Convince me (or not) to buy a dressage saddle

[VictoriaSponge]

Big horse will be doing HOYS/RI hunter qualifiers next season, he turns 8 next year and we’ve taken things pretty slowly with him. We’ve also been out doing a fair amount of dressage, and I’m finding myself more inclined to go in this direction as on the whole I’m finding it a far less frustrating experience than my showing days.

He’s doing ok out at unaffiliated novice, I’d like to see him established at affiliated elementary by the end of next year, but really he was bought to show and will be my forever/last horse so I’m in absolutely no rush, especially with the dressage side of things.

Is it worth investing in a dressage saddle for him? I’ve competed up to medium in the far gone past but never owned one before; must have only ridden in one a few times and remember finding them quite restrictive. He was backed in a gp but since been using a Black Country show saddle which I’ve been happy with and will continue to use for showing. My thinking is that if I do pursue the dressage with him, sitting trot will soon be on the horizon and the extra support maybe beneficial, but they are something I have no experience with.

Any thoughts welcome!

 

[Fieldlife]

Yes if you can find a dressage saddle you really like, that supports you, feels right and doesnt restrict you, then absolutely. Assuming your horse likes it too.

But dont buy something with huge blocks, that holds you in an restricts you, and stops your ability to follow and move. Dont think that will improve your riding.

 

[Midlifecrisis]

I’m rubbish…I d buy a dressage saddle but there’s such an overwhelming choice available these days it’s where to start !

 

[94lunagem]

Go for it! I also did a lot of showing as a teenager and morphed more towards dressage in my twenties. Then stuck with that.

I only ever really rode in a dressage saddle, you may need to try a few to find one that suits you both. I suspect you've not had the right one before if you found it restrictive, perhaps you've ridden in one with big blocks. I loved mine (both sold years ago but I'm sure one was an Ideal and the other was bought second hand and I have no idea what it was) and my horses seemed to go well in them. But I also remember riding a friend's on one occasion in a dressage saddle with a flair system and I don't know if it was the saddle or the horse but never again!

I mainly did dressage but took both horses out on the occasional fun/sport endurance rides and was perfectly comfortable in a dressage saddle. And was also fine popping the occasional small fence (of the 2'6" variety!). So you can still dip into other non-dressage bits even if you do make the plunge.

 

[Fieldlife]

I'd had 4 dressage saddles for current horse, at various costs. To be fair first was inherited from my previous horse but was fitted to current horse. 4th saddle fingers crossed it right one. It was also by far the cheapest, but it has been a painful journey. Problems mainly saddles slipping off to the right (asymmetric shoulders), saddles dropping down in front when I rode for more than 5 minutes, and knee blocks being to restrictive for me.

 

[VictoriaSponge]

Yes if you can find a dressage saddle you really like, that supports you, feels right and doesnt restrict you, then absolutely. Assuming your horse likes it too.

But dont buy something with huge blocks, that holds you in an restricts you, and stops your ability to follow and move. Dont think that will improve your riding.

In my head a dressage saddle is exactly that, big blocks and no room for movement. Coming from the better part of 40 years riding in show saddles, it’s a bit of a shock!

Go for it! I also did a lot of showing as a teenager and morphed more towards dressage in my twenties. Then stuck with that.

I only ever really rode in a dressage saddle, you may need to try a few to find one that suits you both. I suspect you've not had the right one before if you found it restrictive, perhaps you've ridden in one with big blocks. I loved mine (both sold years ago but I'm sure one was an Ideal and the other was bought second hand and I have no idea what it was) and my horses seemed to go well in them. But I also remember riding a friend's on one occasion in a dressage saddle with a flair system and I don't know if it was the saddle or the horse but never again!

I mainly did dressage but took both horses out on the occasional fun/sport endurance rides and was perfectly comfortable in a dressage saddle. And was also fine popping the occasional small fence (of the 2'6" variety!). So you can still dip into other non-dressage bits even if you do make the plunge.

The ones I rode in before were likely ill fitted to me, as I know a lot do swear by them. I do like the idea of something a little more secure for hacking too.

 

[humblepie]

We mixed and matched dressage and showing. My plan was showing as never really competed dressage but he started doing rather well in his GP saddle so luckily found a nice second hand dressage saddle. Fairly small knee rolls and no other blocks. Bought him a Black Country showing saddle for his showing classes. I use the dressage saddle (it was my first dressage saddle after GP saddles, very slight dressage/WH saddle, showing saddles) as my main saddle and even use it in some ridden showing classes as it fits him well and isn't bulky at all. Just find one that is comfortable for you both, it doesn't have to have huge blocks.

 

[Baywonder]

My DH makes a lot of VSD saddles - they are straight enough cut to allow you to ride longer, but they also provide enough support without being restrictive.

I totally agree with you regarding dressage saddles! Most of them have seats as deep as a bucket, and knee blocks that are sprouting out like wings. Dreadful things.

 

[humblepie]

My DH makes a lot of VSD saddles - they are straight enough cut to allow you to ride longer, but they also provide enough support without being restrictive.

I totally agree with you regarding dressage saddles! Most of them have seats as deep as a bucket, and knee blocks that are sprouting out like wings. Dreadful things.

I loved my VSD saddle - it was stolen in a yard break in. I used it for quite high level showing and it had that bit extra support for hacking etc.

 

[little_critter]

Not all dressage saddles have big blocks, I have this one which has a knee pad rather than a block. The seat isn't excessively deep either

 

[Polos Mum]

My 8 y/o is going well at novice and I was given some money from my aged parents. I treated myself to a lovely new dressage saddle - the likes of I've never spent £££'s on before.

I lasted 6 weeks and hated every minute of it - he went well in it - which is why I persevered for so long.

It has knackered my back forcing my pelvis to tilt forward and me have a curve in my back when riding - this has knackered by pelvis too - my physio was shocked with the swelling / level of pain I was in.
It started off not hurting when riding - just a couple of hours later, that progressed to being in agony after anything more than 25 mins.

The saddler did choose this one as it was a 'starter' dressage saddle and not too restrictive - small blocks - I took these off after week 3 completely but it didn't make any difference. It was the v deep seat that was the problem with my pelvis angle.
Saddle had movable stirrup bars and that didn't help either.

My boy is native shaped and the saddler said there are a couple of much flatter seated styles of dressage saddle that my pelvis might cope with - but they don't make them on trees that would fit my horse

So have spent 4 figures I'm now back in straighter cut GP saddle - shame as he can and should go further but I'll not be trying a dressage saddle again.

OP - strongly recommend you try a few out before buying.

 

[asmp]

And buy second hand. There are SO many dressage saddles for sale. We are trying to find Wow general saddle flaps and all you see is dressage ones

 

[Fieldlife]

And buy second hand. There are SO many dressage saddles for sale. We are trying to find Wow general saddle flaps and all you see is dressage ones

Agree, I have a frank baines Pirouette, bought second hand for a fraction of the £3,100 new price. Spent same as purchase price getting tree narrowed, and saddle fully reflocked, and LOVE it. Has velcro space for totally adjustable knee blocks.

Pirouette Standard - Frank Baines Saddlery

The Pirouette Standard Dressage saddle has a wool-flocked mono flap, with a flat open seat. The tree used for this Dressage saddle is a good option for horses with a medium wither and a straight flatter back.

www.frankbaines.com

 

[Pinkvboots]

I love my dressage saddles they are all I use to ride my 2 now I used to do Arab showing with them they both have Lavinia Mitchell Dressage saddles now, they don't have huge blocks they are removable ones so I just put smaller ones on them and you don't feel restricted at all they are just really comfy.

I did do ridden showing with Arabi's one as I had it made to order so opted for short girth straps as he didn't get on with dressage girths anyway no one ever commented on it in the show ring.

 

[Equi]

Wrong place to ask. You’ll be buying a dressage saddle

 

[sbloom]

Dressage saddle schmessage saddle. Honestly.

I am a rider fit specialist saddle fitter. By convention, for ease of classification, we have grouped saddles according to activity. Before the 70s there weren't really very different types of saddle for hunting, jumping or dressage, they all looked a bit like a show saddle and had no or only a tiny knee block, and no pad, just a plain flap.

What do we need to ride flatwork well? We need to be able to sit in a neutral pelvis, supported, and pain and tension free, if we want the gold standard. We need to be able to move the hips/pelvis as the horse moves, and to aid. We need the spine stacked in correct alignment above, naturally, so that the disks can absorb the maximum amount of upward force from the horse.

We need to be able to "drape" the leg with some inward rotation, the inner thigh on the saddle, the knee soft in all paces, with the foot under the hip.

Will a dressage saddle do that? In most ranges you're more likely to achieve that in a dressage saddle, purely because of the stirrup bar placement, a bit further back to get the foot under the hip. However, most are indeed deep with bog blocks which restricts hip function, damages your lower back (see how many top dressage riders survive on pain killers) and damages the way your horse moves, especially if you really rely on them and lean back.

All of the brands I fit have the same seat shape in dressage, GP, jump, there is no distinction. It's about selecting the saddle for your pelvis, hip and upper leg conformation, to match the shape of your horse's ribcage, and to enable both of you to move optimally. If the saddle doesn't allow you to be a stable load, better able to be in the right place to help the horse push up in front, then it's pointless.

And one more factor - the further back in the saddle but, more importantly on the horses back, you sit the harder it is for the horse to carry you. Look at the balance point for these saddles - is the deepest/narrowest point near the stirrup bar or is it nearer the cantle? Is the widest part of the seat close to the cantle? All signs of a rear balanced saddle. Forward balance can be a little scary to ride in initially, your body sometimes loses its proprioceptive ability, but it's ideal for the horse if you really want them to work in correct balance (rarely seen).

Graphic to illustrate the issue with locking up the hips/pelvis.

 

[sbloom]

One more thing, show saddles can potentially be the worst of all worlds. Rear balance point, forward stirrup bar (GP position, and judges are used to it even if you wanted one set further back!) and a straight cut - the first two factors make the knee go forward, as does the wide ribcage of many show horses (plus puts the leg into external rotation) and the last then blocks the knee or rotates it even further outwards. If you're sitting well in yours, great, but it's rare, and it's likely that you've learned to sit in it, with tension.

 

[Wizpop]

My contribution to this conversation.
Having ridden in dressage saddles for a number of years, the thing that has made a difference for me is the placement of the stirrup bars in combination with the depth of seat. I’ve always felt as though I wasn’t well balanced- in spite of being told that I am. I’ve found recently that I’m more comfortable in a VSD and my instructor agreed that I ‘ride better’ in it. I think that this is mainly due the the placing of the stirrup bars.
I honestly think that it’s about riding in a saddle that you feel fits you, sits you in the correct position, and your horse moves well in. I’m not sure dressage saddles are for all of us.

 

[little_critter]

My contribution to this conversation.
Having ridden in dressage saddles for a number of years, the thing that has made a difference for me is the placement of the stirrup bars in combination with the depth of seat. I’ve always felt as though I wasn’t well balanced- in spite of being told that I am. I’ve found recently that I’m more comfortable in a VSD and my instructor agreed that I ‘ride better’ in it. I think that this is mainly due the the placing of the stirrup bars.
I honestly think that it’s about riding in a saddle that you feel fits you, sits you in the correct position, and your horse moves well in. I’m not sure dressage saddles are for all of us.

Although that can vary between brands too, I had an Equipe dressage saddle that put me in a chair seat. My current Bliss doesn't.

 

[sbloom]

Although that can vary between brands too, I had an Equipe dressage saddle that put me in a chair seat. My current Bliss doesn't.

I find that the vast majority of dressage saddles, including most of riders' own saddles, sit the rider in a chair seat. If you look at the top riders barely any of them are over their feet, most lean back especially in extension. And, further, most continental saddles are forward balance, Equipe should certainly have forward balance options at least, but it's possible to fit them so the rider is in the wrong place and therefore so are the bars.

Interestingly the shorter your pelvis the smaller seat size you need, all things being equal, and because they sit you REALLY forward relative to the pommel, the stirrup bar may need to be more forward, and same for, typically male, riders with shorter femurs, longer calves and big feet.

We are all individuals and should always be fitted as such.

 

[VictoriaSponge]

We mixed and matched dressage and showing. My plan was showing as never really competed dressage but he started doing rather well in his GP saddle so luckily found a nice second hand dressage saddle. Fairly small knee rolls and no other blocks. Bought him a Black Country showing saddle for his showing classes. I use the dressage saddle (it was my first dressage saddle after GP saddles, very slight dressage/WH saddle, showing saddles) as my main saddle and even use it in some ridden showing classes as it fits him well and isn't bulky at all. Just find one that is comfortable for you both, it doesn't have to have huge blocks.

Yes, I think blocks will be avoided, though I’m open to anything as long as I don’t feel like I’m forced into such an unnatural position.

My DH makes a lot of VSD saddles - they are straight enough cut to allow you to ride longer, but they also provide enough support without being restrictive.

I totally agree with you regarding dressage saddles! Most of them have seats as deep as a bucket, and knee blocks that are sprouting out like wings. Dreadful things.

See this is my impression! I know that good ones will be out there, but it’s a bit of a minefield.

My 8 y/o is going well at novice and I was given some money from my aged parents. I treated myself to a lovely new dressage saddle - the likes of I've never spent £££'s on before.

I lasted 6 weeks and hated every minute of it - he went well in it - which is why I persevered for so long.

It has knackered my back forcing my pelvis to tilt forward and me have a curve in my back when riding - this has knackered by pelvis too - my physio was shocked with the swelling / level of pain I was in.
It started off not hurting when riding - just a couple of hours later, that progressed to being in agony after anything more than 25 mins.

The saddler did choose this one as it was a 'starter' dressage saddle and not too restrictive - small blocks - I took these off after week 3 completely but it didn't make any difference. It was the v deep seat that was the problem with my pelvis angle.
Saddle had movable stirrup bars and that didn't help either.

My boy is native shaped and the saddler said there are a couple of much flatter seated styles of dressage saddle that my pelvis might cope with - but they don't make them on trees that would fit my horse

So have spent 4 figures I'm now back in straighter cut GP saddle - shame as he can and should go further but I'll not be trying a dressage saddle again.

OP - strongly recommend you try a few out before buying.

Gosh that does not sound like a pleasant experience at all, and a scary thought that much damage was done in a short amount I of time.

I love my dressage saddles they are all I use to ride my 2 now I used to do Arab showing with them they both have Lavinia Mitchell Dressage saddles now, they don't have huge blocks they are removable ones so I just put smaller ones on them and you don't feel restricted at all they are just really comfy.

I did do ridden showing with Arabi's one as I had it made to order so opted for short girth straps as he didn't get on with dressage girths anyway no one ever commented on it in the show ring.

I feel like removable blocks would be a good place to start, I’d certainly be happy to show in it too.

 

[VictoriaSponge]

Dressage saddle schmessage saddle. Honestly.

I am a rider fit specialist saddle fitter. By convention, for ease of classification, we have grouped saddles according to activity. Before the 70s there weren't really very different types of saddle for hunting, jumping or dressage, they all looked a bit like a show saddle and had no or only a tiny knee block, and no pad, just a plain flap.

What do we need to ride flatwork well? We need to be able to sit in a neutral pelvis, supported, and pain and tension free, if we want the gold standard. We need to be able to move the hips/pelvis as the horse moves, and to aid. We need the spine stacked in correct alignment above, naturally, so that the disks can absorb the maximum amount of upward force from the horse.

We need to be able to "drape" the leg with some inward rotation, the inner thigh on the saddle, the knee soft in all paces, with the foot under the hip.

Will a dressage saddle do that? In most ranges you're more likely to achieve that in a dressage saddle, purely because of the stirrup bar placement, a bit further back to get the foot under the hip. However, most are indeed deep with bog blocks which restricts hip function, damages your lower back (see how many top dressage riders survive on pain killers) and damages the way your horse moves, especially if you really rely on them and lean back.

All of the brands I fit have the same seat shape in dressage, GP, jump, there is no distinction. It's about selecting the saddle for your pelvis, hip and upper leg conformation, to match the shape of your horse's ribcage, and to enable both of you to move optimally. If the saddle doesn't allow you to be a stable load, better able to be in the right place to help the horse push up in front, then it's pointless.

And one more factor - the further back in the saddle but, more importantly on the horses back, you sit the harder it is for the horse to carry you. Look at the balance point for these saddles - is the deepest/narrowest point near the stirrup bar or is it nearer the cantle? Is the widest part of the seat close to the cantle? All signs of a rear balanced saddle. Forward balance can be a little scary to ride in initially, your body sometimes loses its proprioceptive ability, but it's ideal for the horse if you really want them to work in correct balance (rarely seen).

Graphic to illustrate the issue with locking up the hips/pelvis.

Thanks @sbloom that’s really interesting. It makes sense that in my previous experience with dressage saddles I felt as if my hips were wedged in and I had very little choice in where my legs went. I’m lucky with my current Black Country that I do find it supportive and use it daily, but have ridden in horrendous show saddles where there really is nowhere to go and I almost end up “perching”.

I’m hoping I can pick one up second hand, but it can be tricky to get fitters to come out just to fit a second hand saddle, but I certainly need to try a few before committing.

 

[Birker2020]

I was lucky enough to swap my horrible 'made to measure' Barnsby GP saddle that I won in a competition for a lovely Isabelle saddle which I'd only ridden in a handful of times before not being able to school my horse anymore due to injury.

I keep saying I'm going to sell it but might as well keep it for the next horse now.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I think I have a picture where you can see the front of it somewhere will find it.

 

[sbloom]

Thanks @sbloom that’s really interesting. It makes sense that in my previous experience with dressage saddles I felt as if my hips were wedged in and I had very little choice in where my legs went. I’m lucky with my current Black Country that I do find it supportive and use it daily, but have ridden in horrendous show saddles where there really is nowhere to go and I almost end up “perching”.

I’m hoping I can pick one up second hand, but it can be tricky to get fitters to come out just to fit a second hand saddle, but I certainly need to try a few before committing.

So few of us can afford to carry a ton of stock (even if it belongs to customers we still need the space, and a big enough van to bring everything) to offer a comprehensive second hand service for everyone that might book them, and it IS harder to make a living. It's no less effort on the whole to fit a second hand saddle than a new one, and very few in this industry are making a seriously decent living. Wanting a great fit for horse AND rider, which we should all want, does mean it's much more difficult to do on a second hand budget and especially when the "industry standard" type of design actually isn't good for horses or riders.

VSDs can be good, but it all depends on the VSD, the ones I fit have a GP bar which won't suit all riders for a flatwork position, though some sit great in them. See if you can think about which seats seemed to stabilise you instrinsically, and whether you think they had wider seats, shorter seats etc, it may help guide you as to what would be better for your pelvic shape. I used to think I just didn't like deep seats/high pommels as it gave me pain in the delicate bits (so I tipped back onto my pockets, I don't do pain) but sitting in a rider-friendly 16.5 gave me a complete "aha" moment as I could actually sit in neutral. Turns out I was never going to be comfortable in neutral in the much narrower 17.5s I'd always been fitted into. On average the bigger the seat size the narrower the area of support and the more potential to be sat behind the stirrups.

For anyone interested in all this, follow Maria Hallring on FB.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Found one you can see the blocks are not big at all I just asked for gp blocks I have used the saddle without them as well.

 

[splashgirl45]

Maybe look at older dressage saddles that don’t have huge blocks , I had an Albion legend dressage saddle and loved it . It was quite old and I sold it for a small amount of money to someone I knew locally and she is very happy with it and so is her horse …I’ve ridden in the newer saddles with big blocks and felt too restricted

 

[Squeak]

Maybe try a few different types and see how you get on. I figure I need all the help and I can get and there's a reason that people at the higher levels use them - if they were all rubbish then people wouldn't. Getting one that suits you and your horse is important though.

Fwiw I've had a couple over the years and currently have quite an old fashioned one with removable knee blocks. It's possible to show in it because it's not monoflap, has short girth straps and not a massively deep seat but also able to compete and school in it at AM.

In the past I've had a saddle that held me in place a lot more and I appreciated the support.

 

[Amyrose875]

Go for it! But I would be looking at second hand, there are so many top quality ones that haven’t been used much

 

[Sussexbythesea]

Personally I’ve never found a dressage saddle that I really get on with better than my GP although doesn’t mean I haven’t tried. Maybe it’s my shape. I definitely wouldn’t buy new unless I was loaded. Also whenever I’ve taken the plunge and bought one almost without exception horse has gone lame at that point and we’ve never been competitive again. Got one sitting unused at the moment.