Correct Diagonal - STILL CANT GET IT !

[Gingerwitch]

I have been riding for years and years and years - for many years I had a mare with a strange trot action behind - and she would always double you and get you onto the wrong diagonal when your on the left rein - well I am appalled to admit that I have lost the nack of knowing if I am on the right diagonal (if i ever had it !) - in canter I can tell in a second - in trot - no chance - I always have to start on the right hand rein and then change to left to make sure I am on the correct one. I have tried looking at the inside shoulder, outside shoulder, looking at my shadow, in a mirror -aghghgghghghgghghghghghghgh The more i try the worse I get - 3 instructors have given up with me - and my latest one is nearing the end of her tether. I am ashamed and feel stupid and thick -!

advice anyone ?

 

[soulfull]

yeah its when the outside shoulder/leg comes back you should sit

My old horse always used to put me on the wrong one, so now I know I am always wrong to start on it and just change it without even thinking

 

[devilwoman]

I have been riding for years and years and years - for many years I had a mare with a strange trot action behind - and she would always double you and get you onto the wrong diagonal when your on the left rein - well I am appalled to admit that I have lost the nack of knowing if I am on the right diagonal (if i ever had it !) - in canter I can tell in a second - in trot - no chance - I always have to start on the right hand rein and then change to left to make sure I am on the correct one. I have tried looking at the inside shoulder, outside shoulder, looking at my shadow, in a mirror -aghghgghghghgghghghghghghgh The more i try the worse I get - 3 instructors have given up with me - and my latest one is nearing the end of her tether. I am ashamed and feel stupid and thick -!

advice anyone ?

"ditto" - will read this with interest.

 

[Foxhunter49]

You will find that you have a 'favourite' diagonal and 99% of the time you will rise on the same one. Once you know that you always rise on the left start to rise then immediately change it.

 

[JFTDWS]

my cob is so "odd" and peculiarly balanced that you can rise on either comfortably without bothering him, so now with my highland I'm totally screwed - that is to say, welcome to the club

I have the solution though... sitting trot

 

[competitiondiva]

suppose you could try and put a sticky dot on the shoulder both sides and see them move forwards and back to ensure you sit on the correct one, until you gain the correct feeling, I can usually tell just by feel with my mare as we've been a partnership for so long.

 

[cob&onion]

You will find that you have a 'favourite' diagonal and 99% of the time you will rise on the same one. Once you know that you always rise on the left start to rise then immediately change it.

I have been riding for all my life and never thought about having a favorite diagonal, i always feel for it and know when am right. Will be looking out for it now!

 

[MiCsarah]

You want to come and ride my boy, he will soon tell you your on the wrong diagonal. My friend also has the same problem and I have to tell her shes on the wrong one constantly.
Maybe stick something to your horses shoulders (I cant seem to think of anything but a post-it note) so you can tell which way the shoulders are going easier until you pick it up?

 

[StormyMoments]

i used to be like this i took a year out of riding after breaking my leg in a riding accident then boom i could do it but it was because when i was riding before my mum nagged and shouted at me for being on the wrong diagonal so when i came back to riding it was drummed in to me and now it has become a problem with me as i constantly look down checking my diagonal

rise when the inside leg comes back or the outside forward... slow the trot down to more of a jog or slow trot as that way you can take your time looking for it

good luck dont get in to the habbit of looking down though its a pain to get out of!

 

[Birker2020]

As we have a favourite diagonal horses have a favourite leg too. Like we are left footed or right footed. See what foot your horse strikes off with when you go from walk to halt. Do it a number of times just to make sure. And walk him towards something he hasdto go round and see which direction he favours. My horse is right footed. Apparently there is some link between the whirls on a horses forehead and whether he is left or right footed. Honestly. Read it somewhere.

Here found it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair_whorl_(horse)

A study was done by Poland Scientists involving Konik horses, and they discovered a link between the location and the shape of hair whorls adjacent to the eyes of a horse with how it responds to handling and unfamiliar objects. From recorded observations horses that had a single whorl located above their eyes were more difficult to handle. Then the horses that also had a single whorl but located below or right in between their eyes were easier to handle. Whorls that were found to be elongated or doubled acted the most cautious when coming up to a unfamiliar object. They looked longer and were slower to approaching then the single whorled horses.[1]

On June 23, 2008, Irish researchers also found the same outcome when it came to horse whorls. Right-footed horses were more likely to have whorls growing in clockwise circles and left-handed horses more likely to have their whorls growing counterclockwise.

 

[JFTDWS]

Here found it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair_whorl_(horse)

On June 23, 2008, Irish researchers also found the same outcome when it came to horse whorls. Right-footed horses were more likely to have whorls growing in clockwise circles and left-handed horses more likely to have their whorls growing counterclockwise.

For my sanity, I have to mention that this is likely to be unrepeatable nonsense.

At a guess, I would see the problem arising from the fact that to define a horse as left or right footed, it would strike off on that leg the majority of time. The majority of those horses who strike off on one leg the majority of times are slightly more likely to have a whorl in one direction in the small (c. 100) groups studied...) To get significance you would have to do some neat stats, which would be unusual in a non-peer reviewed paper...

But the point about having a preferred leg is sound (I think?!)

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I used to have a Clydie mare who ALWAYS tipped you onto her preferred diagonal and if you tried to change, she 'tripped up' and put you back again!
OP, I wonder how long you mean when you say 'years and years and years'? I've been riding for over 40 years and when I had my first lessons, I was not taught about diagonals. Even now I have to concentrate really hard to know which diagonal I am on, as you say, I can tell which canter lead by feel immediately, because I was taught that at a young age.

 

[kaiko]

Ditto this. Ridden for 20 years and only just started dressage lessons this year to find to my horror, i always get it wrong. Now i sing to myself "rise and fall with the outside wall" and even threatened to put chalk X's on my boys shoulders so i could see them more clearly. He's huge so how can i miss it anyway!!!!

Getting better but the more i think the worse i am. As a kid i could just feel it, so infuriating at times and your right, you feel like a complete numpty. Stick with it though and get singing (if i'm going to look stupid, i might as well go the whole hog).

 

[Wagtail]

It is easy. Just rise as the horse's outside shoulder moves forwards. However, it does seem that some people have a complete mental block about this. One of my clients that I teach has only just grasped it after me giving her lessons for three years. I think she must have got really fed up with me saying 'check your diagonal' and then, 'no, you are still on the wrong diagonal' and as she tries to change again, 'STILL the wrong diagonal.' I felt really mean, like I was picking on her and nagging her. But now, at last she has it and changes to the right one before I can tell her. I think it is a similar thing to some people not easily knowing their left from right. To most people it is so easy, but some people just have a mental block. Must be something to do with the way their brains are wired.

 

[Tnavas]

Definately not the rider having a favourite diagonal but the horse throwing the rider onto the stronger diagonal.

A horse that stumbles or trips to get you back onto their comfortable diagonal may have a back problem or saddle fit problem.

The easiest way I've found to teach riders to rise on the correct diagonal is to have them ride round and first learn to change diagonal happily.

Then I ask them to rise to the trot and I let them know they are correct/incorrect, if incorrect they change and if now correct I tell them so and then get them to watch the outside shoulder for sometime a lap of the school, watching the shoulder coming back as they sit.

Then they are asked to go sitting and again start rising, again I let them know if they are correct/incorrect - keep repeating the exercise. Then instead of telling them if correct/incorrect I get them to tell me.

 

[Wagtail]

Definately not the rider having a favourite diagonal but the horse throwing the rider onto the stronger diagonal.

A horse that stumbles or trips to get you back onto their comfortable diagonal may have a back problem or saddle fit problem.

The easiest way I've found to teach riders to rise on the correct diagonal is to have them ride round and first learn to change diagonal happily.

Then I ask them to rise to the trot and I let them know they are correct/incorrect, if incorrect they change and if now correct I tell them so and then get them to watch the outside shoulder for sometime a lap of the school, watching the shoulder coming back as they sit.

Then they are asked to go sitting and again start rising, again I let them know if they are correct/incorrect - keep repeating the exercise. Then instead of telling them if correct/incorrect I get them to tell me.

That is a good point, getting them to learn to change their diagonal BEFORE teaching them which is correct. My client kept trying to change but always ended up still on the same diagonal. I think that was the hardest part for her.

 

[gracey]

..I was always taught to sit the first to beats of trot and rise on the third ..if this helps any?? x

 

[ruth83]

Try NOT LOOKING for your diagonal but feeling instead. Set off in trot, start rising for a dozen strides, then change your diagonal and rise for another dozen beats. Decide which felt easier and smoother to rise to, the first diagonal or the second and go to that one. 9 times out of 10 it will be correct (exceptions of course for those who have horses with strange movement).
The more you do this the less time it will take you to decide which one is correct until you then know as soon as you start rising.

 

[MrsMozart]

Like many I learnt to ride a zillion years ago and diagonals weren't mentioned

Now, I usually know if I'm on the right one, and I usually check (as it's not yet ingrained), but I've just watched a video of me from a dressage test and I rode most of it on the wrong one

More practice...

OP - try looking down and when the outside shoulder comes back, sit your bum down to meet it

 

[NOISYGIRL]

It is easy. Just rise as the horse's outside shoulder moves forwards. However, it does seem that some people have a complete mental block about this. One of my clients that I teach has only just grasped it after me giving her lessons for three years. I think she must have got really fed up with me saying 'check your diagonal' and then, 'no, you are still on the wrong diagonal' and as she tries to change again, 'STILL the wrong diagonal.' I felt really mean, like I was picking on her and nagging her. But now, at last she has it and changes to the right one before I can tell her. I think it is a similar thing to some people not easily knowing their left from right. To most people it is so easy, but some people just have a mental block. Must be something to do with the way their brains are wired.

I learnt this method, and don't have a problem, I just can't see how people can't see the shoulder coming forward and rise to it you don't have to bend or anything, just look down slightly, you just get used to it I suppose and it becomes automatic, I was taught it about 30 years ago

 

[Kat]

I'm confused...... do you mean

a) You can't tell without looking which diagonal you are on?
b) You can't tell even if you look which diagonal you are on?
c) You always seem to start on the wrong diagonal on one leg and then need to change?
d) You can't change the diagonal?


If you can explain the problem a bit more it might help us understand.....

You can practice out hacking, it is worth changing regularly so that your horse doesn't get too onesided, and so that you don't. I sometimes trot down the road doing a few strides on the right then switching for a few and then switching back etc.

 

[jumpingjasper]

I have also had issues with this too. i could not get it for ages and ages! i knew what i should have been looking for but just could not see it. two things have helped me get it 90% of the time which is alot better than it was. firstly i watched someone riding from the ground and my instructor kept asking is she right or wrong. so i learnt what it should look like from the ground if that makes sense. then when i was riding i would focus on what his outside leg was doing in walk and talk to myself as in 'back, forward, back, forward' then ask for trot and try to keep saying 'forward back' etc then i could think about wether i was sitting or rising at the right point as i could never see it when i looked down. it takes alot of concentration but it worked as i now can get it 90% i reckon which as i said is better than never!!!

 

[DougalJ]

Glad it is not just me that has this problem.....

 

[allyrow]

Hi dont rush into rising as soon as you start trotting or odds are you will be on the wrong diagonal from the start. Try to sit a few strides of trot and then begin to rise when the outside front leg goes forward.

To be honest i was at a show recently and couldn't beleive the amount of competitors who were all on the wrong diagonal. The judge didnt seem to pick up on it just mentioned to some that their horses were unbalanced, so maybe its not sucha huge problem.

After 5 years of learning to ride ( as a golden oldie) I still look down when i ask for trot but it makes such a difference when its right

good luck

 

[*hic*]

KristmassKat commented on something I was taught which was that whilst in a school you should change diagonal as appropriate, out hacking you should change diagonal on a regular basis - I do every 20 strides. It seems easy and natural to me and helps avoid unevenness in the horse.

So for those whose horses have a favourite diagonal do you just allow him or her to put you on that daigonal out hacking?

 

[Kat]

KristmassKat commented on something I was taught which was that whilst in a school you should change diagonal as appropriate, out hacking you should change diagonal on a regular basis - I do every 20 strides. It seems easy and natural to me and helps avoid unevenness in the horse.

So for those whose horses have a favourite diagonal do you just allow him or her to put you on that daigonal out hacking?

Yes that is what I was taught too, and if your horse has a tendancy to bump you onto one then surely it makes sense to make a point of doing "the other one" more on a hack........

 

[Horseback Rider]

I have never been able to tell if I am on the right one unless I look down and have been riding for 20 + years, however I have managed to pass BHS Stage 3 riding !

 

[Christmas Magic]

Oh,im not alone then My instructor told me to say out loud "up" "down"looking at his outside shoulder on walk,and then start trotting but sit for two/four/six beats shouting up-down-up-down and then start rising.Now i can get it 50%,and another 50%on the wrong.Easy when you walking and looking at the outside shoulder and saying"up" "down" and then rise,more difficult if doing lots of walk/trot transitions,because i cant always look at his shoulder,sometimes i need to look at where i'm going: )But it really helping me,saying it loud(other people must be thinking im mad)