Corrective shoeing

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Hope I'm posting this in the right place!
My vet came out to vaccinate my horse last week and said his feet need to be sorted asap.
He's got a long toe and very low heel. I suggested navicular but she said to get the hooves sorted before they can do xrays. (He's on/off lame in trot).
So, my question is what form of corrective shoeing should he have?
I've heard of heart bar and egg bar shoes as well as wedges.
I know the farrier would be best to ask but would like some knowledge of this before he comes out.
 
The trick in these situations is to look at the root cause of the problem. Rather than trying to make the feet look better by piling on scaffolding (wedge shoes to make the feet look more upright, bar shoes to make it look like the frog is being engaged) I would suggest you instead grow healthy feet on your horse.

Diet and stimulation will grow healthy feet - check out the Rockley Farm blog for past and ongoing examples.

Wedge shoes cause the horse to land toe first (even if it looks like the horse is landing heel first, it can't due to the angle of the shoe). Check out Dr Rooney's research on the effect of a toe first landing and it's role in causing navicular.

Bar shoes prevent the back of the foot from functioning correctly by removing any contact with the ground and any possibility of stimulation - this leads to weakening of the shock absorbing structures in the back of the hoof that are vital for a heel first landing.

An appropriate diet is the first step to healthy hooves, followed by stimulation. Hooves have evolved to thrive on low sugar and starch, high fibre and miles and miles of work over all terrains.
 
I don't know how long you have been using the same farrier, but really your farrier should be shoeing your horse correctly to start with. How long has the 'long toe' been going on? Could you not ask the vet their opinion on the standard of shoeing and go from there with a recommended farrier? That would be my opinion.
 
Usually 'remedial' or 'corrective' shoeing would be heart bars with/without wedges. How successful this is long term is debatable. You are basically patching together an unhealthy hoof :(. No foot. No horse.

Grow a better hoof ;). I can promise you, your horse will be constantly trying to do this but is stuck by the shoes.

What I suggest would be to review the diet to make sure it's appropriate for the horse and remove the shoes for the winter.

Done properly, you can still ride.

Then review come spring whether you need to shoe for the season or not.

Then make sure you include an annual break from shoes as part of your routine.

Before

Rednsfaug.jpg


A few week's after

rednsfnov.jpg
 
Can't quote on my phone but thanks for all the advice. I'd love him to be barefoot but he's so flat footed and really needs heel support.
I'll speak to the farrier on saturday but i'm thinking maybe a summer of corrective shoeing (which ever farrier thinks is best but avoid heart bars?) while feeding a barefoot diet of low sugar and high fibre in prepartion of taking shoes off october time? Does this sound a good plan?
If so, can anyone suggest a diet?
Currently he's on honeychop chaff, pony nuts, weightgain and sugabeet. Ridden twice a week at the moment but will increase to 5 days a week over summer.
 
timiton said:
Currently he's on honeychop chaff, pony nuts, weightgain and sugabeet.
Click to expand...

And that would be why he is 'flat footed' :o

I'll pm you some information to look at - ignore what doesn't apply to you :)

What you need to understand with the 'corrective' shoes is that you are trying to 'support' the heel. But popping a cushion (or in this case, metal) under the heel doesn't make up for the loss of tissue where it needs to be.

In response to a lack of frog pressure, the heels run forwards and underneath the horse in a desperate attempt for the frog to find the floor. The hoof can't find the floor past the metal, so the whole hoof gets distorted along the way.

Don't forget about the joints, tendons and ligaments that are attached to the distorted hooves.

Heart bars may bring some relief for a while, but they won't fix the problem of building up the frog again.
In essence the 'corrective' shoes are trying to do the exact same thing that the floor would do if you were to take the shoes off. The floor is much cheaper though :D

That's my two cents anyway.

I found a better couple of pics.

Before

underrunhoof_zps2609a3b5.jpg


After

underrunhoofafter_zpsbe3b05cc.jpg
 
Op, you posted about your boys long feet well over a week ago, did you not get a new farrier and have him come out already?! I'm shocked if you haven't, especially given the state of the feet in those pics you posted :(. Why has it taken so long? Are you now sticking with the same farrier and just waiting until he comes out? X

Edited to say that in your over rugging thread you stated that the vet and the farrier were coming out on the 9th, five days on and it seems that the farrie has not been out from the gist of this post and you initially posted the pics of your horses feet on the 5th. Op this is crazy, many experienced people told you on that thread that this was an urgent case :(
 
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Thanks very much Oberon for the information - have skimmed over it and all seems very helpful, will read properly when I have a moment :)
Also, that before photo is similar to how mine is now :(
Queenbee - yard farrier came out on the 9th. He doesn't do corrective shoeing so he just trimmed them (not enough) and put on standard shoes. A different farrier will be out on saturday who does corrective shoeing. It was the earliest i could arrange it for :(
 
timiton said:
Thanks very much Oberon for the information - have skimmed over it and all seems very helpful, will read properly when I have a moment :)
Also, that before photo is similar to how mine is now :(
Queenbee - yard farrier came out on the 9th. He doesn't do corrective shoeing so he just trimmed them (not enough) and put on standard shoes. A different farrier will be out on saturday who does corrective shoeing. It was the earliest i could arrange it for :(
Click to expand...

What Oberon says makes sense, take as much from her post as you can.

Your horse does obviously need something doing with his feet, the photos were dreadful, mainly due to lack of proper farriery but also due to being left so long between trims, if you are going to make a difference the work will need to be done in stages with trims and refits probably every 4-5 weeks, if left any longer he will continue to grow long toes and the heels will never improve.

Remedial farriers are not magicians, it is a combination of regular treatment,

correct diet and exercise that will make the changes possible.

Good luck with him and dont let the YO influence you, if in doubt this forum will give you better advice from what you have said.
 
Imo it's sick hooves which need a break from shoeing the most. Flat feet are, as Oberon said, a product of diet and also lack of stimulation.

If you think of how the horse's foot has evolved - for millions of years without shoes, you can start to see why shoeing them can cause problems. Hooves have evolved to grow and maintain themselves through a system of pressure and release; as the horse's hoof hits the ground it expands under load, drawing blood down into the foot. As the horse moves off and lifts its hoof, the hoof is released from pressure and it contracts, pumping blood back up the horse's leg.

When you apply a shoe, particularly a bar shoe, the hoof is in the contraction stage (this is unavoidable - the farrier has to pick up the hoof to apply the shoe, and when the hoof is lifted from the ground it contracts). The hoof is nailed to the shoe, so that when the hoof then hits the ground when the horse is moving, the expansion is greatly reduced, and the flow of blood impinged. Furthermore, the shoe (specifically bar shoes, now) stays nailed to the hoof as the horse moves, which to some extent applies constant pressure. Thus the pressure and release system, which the horse's hoof has evolved to require, is compromised. Constant pressure causes wasting, which is why frogs and heels are often seen to shrivel in shod horses.

A healthy hoof can often cope with being shod, particularly if given regular breaks. An unhealthy hoof, however, is locked in a cycle in which it is unlikely to become healthier, and will often degenerate.

That's how I look at it, anyway :).
 
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Wow - I hadn't seen the pics but those are some seriously sick feet heading for a massive breakdown - we're talking more than just the feet here :(

You may find Faracat's story helpful.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=549121&highlight=hooves

Faracat's mare is a happy ending but that is a rareity. For reasons I can't go into on the public forum, I'm less hopeful for most other horses with hooves so sick :(.

With the OP's horse I would be seeking out a second opinion from a really good farrier/trimmer, the horse is going to need specialist help :eek:. Hooves don't get into that state by accident and ignorance or apathy must be at play with the current farrier. I know that's farrier bashing but there's no excuse for those hooves :(.

It's not a case of just chopping off the extra hoof - there's a long road of rehab needed here :(.
 
I know, Oberon I am amazed you missed OP's first post on this... not like you to miss a 'broken feet' post:p

OP I am really glad that at least a farrier has been out and that you have a new chap coming out too. Out of interest, were you there when the original farrier trimmed your horse on the 9th? Did you get to ask him a few questions about the feet and his 'explanation' for them being in that condition? If I recall, you haven't had this horse for that long, was it the same person who shod him before you got him? Did the horse have shoes on prior to you getting him and do you know what his diet was?

It is going to take a lot of time and dedication, that is for sure, but atleast you are aware of it and are taking active steps to remedy the situation. I really hope you do manage to move yards... your YO is shocking in her attitude on this :mad: How did it go with the visit to another yard down the road from you? Any joy?
 
timiton said:
Thanks very much Oberon for the information - have skimmed over it and all seems very helpful, will read properly when I have a moment :)
Also, that before photo is similar to how mine is now :(
Queenbee - yard farrier came out on the 9th. He doesn't do corrective shoeing so he just trimmed them (not enough) and put on standard shoes. A different farrier will be out on saturday who does corrective shoeing. It was the earliest i could arrange it for :(
Click to expand...


I hope you dont mind but Im going to post a pic for ease of reference... (to the other posters, this was 7 weeks after shoeing and posted on the fifth so before the farrier visited on the 9th)

photo10_zps268eedef.jpg


Remember that when you say 'not enough' dont forget that your horses feet, will be greatly distorted inside and out, it is simply not possible for any farrier to make drastic changes to the hoof in one session... it would cripple the horse with pain. Changes must be made over a long period of time... little and often, with regards to trims, and ofcourse a tailored plan for diet and exercise to support this x Im really nowhere near the best person to advise on this but CPtrayes, Oberon and the likes, they really do know what they are talking about on matters like these x

It would be interesting if you could post a 'now' picture since the farrier came out and again another following the next visit.
 
Queenbee said:
I know, Oberon I am amazed you missed OP's first post on this... not like you to miss a 'broken feet' post:p
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I work full time and usually just respond to pms now where posters actively want advice re hooves/diet....otherwise I am pretty much wasting my time.

......but sometimes I can't help myself :o.
 
Yikes! OP you need to do something about those feet!

And YIKES at poor faracat's mare. I had no idea she'd been battling with all that.
 
Oberon said:
I work full time and usually just respond to pms now where posters actively want advice re hooves/diet....otherwise I am pretty much wasting my time.

......but sometimes I can't help myself :o.
Click to expand...
lol! I feel quite sure the doctor can prescribe pills and counselling for your foot fettish:p
 
I was pondering these horses' feet today and wondering whether the attending vet would/would ever subsequently report the farrier to the FRC?
 
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