Correcting Bad Behaviour - Planting, Rearing Cow Kicking etc

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Joyous70

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How do you correct bad behaviour in a youngster, such as cow kicking, rearing and planting when being led?

I use a dually for my youngster, and on the whole she is very good, however, occasionally she will do any of the above if not happy with a situation, i try and correct her behaviour with a short smack of the schooling whip, tug on the lead rope and growl to let her know im not happy but am i doing the right thing, should i be doing something else?
 
With a youngster she is testing boundaries - just ensure your boundaries are consistent, and keep teaching her. Most of those are self defence strategies, so what is she defending herself against? Something she doesn't like? Rough handling? Being taken away from her friends?
TEACH her, don't expect her to be pre programmed, and be a calm consistent leader that she needs. Not a bully, be firm but fair, and that will be a great investment for life. Each time she does it right, make sure she knows. Too many people ignore the good behaviour and punish the bad so the poor horse never actually knows what is wanted.
 
Firstly, I would look at the diet to see if there are any triggers for such behaviour. If there's nothing to suggest it's related to excess energy from food then I would correct the behaviour on the ground.

Why does she rear? Is it because she won't walk past something or unsure? My filly will plant and rear if she is unsure of something e.g. walking over a bridge or walking past geese. You just have to give them the time to look and process the information. Then I just ask for walk-on again. If you create a drama on top of a drama that's when the sparks fly.

If it's just randomly naughty, then I either stand stock still and let her tantrum. Then ask for her to get back beside me and the instant she is calm and focused on me again, we can walk. Or, I ask her to back up rather vigorously and ask her to stand. I've never used a whip, but I have pinched her on the shoulder, just like her mother or aunties' would. That normally makes her think if all else fails.

Ultimately, I need to be a fraction "scarier" than anything else out there. Not scary as in "i'm going to smack you" no, just scarier as in "ooh, better not do that, she might make me walk backwards or something!"

Oh, and just praise any good behaviour even if it's just walking nicely, a stroke on the neck, soothing words of "good girl" etc. Even the odd treat. It focuses their mind on you.
 
JillA said:
With a youngster she is testing boundaries - just ensure your boundaries are consistent, and keep teaching her. Most of those are self defence strategies, so what is she defending herself against? Something she doesn't like? Rough handling? Being taken away from her friends?
TEACH her, don't expect her to be pre programmed, and be a calm consistent leader that she needs. Not a bully, be firm but fair, and that will be a great investment for life. Each time she does it right, make sure she knows. Too many people ignore the good behaviour and punish the bad so the poor horse never actually knows what is wanted.
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Usually with the rearing and cow kicking its because she doesn't want to leave the field, the planting issue is generally because she is worried about where im asking her to go, i.e. last night, i wanted to take her up the other end of the barn, she protested, backed up etc., i circled her walked forward praising each time when she took a step in the right direction, she did eventually go to the end of the barn around the corner, so she had lots of fuss and a few pony nuts on the mouting block as she really was very scared.

Thank you for replying, you have made me feel a lot better about how im doing things, I try very hard to understand what it is thats causing the issue
 
tallyho! said:
Firstly, I would look at the diet to see if there are any triggers for such behaviour. If there's nothing to suggest it's related to excess energy from food then I would correct the behaviour on the ground.

Why does she rear? Is it because she won't walk past something or unsure? My filly will plant and rear if she is unsure of something e.g. walking over a bridge or walking past geese. You just have to give them the time to look and process the information. Then I just ask for walk-on again. If you create a drama on top of a drama that's when the sparks fly.

If it's just randomly naughty, then I either stand stock still and let her tantrum. Then ask for her to get back beside me and the instant she is calm and focused on me again, we can walk. Or, I ask her to back up rather vigorously and ask her to stand. I've never used a whip, but I have pinched her on the shoulder, just like her mother or aunties' would. That normally makes her think if all else fails.

Ultimately, I need to be a fraction "scarier" than anything else out there. Not scary as in "i'm going to smack you" no, just scarier as in "ooh, better not do that, she might make me walk backwards or something!"

Oh, and just praise any good behaviour even if it's just walking nicely, a stroke on the neck, soothing words of "good girl" etc. Even the odd treat. It focuses their mind on you.
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She is only on hay and grass at the moment, so i think the diet shouldn't be causing an issue.

I don't use the whip excessively, just a sharp tap on the shoulder or chest, usually is she's having a tantrum and trying to run me down, i'll remember the being more scary than anything else and see how we get on :)
 
Consistency is key. One thing I've learnt is not to take this behaviour personally! Stay calm but firm. My youngster went through a planting and rearing through excitement stage. I just made her work through it and through patience and calm consistent handling she has figured out it's easier not to do these things. I'd be careful of smacking spesh with a crop etc you don't want her to fear you and you need that trust for her to relax with you.

Routine, don't do too much, expect ground manners, desensitising, pressure and release, advance and retreat, there is lots of info online.

The first time my filly reared inhand I thought omg will she do this under saddle! But once I figured out why and got used to taking control and not being phased by it it stopped, well it hasnt happened for a while and if it did its no big deal I would be prepared. Normal youngster behaviour!
 
I use moving her feet (backing up) to correct getting in my space unasked. Practise half halts and halts inhand using voice. I do this to and from field as well as yielding hindquarters and flexing neck, again to enforce leadership. It really does enforce your leadership in a way they understand and respect.
 
Footprint said:
I use moving her feet (backing up) to correct getting in my space unasked. Practise half halts and halts inhand using voice. I do this to and from field as well as yielding hindquarters and flexing neck, again to enforce leadership. It really does enforce your leadership in a way they understand and respect.
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:) Thank you - this is the sort of thing i do with her when i walk her in the school, she learns very quickly and will back up nicely and move over when asked, however I am struggling a little with the half halts - any tips?
 
Pressure and release! So she is sensitive to the slightest feel from the rope, I say 'steady' and just 'squeeze' the rope for half halts naybe off and on if needed, i also may sure she doesnt get more than a nose ahead of my shoulder to begin with and 'woah' for a halt.

In regards to planting when my filly did this taking her down to her new field I'd do the usual backing up, circling, zigzagging but what has worked as well as routine is I used an 8 ft rope to lead and just walk on ahead near the end of the rope, I don't even look at her and she follows, no planting, I guess I've taken the pressure off and not so nagging she's made the choice to want to follow me.

We are all learning as we go, I didn't know all this when I got her!
 
Joyous70 said:
She is only on hay and grass at the moment, so i think the diet shouldn't be causing an issue.

I don't use the whip excessively, just a sharp tap on the shoulder or chest, usually is she's having a tantrum and trying to run me down, i'll remember the being more scary than anything else and see how we get on :)
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Yes, just ask her to back up out of your space if she tries to mow you down. Terrible manners!! :D Think "stern mum". What others have said about practising the boundaries is a good one too.

Stern Mum is what gets my filly to stand still while I am gossipping to dog walkers and friends. Can't stand fidgety horses when I'm trying to get the latest village news :D

She's only 19mo and stands like a good dog. If she could sit, I think she would. Once she is old enough to be ridden, I expect to able to pass fellow riders and walkers and stop and have pleasantries without a horse swinging it's backside or scaring people.
 
Footprint said:
Pressure and release! So she is sensitive to the slightest feel from the rope, I say 'steady' and just 'squeeze' the rope for half halts naybe off and on if needed, i also may sure she doesnt get more than a nose ahead of my shoulder to begin with and 'woah' for a halt.

In regards to planting when my filly did this taking her down to her new field I'd do the usual backing up, circling, zigzagging but what has worked as well as routine is I used an 8 ft rope to lead and just walk on ahead near the end of the rope, I don't even look at her and she follows, no planting, I guess I've taken the pressure off and not so nagging she's made the choice to want to follow me.

We are all learning as we go, I didn't know all this when I got her!
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:D I will give this a try this evening, with the half halts and giving her the whole 8ft of rope also - ive already learnt quite a lot since November when i first got her.
 
tallyho! said:
Yes, just ask her to back up out of your space if she tries to mow you down. Terrible manners!! :D Think "stern mum". What others have said about practising the boundaries is a good one too.

Stern Mum is what gets my filly to stand still while I am gossipping to dog walkers and friends. Can't stand fidgety horses when I'm trying to get the latest village news :D

She's only 19mo and stands like a good dog. If she could sit, I think she would. Once she is old enough to be ridden, I expect to able to pass fellow riders and walkers and stop and have pleasantries without a horse swinging it's backside or scaring people.
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Yes she does have terribly bad manners sometimes, generally when being brought in, most of the time she's very good and will stand nicely, stops when coming towards me if i put my hand up. I will have to remember being stern mum - maybe i should have had children before i took on a youngster :rolleyes:

I must agree terribly distracting having a dancing horse when trying to get all the latest gossip :D
 
Oh and 24/7 turnout with others can sort out a lot of behavioural issues! Mines living out in a few weeks so will be able to do more when she's chilled out! Can't wait!
 
Footprint said:
Oh and 24/7 turnout with others can sort out a lot of behavioural issues! Mines living out in a few weeks so will be able to do more when she's chilled out! Can't wait!
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She was getting 24/7 turnout, but due to the field being a complete bog is having to have some time in at the moment.

I am hoping that i can turn her out tonight with her field buddy and leave them out again.
 
Oh I know, mines been in at night since dec with daily turnout which is better than most and luckily she's accepted it ok, although she's a lot more mouthey after being in! She's teething worse than my toddler!
 
Just another tip with the rearing inhand. When mine first did this I chose to give her rope and let her run round me, big mistake as she then got overexcited and started bronking and double barrelling! So next time I took a different approach, I noted the signs, stopping suddenly head up high and nostrils flared, so I took control, kept the rope short and walked her firmly on. Soooo I had contact on the rope without tensly holding onto her head but also had the leverage in order to keep her head down, if they can't get their head up they can't rear! Then I made sure her attention remained on me, taking to her and leading her in different directions. Moving feet burns adrenaline so should calm down quicker than standing still, filly's issue was down to excitement though at seeing other horses so I was careful not to get on her too much I just needed to diffuse the situation. I haven't used a dually but be aware if the dually tightens youngster may rear to try to get away from the pressure rather than move forward if allowed to stop.... Just a thought, have you tried a rope halter?

When leading you can also stick your elbow out to maintain your space, that's a good one to prevent barginess!
 
Footprint said:
Oh I know, mines been in at night since dec with daily turnout which is better than most and luckily she's accepted it ok, although she's a lot more mouthey after being in! She's teething worse than my toddler!
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I would have liked mine in at night out in the day over winter, but due to circumstances it would have proved difficult to turn out in the mornings, (pitch black with a 1/2 mile walk down a very scary track with ditch and hedge with farmers field one side, and no other horses out not a good idea to try and turn them both out together) so as theyre both hardy have stayed out as much as possible, but have had to stay in over the weekend and until tonight as i have a lake running through the field :rolleyes:

She's getting better at being in, but like yours is very mouthy & i think she is possibly teething too :)
 
Footprint said:
Just another tip with the rearing inhand. When mine first did this I chose to give her rope and let her run round me, big mistake as she then got overexcited and started bronking and double barrelling! So next time I took a different approach, I noted the signs, stopping suddenly head up high and nostrils flared, so I took control, kept the rope short and walked her firmly on. Soooo I had contact on the rope without tensly holding onto her head but also had the leverage in order to keep her head down, if they can't get their head up they can't rear! Then I made sure her attention remained on me, taking to her and leading her in different directions. Moving feet burns adrenaline so should calm down quicker than standing still, filly's issue was down to excitement though at seeing other horses so I was careful not to get on her too much I just needed to diffuse the situation. I haven't used a dually but be aware if the dually tightens youngster may rear to try to get away from the pressure rather than move forward if allowed to stop.... Just a thought, have you tried a rope halter?

When leading you can also stick your elbow out to maintain your space, that's a good one to prevent barginess!
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This is exactly what my filly does if you give her rope, all of what your saying makes complete sense i'll try here without the dually as well and see what she's like. I do use my elbow but sometimes its not quite sharp enough, i think i need to get more stern :)
 
Agree with as much as possible turnout, especially for a youngster. I personally never use a whip as punishment, in fact I very rarely even raise my voice. I don't see anything wrong with using a pressure halter so long as you know how to use it, use it correctly and have schooled your horse to understand what it means - if you just put one on a horse at a critical time, then it's not surprising if it doesn't work. Sounds like you may have done a bit of work in the school, moving the feet around, backing up etc, getting control of them - I'd make sure that this work is really slick and perhaps even do five mins of it before you start to lead anywhere. I'd make sure the rope is loose when she is behaving, don't hold it right up at her head (she has to take some responsibility) - if she rears or misbehaves only then will she meet the pressure.

W had a big 17.2hh who would plant when leading, puff himself up an extra hand with a "Bring it, Small Fry" look on his face, rear if you insisted he walked on and have huge temper tantrums (he was quite an extreme case who'd previously taken to rearing and flipping over when ridden hence having been turned away for four years before he came to us because he'd become quite dangerous). He'd absolutely rage if you became the least bit impatient with him, so you had to keep really calm or he'd escalate within seconds if not. I did lots of groundwork with him and if he planted, just gave him a consequence - if he didn't want to walk on, that was fine, I couldn't force him (I'm 5ft1 BTW) so I'd ask him to do a turn on the forehand, back up, another turn on the forehand, back up, then give him a few seconds to consider his consequences, then ask him to walk on again. He might walk 3 steps then plant, so back to turn on the forehand again (and the beauty of TOTF is that because the hindlegs are disengaged, they can't go up). I would keep completely calm, just be quiet and consistent and he very quickly made his own decision that it was easier just to walk on nicely.
 
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With the elbow I just let her run into it if you see what I mean without purposefully going out of my way to jab her so she is inflicting it on herself, I bit like with nipping ill block with my elbow, but backing her up if she tries to nip works the best. Annoying when she's trying to eat my coat whilst im wearing it when I'm picking her fronts out! She's taken to chewing the twine tied up as well so have to watch her like a hawk!

Also, if you try and keep her moving forwards she can't rear! The more you take control and prevent or at least minimise these episodes the less they will become, worse thing is letting it become a habit. All trial and error!
 
JillA said:
With a youngster she is testing boundaries - just ensure your boundaries are consistent, and keep teaching her. Most of those are self defence strategies, so what is she defending herself against? Something she doesn't like? Rough handling? Being taken away from her friends?
TEACH her, don't expect her to be pre programmed, and be a calm consistent leader that she needs. Not a bully, be firm but fair, and that will be a great investment for life. Each time she does it right, make sure she knows. Too many people ignore the good behaviour and punish the bad so the poor horse never actually knows what is wanted.
Click to expand...

All of that! And most of all this:-

and be a calm consistent leader
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Never go to see her in a hurry, allow time - patience and Percy Veer!
 
eatmyshorts said:
Agree with as much as possible turnout, especially for a youngster. I personally never use a whip as punishment, in fact I very rarely even raise my voice. I don't see anything wrong with using a pressure halter so long as you know how to use it, use it correctly and have schooled your horse to understand what it means - if you just put one on a horse at a critical time, then it's not surprising if it doesn't work. Sounds like you may have done a bit of work in the school, moving the feet around, backing up etc, getting control of them - I'd make sure that this work is really slick and perhaps even do five mins of it before you start to lead anywhere. I'd make sure the rope is loose when she is behaving, don't hold it right up at her head (she has to take some responsibility) - if she rears or misbehaves only then will she meet the pressure.

W had a big 17.2hh who would plant when leading, puff himself up an extra hand with a "Bring it, Small Fry" look on his face, rear if you insisted he walked on and have huge temper tantrums (he was quite an extreme case who'd previously taken to rearing and flipping over when ridden hence having been turned away for four years before he came to us because he'd become quite dangerous). He'd absolutely rage if you became the least bit impatient with him, so you had to keep really calm or he'd escalate within seconds if not. I did lots of groundwork with him and if he planted, just gave him a consequence - if he didn't want to walk on, that was fine, I couldn't force him (I'm 5ft1 BTW) so I'd ask him to do a turn on the forehand, back up, another turn on the forehand, back up, then give him a few seconds to consider his consequences, then ask him to walk on again. He might walk 3 steps then plant, so back to turn on the forehand again (and the beauty of TOTF is that because the hindlegs are disengaged, they can't go up). I would keep completely calm, just be quiet and consistent and he very quickly made his own decision that it was easier just to walk on nicely.
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Yes we have done quite a bit of work in the school and she does all i ask of her, she's an absolute star, she can do TOTF, so that is definately worth trying when she's having a plant, she doesn't like it either if you raise your voice to her. With the pressure halter its always loose unless she misbehaves, i.e. i walk with my hands down by my side relaxed with the rope loose like you have said, its only if she pulls away or rears etc., that it will put any pressure on. Maybe ive mislead people when i say i use a schooling whip on her, i have never hit her HARD with it, and tend to use it as an extension of my left arm for directional purposes, but if she has a "moment" i will give a sharp tap i suppose to me the same as a sharp nip off another horse?

BTW im only 5'1" as well, shes not as big as your lad, but she does a brilliant impression of a giraffe :rolleyes: which makes me feel VERY small!
 
Footprint said:
With the elbow I just let her run into it if you see what I mean without purposefully going out of my way to jab her so she is inflicting it on herself, I bit like with nipping ill block with my elbow, but backing her up if she tries to nip works the best. Annoying when she's trying to eat my coat whilst im wearing it when I'm picking her fronts out! She's taken to chewing the twine tied up as well so have to watch her like a hawk!

Also, if you try and keep her moving forwards she can't rear! The more you take control and prevent or at least minimise these episodes the less they will become, worse thing is letting it become a habit. All trial and error!
Click to expand...

Yes i understand what you mean about the elbow :) My girl has taken to chewing on her lead rope when tied, and is constantly trying to mouth everything.

Keep her moving then seems to be the answer. :)
 
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