Correct outline?

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Dodiee

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I've have been taught by 4 different instructors on 3 different horses, that to get an outline you get a forward pace and then massage the rein. However, this does seem to be just pulling the head in to look pretty, and I was wondering what's the 'correct' way to get a horse to engage and round?
 
I think the idea is that if you have impulsion and engagement from the hind end and a steady contact in front, the horse will naturally drop into an 'outline'.There should be no manipulation of the front end, it should come naturally from behind, and will only come with correct muscle development, which is why fiddling and pulling in the front end is only a temporary fix, and likely to result in the incorrect muscles developing.
 
Hedge_pig said:
I think the idea is that if you have impulsion and engagement from the hind end and a steady contact in front, the horse will naturally drop into an 'outline'.There should be no manipulation of the front end, it should come naturally from behind, and will only come with correct muscle development, which is why fiddling and pulling in the front end is only a temporary fix, and likely to result in the incorrect muscles developing.
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-"- This
To prove the point, my horse will put himself into a really nice outline on the lunge wearing just a rope halter. Try it for yourself - ride your horse on a steady lightish contact on the smallest circle he is comfortable with at the pace you are riding him at. The action of his inside hind stepping under will shift his centre of gravity so that to avoid falling on his nose he will have to raise his head slightly and draw it in. (You can feel it for yourself if you go down on all fours and then bring your knee well under your body - if you don't draw your head back and in you will fall on your face). It takes a bit of strengthening to keep it up though so don't insist on it the whole time - regard it as a gymnastic exercise aimed at building the right muscles.
 
My own thoughts on the subject... you read posts on here about how to get your horse in an "outline"... lots of different changes of rein, circles, this that and the other.

If you horse doesnt have the faintest idea of what your wanting him to do, then chances are he wont do it!

Not all horses will go in a nice "outline" on the lunge in a rope halter - quite the opposite. She reverts back to what she has done/been allowed to do most of her life/as she is naturally inclined, to looking like a giraffe on speed.
 
It's biomechanics - if the correct engagement of the hind legs is there they don't do it because you are asking, they do it because the biomechanics and balance mean they have to. If a horse is going like a giraffe on speed on the lunge, the circle is either too big so she isn't engaging, or too small so she is rushing to avoid bending. Which also applies in ridden work, and is the reason you often need someone on the ground to look at how far she is stepping under with the inside hind on a circle.
 
fiddling, pulling, fixing, sawing etc are big no nos..................but you need to use your hand as much as you use your leg-the horse must be submissive to both aids and not using the hand at all will give just an incorrect result as over using it.

the front end must be supple so that the energy steps all the way through to the hand and is not blocked by tension/stiffness.

moving the neck laterally as well as higher/lower/rounder/longer etc is the way to true suppleness and self carriage, not a static none moving contact (which is just as bad by being fixed and light as someone who fixes heavily to force the head in).

you will only develop elasticity via movement of the muscles.

its an impossibly topic to cover thoroughly on the internet-did any of these instructors have you riding with alternating inside and outside flexion, and to change that degree of flexion on circles and on straight lines. did they promote warming up in a lower or rounder outline than the main bulk of the work and returning to that outline in times of stress or as a reward. did they get you to move the shoulders without moving the quarters and vice versa.

if you can answer those clearly its going to give a better indication of them being a decent trainer or not IMO.
 
Training horses is about influencing them .
To train a horse you have to be able to influence the position of it's neck , that is not the same as holding it's head down with the hand .
As PS says it's a huge subject and it's a learning curve that never ends .
 
Lateral work has really helped my horse, he is now much more supple and stronger so he can now work in a better frame, a horse has to be physically strong enough to work in a consistant outline, just trotting around in a forward manor is not enough for some horses they need more of a workout.
 
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