Could anyone offer advice on a loan agreement please?

[Louisejane]

Hi, I'm a bit new to this but am desperately seeking some advice.

I am not a rider but my young daughter has been for the last two years and after loaning one of the riding school ponies for six months we decided to bite the bullet and found a pony on loan with a view to buy.

The long and short of it is, the pony hasn't worked out. She was sold as "good in the school" "an ideal childs or mother/daughter share". We trialled her but only on hack and she was perfect.

We had a loan agreement in place for six months and during those six months I would pay the balance of the pony so that I would then own her at the end of the six months.

She came to us just over a week ago after I paid quite a hefty deposit, (my fault I know). Basically the pony hates the school and fights all the way. She really can only be ridden my a competent adult and is in no way a childs pony or good in the school. So, I am trying to return her.

Our loan agreement states that "A trial period of one month is agreed, during which time, the horse may be returned at the borrowers expense if judged to be unsuitable". Which she is.

I asked the owner last week about arranging to return the horse this weekend and she has refused to take her back until next weekend at the earliest and wants time to sort out a new buyer/home first.

My problem is that if I keep the horse after this weekend I am liable for the whole of January in livery fee's as well as the cost for transport back to the owner which isn't cheap!

Can anyone advise where I stand please? I have offered to return her this weekend at my expense but she has declined. I did day that I would keep the horse until next weekend but I would ask her for the livery fee's.

This is driving me mad as the owner is lovely and I know she hasn't intentionally mis-sold the horse but we have been mis-sold the horse.

 

[Jake10]

It may take the horse longer than a week to settle in a new yard. Could your daughter have a couple of lessons on the new horse to see if she can work through the problem?

 

[Louisejane]

I wish that were the case. Our instructor won't even let her get on the horse in the arena. She's been ridden every day by an adult to see if its just a new home but its not. We've sought professional advice and she needs reschooling, back to basics

Its such a pity as the horse is great on the ground, she's lovely to be around and hacks great she just won't school.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Well..... TBH I think the seller is being very fair in giving you a good trial period - you won't get many people who will let out a pony on trial these days, plus they've given you a good long period during which the pony may be returned to them if things don't work out. Frankly I feel they are being more than reasonable.

However, this doesn't help your situation with regard to you having to pay for the livery fees for the month of January; but I think you might have to accept that. Maybe you could negotiate with your yard owner??? Most YO's would be reasonable and would understand the situation??? (although I realise some may not!). I can understand where the seller is coming from as she'd obviously hoped the pony would be OK for your daughter, now she's been informed its not, and suddenly she's got to find room for it back in her yard again!!! Not easy at this time of year when grazing/hay/feed etc is scarce (and expensive!). So I would suggest that the seller isn't trying to be difficult - and she isn't refusing blankly to have the pony back is she.

You obviously have no "horsey" experience; and your daughter sounds like a novice. I don't know what set-up there is at your yard, but TBH, and please don't think I'm sounding patronising when I say this coz everyone has to start somewhere, but it sounds like the situation where you were loaning from the riding school was a good set-up, it obviously worked out and you had the reassurance of knowing there was always skilled help and instruction available.

Now, it sounds like you've chosen to "go it alone" a bit; and OK so wisely you decided to have a trial/loan-view-to-buy arrangement (which you were very lucky to have as like I say people are NOT willing to do it normally). Perhaps (being brutally honest here, sorry!) it would be better, for now, to jettison the idea of your daughter "having her own pony" and continue to loan from the riding stables, like you did before???

As you've found, it takes time for a pony to settle into a new home with a different rider, and often ponies who've been in a riding stables in particular (I think you said yours had) have had a lot of work plus been in a highly structured environment, and being in a home where this isn't the case they will often exhibit different behaviour to how they were in the riding school. And it does take time for a partnership to build up - a week is nothing! So perhaps you are being premature?

But if you sense that the thing won't work out, it just might be you have to pay up and look sweet, and return the pony when you can; and think seriously about whether your daughter owning her own pony is the right way forward as TBH I think both you and her might be best to continue the loan set-up from the riding school like you did before; i.e. if it aint broke don't fix it!

 

[Jazzy B]

"Our loan agreement states that "A trial period of one month is agreed, during which time, the horse may be returned at the borrowers expense if judged to be unsuitable". Which she is.

I'm sorry, but I think if this is what your contract states as above, then you should be able to return the pony at your own expense! Not sure why an owner would want to leave their horse in an unsuitable home. My pony went on loan I was very honest unfortunately they weren't about their riding abilities and when they called me to tell me how horrendous my pony was I told them to bring her back the next day.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Our loan agreement states that "A trial period of one month is agreed, during which time, the horse may be returned at the borrowers expense if judged to be unsuitable". Which she is.

I asked the owner last week about arranging to return the horse this weekend and she has refused to take her back until next weekend at the earliest and wants time to sort out a new buyer/home first.

Sorry have just re-read your original post OP.

So you have a "trial period of one month" - and I gather one week of that has now passed; so basically three weeks left.

Yes, whilst you've been given a fair trial, I think that IF the pony's unsuitable (which obviously is) then OK so whilst it maybe a reason to not want it back coz she needs to find another buyer, am not totally convinced by this!!! Having thought about it, it might be just an excuse and she's just waiting for your daughter to get all soppy about the pony and then won't want to part with it. I remember when I was a child there was a dealer which did this to people; basically dumped unsuitable animals with families where there was a child and child would (predictably) get all fond of it and basically get landed. So what I'm saying is be careful!

Personally, IF you've got a contract saying the above: then I'd get transport organised PDQ and get the pony back to her yard! Otherwise you're just paying out livery on something you don't want! And of course she's happy coz hasn't got the expense of paying money for the upkeep of the pony!

Otherwise the thing will drag on; and the inevitable will happen and your daughter will get fond of it ......... which is maybe what the seller is wanting??? Sorry, but I've got a very suspicious mind with things like this.

 

[Fantasy_World]

Actually Mijodsr2BlinkinTite I think you made more sense on your first post with which I wholeheartedly agreed.
One week is too short a time to assess a pony or horse and allow it to settle. TBH the OP would have been better off having an arrangement of loan with a view to buy and the pony kept with the owner for the first month or so and in doing so paid their livery fee to do so. That way the pony would have been situated at a place which it felt comfortable in. If things hadn't worked out then the pony would not have the upset of moving and moving back again so quickly. Also the OP and her daughter would have been saved a lot of hassle.
I do think that going back to the riding school situation is perhaps the best move because the way the OP comes across in her post she lacks the knowledge to have a pony soley in her charge. Especially when it is mentioned that an instructor is being used and it is their opinion about the pony. Is it just that, is the OP being swayed by the views of others.
I have seen this first hand when newbies are like proverbial sponges soaking everything up even from people who don't lack knowledge or what I would call 'proper' skills around horses and then matters go pear shaped. Yes we all have to start somewhere that I agree. I also admit that I have made mistakes along the way as no one is perfect, however there is no way on earth I would given any horses of mine just one week to assess them after they came to me.
Now if the owner is on a yard herself, what if there are now no stables vacant for the pony to come back to and a grass livery arrangement can't be sorted?
Perhaps she was hoping it would all work out. Perhaps the OP and her daughter seemed too convincing when they tried out the pony.
Has the pony had checks done recently, for teeth and back?
Has any tack changed since the OP has had the pony in her care?
Is the pony being given any different feed to what it has been fed, or is on haylage instead of hay for example?
These are all physical factors that could be affecting the pony's performance.
Then of course you have the environmental effects of being on a new yard, new routine, new smells, different field mates etc etc
If the pony was sold as good in the school etc then really the OP should have tried the pony in that situation before agreeing to take it on.
Depending on age and other issues there could be a valid reason for the pony not enjoying being schooled, see above

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Well said "Fantasy" - yup agree totally.

 

[mulledwhine]

Sosoeey to hear this, no advice I am afraid

We got a pony on loan, who wax perfect, daughter rode him around the village on her own, jumped etc

He is now much loved but has found his feet and is now a little rocket ( he was well loved in his last home, I suspect the grass here is too rich )

A week is not a long time, all I can suggest is that YOU make a relationship with pony, that is what I did, when I say ' don't you dare' he listens and we are now doing ok!!

Can't trust him not to tank off, but since we reached an understanding, things are going much smoother xx

Good luck, and give him time

 

[Louisejane]

Thanks for all your replies, they are much appreciated.

Yes I am a little green when it comes to horses which is why we chose to keep a horse on livery at our busy riding school/livery yard as the advice and help available is second to none.

We were unable to trial the horse in a arena situation as the seller didn't have one available and was unwilling to let us try first so naively I took her word for it. We spent a lot of time with the horse on the yard, she is a lovely horse in every other aspect. She hacked out great and didn't "bomb off" she was a pleasure to groom and generally be around. It was only when we got her in an arena that the problem made itself known.

Yes she probably will get better with time and work and retraining but we didn't want a pony that needed this, we were sold a pony that was an ideal childs pony who worked great in the school and she isn't. Otherwise I could have gone for a much cheaper option and put the work in myself but as I said, I lack the experience.

There have been no changes at all other than environment. A friend of ours who has a horse on livery where we are actually trialled her about a year ago when the owner was first thinking of selling and they said no because she was too slow and not enough for her, (14 years old) so there has been a big change between now and then.

I have arranged to return her today so my original problem has now been solved and we are sorry to see her go as she is a lovely pony to be around. The owner still has the stable available where she was before.

I guess I have to put it down to a lesson learnt. To be honest and without sounding too rude, I was not looking for advice on whether or not I am suitable to be a horse owner, we have loaned a riding school horse for some time now and my daughter is ready to move on and have her own, the situation isnt always great as he is ridden a lot and its not always possible to ride him, we've loaned over winter too as I wanted to be sure that I could committ to being an owner and we've decided (with advice and help) that we are ready for this committment. I was looking for advice on where I stood with regards to my loan agreement. I think my problem is that I always assume the best in people and situations and sadly this simply isn't always the case.

Thanks again for the replies

 

[SusieT]

I dont see why someone having an unsuitable horse sold to them becomes unsuitable to become a horse owner? Most people get unsuitable first ponies, it's neary a rite of passage in the horseworld with the amount of people willing to sell dodgy animals.
They will know next time to try it fully in the school, outside teh school etc. FWIW I don't buy into the *******s about ponies needing months to settle unless they are young or green. A schoolmaster or experienced horse should be used to moving around and if there is any relapse, it should be later when they have realised routines have changed rather than in the early stages-otherwise how on earth are they expected to behave at competitions? Quiet horses don't become difficult overnight.