the vet. At that time I could pick up foot long enough to pick out quickly (and showed vet this) but not any more. This was the first chance for the bute trial to fit in with shoeing - he's normally done every 6 weeks but it was delayed a week as I had to go away for work.

 

[Annagain]

Just realised I've forgotten one potentially important factor. He has an old scar on this leg, on the back of the pastern. We have no idea how he got it but it could be that it got fiddled with a lot and he just doesn't want it fiddled with now. That doesn't explain why he was fine for a year though if that's the case. Osteo thinks the scar tissue could be catching somewhere and causing an issue but I really don't buy that as you can fiddle with the scar for ages if the foot is on the ground and he doesn't flinch. It really doesn't seem to bother him one bit. I think if it was catching on something it would niggle at all times?

He's got me washing it with warm water and head and shoulders every night and massaging cetraben into it to try to soften the skin and have it all much more flexible. This isn't a problem for Charlie at all, he even seems to enjoy it.

 

[TotalMadgeness]

My first horse was reluctant to pick up his hind feet which got worse and worse over time. I was told by the seller I was just incompetent in lifting feet and I believed her! He was also prone to bucking at random in canter. Anyway. Turned out he had shivers... (edited to say he passed a 5 stage vetting)

 

[Birker2020]

(unless you're the tinder Swinder guy!)

Hope you get it sorted OP, do keep us updated.
TPO I've been told to watch this by someone at work. Looking forward to snuggling down in bed with a hot chocolate and the remote tonight.

 

[TPO]

Just realised I've forgotten one potentially important factor. He has an old scar on this leg, on the back of the pastern. We have no idea how he got it but it could be that it got fiddled with a lot and he just doesn't want it fiddled with now. That doesn't explain why he was fine for a year though if that's the case. Osteo thinks the scar tissue could be catching somewhere and causing an issue but I really don't buy that as you can fiddle with the scar for ages if the foot is on the ground and he doesn't flinch. It really doesn't seem to bother him one bit. I think if it was catching on something it would niggle at all times?

He's got me washing it with warm water and head and shoulders every night and massaging cetraben into it to try to soften the skin and have it all much more flexible. This isn't a problem for Charlie at all, he even seems to enjoy it.

You're right, doesn't explain why he was OK previously and has rapidly declined ina short period of time.

The vet waiting 7wks for the farrier to do the bute trial is despicable!! Firstly if he expected the bute to work to enable the farrier to lift the foot that's accepting that the horse is currently in pain. There was nothing to stop him doing a bute trial immediately.

The fact that it didn't work 7wks down the line and he's suggested nothing is awful. I don't expect any vet to care about my horse like I do buy I expect a bit of investment. I left a practice that gave me bute, said they were out of ideas and to call him with an update in a week or so as he'd "be interested to hear how it turns out". Switched to current practice and its night and day. My vet goes about and beyond with every random case I've thrown his way.

Also you had your vet out for a work up/lameness examine and he just walked away to leave you riding a lame horse. Regardless of if the horse appeared sound when moving a horse that cannot lift a leg is not a sound, fit and healthy horse.

And on another point no therapist should be working on a horse with an undiagnosed issue/lameness. It's a contradiction to their treatments. Assuming you haven't had them all out post christmas/vet visit. They should have been advising you to involve a good vet not massage old scar tissue or to do anything at all without a vets involvement.

Spitting feathers on your behalf!

Yes it could be something that's been suggested uptrendbut at this point even a basic examination hasn't been fully carried out and investigated.

I hope that by this point of the day you've already made contact with IHW vet recommendations and have managed to put something in place to get him seen.

 

[TPO]

Hope you get it sorted OP, do keep us updated.
TPO I've been told to watch this by someone at work. Looking forward to snuggling down in bed with a hot chocolate and the remote tonight.

It's rubbish and the "victims" are shameless money grabbers

 

[flying_high]

It's rubbish and the "victims" are shameless money grabbers

Surely they lost thousands?

 

[TPO]

Surely they lost thousands?

Probably not the right thread! But if they hadn't been blinded because they thought they were going to be living a billionaire lifestyle they wouldn't have gotten themselves into such a mess

A bloke messages me saying his enemies are after him and he needs me to take out loans to get him cash the reply would be "oh no thats awful. Good luck x" No danger ticking myself up in exchange for the private jet Instagram lifestyle!

 

[Annagain]

You're right, doesn't explain why he was OK previously and has rapidly declined ina short period of time.

The vet waiting 7wks for the farrier to do the bute trial is despicable!! Firstly if he expected the bute to work to enable the farrier to lift the foot that's accepting that the horse is currently in pain. There was nothing to stop him doing a bute trial immediately.

The fact that it didn't work 7wks down the line and he's suggested nothing is awful. I don't expect any vet to care about my horse like I do buy I expect a bit of investment. I left a practice that gave me bute, said they were out of ideas and to call him with an update in a week or so as he'd "be interested to hear how it turns out". Switched to current practice and its night and day. My vet goes about and beyond with every random case I've thrown his way.

Also you had your vet out for a work up/lameness examine and he just walked away to leave you riding a lame horse. Regardless of if the horse appeared sound when moving a horse that cannot lift a leg is not a sound, fit and healthy horse.

And on another point no therapist should be working on a horse with an undiagnosed issue/lameness. It's a contradiction to their treatments. Assuming you haven't had them all out post christmas/vet visit. They should have been advising you to involve a good vet not massage old scar tissue or to do anything at all without a vets involvement.

Spitting feathers on your behalf!

Yes it could be something that's been suggested uptrendbut at this point even a basic examination hasn't been fully carried out and investigated.

I hope that by this point of the day you've already made contact with IHW vet recommendations and have managed to put something in place to get him seen.

To be fair, the leg lifting for the farrier was the only issue when the vet saw him - I could still lift it myself then so I don't think the vet thought a bute trial for everyday activities would show anything, whereas doing it for the farrier's visit might. Like I said, I think he was, at the time, convinced it was a behaviour issue and I was over-reacting. I think he'd have a different view now. Vet has been on holiday for the last two weeks so I haven't had a chance to discuss the bute trial or the new developments with him yet.

I feel I need to discuss it with him first rather than go straight to Breadstone as he's been my vet for 30 years and is also my next door yard neighbour so I want to be courteous. If it was an emergency of course I would do it straight away but given that everything is so subtle at the moment, I don't think a few days is going to make a difference. He's back on Saturday so I'm going to speak to him on Monday. He's a one man band and while he has a well equipped surgery, he certainly doesn't have the facilities Breadstone would have so I'm going to use that to say I want him to go there. In the mean time, Charlie's having a break and is happy as larry in the field.

He's only seen one body worker since the vet - the osteo who thinks the lumbar tightness is an acute issue and the scar is playing a part but who has had a fuller / more recent picture than the vet. The more I think about it, the less impressed I am with him, despite him coming very highly recommended by the vet. He kind of zoomed in on the lumbar area and the scar and didn't really look anywhere else. I'm not saying he didn't have a lumbar issue, he was very obviously more comfortable after the treatment - although there are more treatments to come with that so it's not 'sorted' yet but I would have thought he'd have picked up on the loading the right issue when it was in fact the ground work trainer who was there the next day who spotted that. It's also just occurred to me he said he'd get permission from my vet (my vet didn't recommend him specifically for this issue but has said more generally in the past that he recommends this guy so I contacted him) to treat but I'm not sure he has as vet is on holiday. I know they speak a lot but I doubt they have in the last couple of weeks. With the others, I got permission from the vet and showed it to them. Stupidly, I didn't think to check, he said he'd do it and then texted me an appointment slot so I assumed he had.

I do really appreciate your advice TPO, and IHW's and I am taking it, I promise, I just feel I need to add this one step in first.