COPD, riding, weight: misery v extra years

Box_Of_Frogs

Box_Of_Frogs

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In vets too - sorry, long. Please be brutally honest, good or bad. I'm too close to it.

Sunny is 25. He's a Section D x cob - 15.3. Still in light work. Loves his food. For the past 4 summers (May - October) he's had RAO/COPD from an allergic reaction to pollen. It's got progressively worse. He's now on inhaled Ventiplmin and steroids. Supposed to be watching his weight but the grass is knee deep everywhere and it's difficult. He comes in from about 9am to 3pm every day to get him off the grass. He has a flat scoop of Spillers High Fibre cubes to come in to and a handful with a mug of Bailey's Lo Cal when he goes out. No haynet in the stable, but bucket of Hi Fi Lite that he mostly ignores. So I'm not stuffing hard feed down him day and night. Last winter, with a careful diet I got him down to under 500kg (and he looked ghastly) but, as mother nature intended, he's put most of it back on this summer and is currently about 570kg. Shining with health, happy, chilled, adorable lad. But I can't stabilise his breathing. Dyspnoea - there's a terrible word. Trouble breathing. He has permanently damaged lungs and breathes deeply all the time now so that if he needs extra oxygen he's stuffed. I can't believe there's any pollen in the air any more. Hammered down all day here. But Sunny's breathing is laboured to the degree that he couldn't be ridden except for a stroll round the edges of the yard fields. But the vets say he needs light exercise. I totally understand that being overweight isn't good for anyone, man or beast, but would 40kg lighter miraculously make his allergy less? I could stable him for 23 hours a day but all that will happen is I will end up with a skinny horse with bad RAO who is very very unhappy. What the hell do I do? Today I thought his end might be next spring because of the damage done every year by the RAO. The lovely lady who rides him twice a week for me really put the frighteners on me because she said that at age 25 every extra year I had Sunny was a bonus. I was horrified. Overnight it's gone from a difficult problem to a poss pts. Getting vets out but they can't work miracles or repair damaged lungs.

So what do I do. Have him pts before next summer? Starve him down to a miserable horse with RAO? Do nothing? Carry on for as long as he's happy? Been browsing vet sites through Google and I've just read something that says grunts and groans in an RAO/COPD horse are usually an indication of pain. Sunny grunts and groans a lot, usually after a coughing bout. Please can you just give me the truth. What would you do?
 
What would I do?
I'd wait to see what the vet says about his current breathing problems.
Then I'd research any other treatments that might help him - using online journals, etc.
I might ask a different vet practice for a second opinion (perhaps get a referral from the first vet).
And then I would keep him going over the winter to see if there is any improvement, whilst I thought about what decision to make next spring - whether to PTS or keep going.
S :D
 
Id get the weight off him to be honest, Ive got a stallion that has bad copd and have found the bliss bedding, thats coated in ecyliptys (sp) and one of the licks that have various things in do actully help his breathing. I used to notice how the bedding used to clear my airways when I walked into the stable.

As for the exercise how about long reining him on a walk for the time being rather than adding the weight of a human to him?

I certinally dont think he needs to be pts, well soaked hay in the stable to keep him amused or in a starvation paddock, also we are heading to wards more rain and chilly nights that alone should help him to drop a few pounds?
 
Why don't you muzzle him ? I use a shires one on mine, he had lami few years back, he has it on all the time when turned out summer and winter, he wasn't particularly overweight, I didn't think so anyway, but he went from approx 500kg to low 400g ish, I adjust his high fibre cubes and other feed when I think he's the right weight, I weigh him every couple of weeks but I know by eye now. He's 15.2 and is 30 years old cob/arab

This is him last winter looking a little too lean but gives you an idea, he has COPD as well but not as bad as your boy
xmas09blazeage31.jpg


This was him a few summers ago before getting lami

CricklandsshowAug2005Pic2.jpg

Suppose looking at that he does look overweight, but I didn't think so at the time, he had lami few years after that pic was taken
 
Get his weight down.

Stable all day, or full time for a week, or all day with an hour's turnout in the school/lami paddock/holding pen whatever you have access to.

Hay - ad lib, but soak it for twleve hours.

Feed - none, unless you need some vits in him, in which case speak to the vet.

Bedding - non-dust variety, so no straw or dusty shavings.

Exercise - walk out in-hand, or long-rein in the school or down the lane (depends on nature of the lane and gradient, etc.).

The horses that I know with COPD (or whatever the new name for it is), have always done better when they are lighter and fitter.
 
i posted this in vets-
Do you rug him at all in winter? Ive found the best way to get weight off is to minimally rug- just a LW to keep off rain and wind when wet and naked when cold but dry.

When stabled what bedding do you use? What bedding is nearby? The only bedding i would consider for a RAO horse is mats and cardboard or paper. Wet removed everyday and never muck out when horse is in the stable. If there is unsoaked hay, deep litter, straw or shavings, etc in his stable or close by then the dust and ammonia will not help- quite the opposite.

Have you seen Nostrilvet? its a fine powder that turns to a sticky 'glue' on contact with moisture. you squirt it up their nostrils and it traps the allergens like pollen or dust beforeit can reach the lungs.

Have you tried a vitamin c supplement? or very high antioxidant supplement. Winergy ventilate springs to kind, especially as its scientifically proven to improve lung health. Herbs wise nettles are very good (antioxidants), as are things like hawthorn and buckwheat as they improve capillary strength and hence blood flow. Marshmallow leaves help get rid of mucous if there is any.
With lung damage the free radicals are very high and antioxidants are a must to help keep them at a level that isnt damaging. so if youre not feeding anything then that might be worth a try- and they wont put weight on!

You may have thought of all of this but it may help?
 
Your post touched a raw nerve with me. I have a ten year old with bad pollen related RAO. I have not ridden him in weeks, he is in 8.30 to 4.00 every day - looks fed up and the inhalers have made no difference. He is off insurance and the bills are horrendous, he has been on so many different drugs to try to stabilise his breathing. If I try to work him his nose bleeds.

I am pursuing a loss of use claim then I think PTS will be the only option. I cannot bear him to spend next summer looking as miserable as he has this one. He has other metabolic problems too which just complicate matters.

I am devastated by this and understand your dilemma only too well. The other major issue for me is that my income has become a bit precarious and I cannot see that changing any time soon so that will be me without a horse probably for good.

Be brave - stand back and look closely at him, ask yourself what you would think if this was a friends horse and not yours - sometimes helps to get a bit of perspective.

Take care
 
I woudl have him turned out in a bare paddock to start with- electric fence off small bits and gradually enlarge.
I would cut out the hi fi lite. I would cut out the scoop of feed and use an apple or small handful in a bucket to bring him in.
If bringing him in alleviates his allergies, I'd bring him in during the day and turn out at night.
If he was suffering I would pts, but not before then. If his breathing is distressing him then I would pts/ change drugs but if he's happy in the field + content in stable then whats the harm?
 
Sorry to hear about your dilemma. I know what you are going through as I am in a similar position. My pony started with breathing issues in 2006 and every May he starts coughing. After lots of investigations we have established that it is a pollen allergy and he is on vet meds (prednisolone, Ventipulmin and several courses of Sputilosin) all summer. He is picking up now but there is still pollen around although it is now weed pollen as opposed to grass and after that will come Fungal Spores. If your boy is still struggling have you considered he may have picked up an infection due to the steriods lowering his immune system? This has happened to mine for the past two years and a course of Baytril works wonders. Have you thought about herbs? Some horses respond well. Have a look at a site called equinatural, it cant' hurt and it may help.

I know you will make the right decision for your boy when the time comes. Good luck.
 
I've always valued your advice! You will know what best to do for your boy....but if it is any help, our little sec A was in the same position last year, with chest problems related to Cushings. She couldn't work for a while because of breathing problems, pollen and harvest dust related. She was put on Pergolide for the Cushings (I presume this is unrelated to your problem?) and Respimin from the vets plus an inhaler. (Ventipulmin didn't touch it) I put her on 12 hour soaked hay and a handful of happy hoof in the daytime to get the powders down which also include D and H mobility which has good herbs in it. She's in during the day on cardboard and rubber, and out at night. After she went on Respimin and mobility I had to use the inhaler just once. This year, she has got fit enough to be in our PC mounted games team that went to the championships. I wouldn't want to have her go on a fast 12 mile fun ride as her stamina is short but she can hack and do short whizzy fun things now whereas last summer I expected her to have been PTS by now. She has sailed through the pollen and harvest season with no coughs or heaves. A much happier, fitter pony through management, herbs and Respimin. Good luck and perhaps ask your vet about Respimin?
 
Strip graze and Breatheasy, that way you can control the grazing and the breatheasy in a very small short feed and that way you take of the extra pounds slowly and help his breathing.:):)
 
There's lots of good advice above, so all I can add is; I know some-one whose pony had a similar problem. In desperation the vet suggested using piriton, it worked. Sorry I don't know the dosage. I would certainly strip-graze/muzzle for weight loss. And if it really comes to misery vs extra years, I'd think 'what's the point of extra miserable years?' I do feel for you, we have made the decision to pts our 28 yr old before the winter.
 
Mmm - also suggest trying Piriton plus what worked for mine was a metholated horslyx-type lick.

As for not much pollen this time of year. My hayfever - coloured snot and "heavy" restricted lungs is at it's worst at the moment. Shame I'm allergic to hayfever tablets!

I'd also strip graze provided you are ok to leave a very very short piece of grass, moving the fence by only a few inches each day means they have to work hard for what they are getting most of the time but means that they are very pleased and excited when the fence moves for them. It's like a treat every time!

My Section D is 25 as well. We are noticing signs of his aging and really really don't want to see them:(
 
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