COPD?

floradora09

floradora09

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I've had my 15yo TB for three months now, and know pretty much his whole history. My instructor had him when he was 5 until he was about 10, and she kept him out on the whole I think. Then he went to kent when she left for Uni, and he's been there until now. In kent he was very mollicoddled, and kept in certainly at nights every winter, but maybe more. He'd also been put out on loan there for six months so I don't know how they kept him.

We kept him in at nights until the end of the winter as that's how he had been kept, but now he is (and hopefully will be next winter too) out 24/7, as I prefer them out.

When we tried him I noticed a bit of white discharge from his nose, and he's had it on and off (but admittedly more on than off!) for the duration that I've had him. We had him 5-stage vetted and the vet listened to breathing, heart rate etc and didn't pick up on anything. It hasn't seemed to bother him at all, until now, when he's started coughing a bit if it's a hot day (maybe pollen/dust related?) and once I checked on him in the field and he was taking more, shallow breaths, and his airways sounded quite gunked up.

So... COPD? As I wrote that I think I know the answer myself! My parents would be reluctant to get the vet out (naturally!), but the vet's often down at the yard anyway so I could get her to look at him next time she's out.

Or, shall I try one of the NAF products (which one?!) first to see if there's an improvement? As surely all the vet would do is confirm he has COPD and prescribe something?

Thanks very much! :D
 
I think you need a vet, and should get one to look at your horse before you start dosing it with unproven herbal remedies.
It may be nothing, but why take the risk? And set your parents straight - when you buy a horse, you buy the possibility of huge vet bills too. and should accept the responsibility.
S :D
 
If it is a pollen allergy, I highly recommend the NAF five star respirator. Took my pony from a constantly sneezing, mucous streaming, miserable little girl who rubbed her nose on everything in sight to try to get rid of the irritants, to one with a clear nose who is now exactly as she was last winter!
 
Mine's just having something similar over last 3-4 days - white occasional discharge from a nostril usually after exercise though not quantities, just one snotty dribble and that's it. But since yesterday has an infrequent small dry cough. Our yard and forage very dusty (am soaking hay) and he's having to be in off the grass for a good 12 hrs at a time. So I have assumed dust/pollen issue but am monitoring carefully. When out hacking he does find pollen etc annoying. Mine has NAF Easy Breathing supplement as a matter of course all year round anyway but I bought their Kof-eze yesterday to see if that helps. If doesn't improve in a day or two will get the vet. I gently wipe out the end of his nostrils with damp sponge too as the dirt and dust you can see dried there is visible so hoping it is just overload of dust/pollen at the moment.
 
The Global Herbs products are excellent and you will find that they make a difference - they give advice over the phone too. However Shilasdair is correct - if you don't know the cause you should consult the vet, although not urgently I think.
 
the watcher said:
The Global Herbs products are excellent and you will find that they make a difference - they give advice over the phone too. However Shilasdair is correct - if you don't know the cause you should consult the vet, although not urgently I think.
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The reason I suggested a vet was that the OP said her horse was taking frequent shallow breaths while at rest in the field; this could be COPD (or RAO as it is now known) but it could also be an indicator of other things, including possible heart problems.
An inability to breathe normally is serious enough to need a vet sooner rather than later.
S :D
 
Shilasdair said:
The reason I suggested a vet was that the OP said her horse was taking frequent shallow breaths while at rest in the field; this could be COPD (or RAO as it is now known) but it could also be an indicator of other things, including possible heart problems.
An inability to breathe normally is serious enough to need a vet sooner rather than later.
S :D
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Sorry, meant to add to this that at the time he sounded quite gunked up through his throat, so was thinking more breathing than heart related. That was the worst I've seen him, and it was on an extremely hot day. Will get the vet to look, as I feel it's not urgent but I've been wondering about it for a while.

Thanks for the help everyone! :)
 
It does sound like RAO, with the allergen as pollen, so commonly known as summer pasture disease. Horses with pollen allergies show no symptoms from October to May, although if a horse has had a serious bout, he may have permanently altered lung sounds and that would have been identified at the vetting. My horse Sunny has RAO and the allergen is pollen. He had a bad time of it last summer as a virus went round the yard that gave him a nasty chest infection on top of the RAO. He now has permanently altered lung sounds - he has to breathe deeply all the time to get enough oxygen into his body. Extra exertion can make him struggle as he cannot breathe any more deeply. He is currently on a high dose of Ventipulmin but with the pollen count at an all time high at the moment, he is very wheezy and his cough is more noticeable. If things don't settle in a week, he's going onto inhaled Ventipulmin and inhaled steroids. This method delivers the drugs direct to the area they are needed and is a much safer way for a horse to have steroids.

Herbal supplements. I guess you love 'em or hate 'em but I would beg people to think it through logically. The symptoms of RAO are caused by the body's over-reaction to a "normal" substance in the horse's environment. It's an identical mechanism to that in people. If herbal supplements worked - and I mean for every horse/person, every time - then they would be prescribed by GPs, Vets, hospital consultants etc etc etc. They aren't. You don't prescribe a herbal supplement for a peanut allergy. Pollen allergy is the exact same mechanism, just not quite as severe. Don't get me wrong - the power of a placebo should never be underestimated and years ago, aspirin from willow trees was a "herbal" supplement! Many conditions that seem like, but aren't, RAO will clear up on their own. If that then coincides with an owner providing a supplement, then it's easy to make wrong/untested assumptions. Most herbal supplements can't do any harm but please, to prevent long term damage to your horse's lungs, consult your vet first.
 
On the other hand, Emerald came to me with confirmed COPD, noisy breath sounds at all times and we tried the veterinary route with no real improvement.

Finally, in desperation, I went to Global Herbs to try their products. It is said that COPD is permanent damage but I can say that her breathing improved to such an extent that on examination a new vet didn't even notice it until I pointed it out. This improvement has been over a period of several years, it should be said and is in conjunction with careful management of her environment.

She still gets a bit breathy from time to time - dust is the trigger, and then she gets her herbal mix again, but for most of the year she is symptom and supplement free (no I don't work for them, or get commission!)

The difference is that I know exactly what the problem is.
 
Supplements have there place once a diagnosis has been made. if your horse does have COPD, a respiratory supplement will be PART of the advice you are given.

Whilst insurance policies vary, those i have seen have stated that your policy can be invaildated if you do not refer to a vet when appropriate. In other words they can refuse to pay out on a claim.

As i have recently learnt, what appears to be COPD can sometimes be a lot more sinister. 2 years ago i bought a teenage connemara as a hack/companion thinking he had mild COPD. His breathing was checked as part of a 2 stage vetting and vet at time attributed noisey lungs to COPD/allergies. He was pts due to respiratory symptons at the end of April 2010 and the post mortem found no sign of COPD. Scoping is needed for a definite diagnosis.

The only positive side is that he was strictly managed for COPD and this probably extended his life.
 
mtj said:
As i have recently learnt, what appears to be COPD can sometimes be a lot more sinister. 2 years ago i bought a teenage connemara as a hack/companion thinking he had mild COPD. His breathing was checked as part of a 2 stage vetting and vet at time attributed noisey lungs to COPD/allergies. He was pts due to respiratory symptons at the end of April 2010 and the post mortem found no sign of COPD. Scoping is needed for a definite diagnosis.

The only positive side is that he was strictly managed for COPD and this probably extended his life.
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How very sad. Probably though 99/100 vets would have called it as COPD on breath sounds alone and very few would routinely scope
 
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