Could devil's claw 'work' better than Danilon?

[Orchardbeck]

I have been giving my mare devil's claw as a maintenance dose for around a year, but recently decided to try her on danilon. We've done the loading phase, and are now on one per day.

My mare is 22 and suffers from suspected spavins - we had fetlock xrays and scans done 3 yrs ago which were clear but there is still some mobility issue so that's how we're treating it.

Basically, she is really sore in her shoulders, neck, girth area - so much so that she is biting me if I touch or brush her there, and put rugs on.

My mare was out 24-7 but has started coming in at nights to save the field from the bad weather - we were hacking out fine before but now she is napping badly, and will hardly leave the stable when walking out in hand - noticable only after starting the danilon. Yesterday it was as if she had laminitis again, but there were no pulses.

We have had saddle fit issues which could also be the cause of this, these are under investigation, but it is also happening if I am bareback - all ridden work has stopped until she is ok in hand.

But surely if she is putting her weight on to her front end to relieve the back, the danilon should ease any pain in the hocks?

Or could the devils claw have been more effective for her? I've also noticed her droppings are looser on danilon.

Apologies for the essay, i'm just worried about her. I think a visit from a chiro or something may be on the cards.

 

[xxKatxx]

weirdly enough, i thought the same with my mare, who had always seemed a bit stiff, but had always been that way (worked in a riding school). After i bought her, an instructor suggested that i try devils claw, and so she went on devils claw a couple of years back, and we noticed a massive improvement in her stiffness. About a year later, she seemed to go downhill slightly, so called the vet, who suspected hock arthritis, and he prescribed her danilon and to take her off the devils claw, as its effect would be outweighed by the danilon (pony was 19 at the time, so vet didn't particularly want to do lots of investigations)
However, i noticed virtually no difference with the danilon, and put pony on danilon with devils claw, and pony became slightly better, so I came to the conclusion that the devils claw at least acts in a different way to the danilon, as it really did seem to make a difference to her

 

[be positive]

The problems you are now having, whether or not the devils claw was better, are down to her trying to cope with constant discomfort from the spavins, they will adjust how they move to compensate, pulling along rather than pushing.
The saddle fit issue is also a sign, they are all linked, regular physio will help and in my view be essential if you are going to get back riding her, she will otherwise continue to be stiff, change shape etc, so saddle becomes a problem again, with the right treatment and ongoing rehab from you she should be able to continue in work but it is a constant balancing act to keep everything right.

 

[LynH]

I found that my 21yr old TB is sound on Buteless (not devils claw but still a bute alternative) but not sound on Danilon. She has had abscesses on and off all summer so been out of work and quite stiff and sore. The Buteless really helped when Danilon didn't.

 

[chestnut cob]

At her age I'd just be playing around with various pain killers, not natural remedies. Mine gets on best with Danilon (he has spavins and ringbone). You could try upping the amount of Danilon - how big is she and how many sachets are you giving? Mine is only in light work now so he's only getting 1 sachet but when he's in harder work he gets two (he's 17hh). You could also try Metacam or proper bute.

 

[kym]

Each horse is different and what works for one wont always work for another, just like us humans. I tried buteless, devils claw etc for my boy when the vet wanted him on longterm danolin. None of it worked, it made no difference to him at all and at the age of 26 I want him to be comfortable.

Danolin works wonders for him and most of the time he can cope with 1/2 a sachet a day. In winter it does up to 1 a day and when he is having a bad time then he has 2 a day.

All I can say is try everything until you find what works for you

 

[Orchardbeck]

Kat, thanks for sharing that, it does make you wonder, doesn't it? Lyn H - again, its funny. Is it ok to give both devils claw and Bute/danilon, or is that liver overload?

Be positive - that's what i've noticed - in the summer with a change of saddle she was great, better than she had been in years, but a few weeks later she started shuffling, and planting, so had saddler out again.. And on and on it went. I think a Physio visit would really help. She's also going to be moving in to a bigger stable once my hubby has built it so that may also help.

Chestnut cob - that's really the reason why I've started on the drug route - I totally agree with you. Its just these observations that made me ask this question. She's 14hh, so a sachet should be a decent dose for her.

Thanks Kym, its a worrying time, I just feel like time is running out with her, and my having children means I can't spend as much time with her as I used to.

Incidentally, I led her out in hand this morning and she was ok, not planting or napping. She even bucked on the way back cos the stupid farm dogs decided to come with us and ran up behind her, so she was perhaps feeling a little brighter.

I think i'll try a Physio, and persevere with the danilon and see how we get on - forget saddle fitting for the time being...

 

[chestnut cob]

If you know for sure it's hock arthritis, have you spoken to your vet about steroid injections? They work wonders on my creaky horse.

 

[poiuytrewq]

If you know for sure it's hock arthritis, have you spoken to your vet about steroid injections? They work wonders on my creaky horse.

Mine too.
He used to have them every 6 months then they would wear off but last time just after having his joint injected (its his fetlock) i started using Buteless form Equine America and *touch wood* its been a year and 3 months since his last cortisone jabs ;-D.
Id recommend them highly

 

[Orchardbeck]

Chestnut cob and poi, how were your horses diagnosed - by x ray? Mine has not been officially diagnosed what with going through the x ray and scans of her fetlocks (it initially looks as though the flexion problem is there, and she does have windgalls both sides) but scans showed nothing. It has just been assumed by the vet and i as a result that it is in her hocks, plus my farrier also gave that as his opinion - he was looking for navicular.

What kind of price are you looking at for injections? Is that 'tildren'?

 

[chestnut cob]

Diagnosed by x-rays. No, not Tildren although my horse has had Tildren in the past. It's just corticosteroid injections straight into the joint. Mine has had them 3 or 4 times. Costs about £150 now I'm not insured but x-rays were quite pricey. I believe you will need x-rays so the vet knows where to inject.

 

[mytwofriends]

My old boy has hock spavins and arthritis in his coffin joints and had become pretty doddery. He's had various expensive treatments over the last couple of years, but I can quite honestly say he's happiest and most sound on devil's claw. I use the dried root, as it's cheaper than the liquid. I'd definitely give it a go.

 

[Orchardbeck]

Thanks again chestnut cob, very helpful. I imagine they will definitely need xrays to do that. Probably the next step.

Mytwo - I wonder if it worth putting her on devils claw as well as drugs? Interesting!

 

[misterjinglejay]

I've never used it with my old retired lad, but I did use devils claw with great success on my old arthritic bitch and it was fab.
I got it from Holland and Barratt and started her on 1 tablet once a day; it started working really quickly, with no side effects (unlike the Metacam that she was on).
In my opinion it gave her a few more years of pain free bouncing.

 

[indie999]

I tried devils claw on my good doer and didnt realise it was loaded with sugar (no wonder he liked it) Waste of money and I think it should be taken off the shelves it does not work. I spoke to others and they laughed and agreed. I would speak to your vet. I put on Bute and this worked for 9 months. One a day increased and it didnt really continue etc. I didnt want to start injections etc due to a long standing arthritic issues etc...hope you find something to ease.