Could going barefoot have caused more problems?

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Ilovefoals

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Bit of the history.

4yr old RID gelding bought in may last year. Over summer he was in and out of work with various issues which I'm convinced was down to his feet. They didn't look terrible at all but seemed to grow so fast that his toe quickly got too long and his heels looked pretty low. Then he went hopping lame which turned out to be a huge abcess. His foot (right fore) was xrayed to identify the abcess as it was taking so long to drain we got a bit worried it might have been something else. He was off for 8 weeks and though improved a lot, was still unlevel on turns etc. Re xray showed abcess was gone but foot balance had altered probably due to walking on the outside of his hoof for so long. At this point he was heel first landing no problem.

Discussed with farrier and vet and decided to take off his shoes and trim every 5 weeks to stop them getting too long. Also trim to encourage him to walk correctly again and not on the outside wall. Back into work for a few weeks before the bad weather came accompanied by a growth spurt so decided to leave him off.#

Decided to bring him back into work yesterday after 2 months off (3 without shoes) and he looks awful. He's walking on tip toes like he's a ballerina!!! Plus he's skimming the surface of the school with every stride with that bluddy right fore! Could taking his shoes off have done this to him? I've just rung the vet as I'm so fed up and booked to take him in on Monday so she can see him and take some more xrays but I'm really low about it :(

Any thoughts?

Oh, diet wise he's on a hoof supplement, fast fibre and a cup of linseed twice a day plus Suppleaze Gold.
 
amandaco2 said:
With this weather I bet he has thrushy feet.
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I agree op that's where I would start check and treat for thrush whether you think you can see it or not I called the vet out last summer to a horse I was sure was starting with lami and it was thrush red face here.
 
You could be right. They were very spongy and actually perhaps that front right did niff a bit when I picked it out come to think of it. I'll head out and spray them right now. Thanks. Hopefully that's it.
 
Could going barefoot have caused more problems?

NO.

The problem is with unhealthy hooves and this sounds to have been an issue pre dating going barefoot.

Shod or bare, healthy hooves are the ultimate goal. The problem is not a lot of people (and I include professionals in this) would know what a truly healthy hoof looks like.....

In the absence of any laminitis, I would suspect the frog is the primary issue at present.
 
Taking off the shoes is not enough. My current rehab has had no shoes on for more than a year, rested in a paddock and was still unsound, as he had been on and off, more on than off, for the three years before that as well.

He needed the right work to bring him sound, which he now is.

He needs you to get rid of whatever is making his frogs/heels sore, and thrush is the no. 1 culprit, then he needs steady walking work on flat hard surfaces like tarmac, in hand if necessary until he builds up the back of his feet properly.
 
Agree with Oberon

Also just because the vet and farrier have decided trimming every 5 weeks is good for your horse, doesnt mean your horse agrees ;) It could well be too often and contributing to making him sore.

Id ask for a consultation with a qualified UKNHCP trimmer and see what they think :)
 
Thrush - hence req for pics ditto trim agree 5 weeks may be in appropriate but warning bells rang when OP described measures taken to change how horse walked.
 
My horse had her shoes of 3 or so months ago she had been checked by a well known farrier/trimmer and hasn't needed anything taken off yet or her feet being touched, but I have been walking her on roads however the first time she went in a school she felt as u described. I thought of it as her getting the feeling back in her feet and reacting accordingly!

I'm so pleased I took her barefoot!
 
"Decided to bring him back into work yesterday after 2 months off (3 without shoes) and he looks awful. He's walking on tip toes like he's a ballerina!!! Plus he's skimming the surface of the school with every stride with that bluddy right fore! Could taking his shoes off have done this to him? I've just rung the vet as I'm so fed up and booked to take him in on Monday so she can see him and take some more xrays but I'm really low about it"

Where did I say he was perfect yesterday? And yes, his heels were spongy yesterday and today. I don't believe I said anywhere that they were fine yesterday.

Hopefully now he's back in work the transition to healthy feet will continue. He was having such a growth spurt that I thought best to leave him off for a couple of months, especially with the snow etc. Hoping to crack on now.
 
Its interesting that when you mention 'diet' you don't mention your forage. I presume he has grass (maybe at this time of year if your lucky!!) and hay or haylage. What you have described is exactly what happens to my mare if I feed haylage (unless it's very dry) or hay that has too much sugar in it. So not only do you need to look at treating for thrush (I find milton the way forward) but you also need to take into consideration his forage source. I'm sure you will get him grand with a little tweaking!

On a side note, how is he bred? I'm an ID fan - pictures please!!!
 
LucyPriory said:
Thrush - hence req for pics ditto trim agree 5 weeks may be in appropriate but warning bells rang when OP described measures taken to change how horse walked.
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He was walking on the outside edge of his foot which the vet thought had been caused by the pain the abcess was causing. The vet asked the farrier to trim the inside edge so he has to walk on the whole of his foot again. That was 3 months ago now and he was sound in november. His feet seem to grow so fast which is why the 5 wkly trim. Otherwise his toes get really long (bare in mind he hasn't been being worked so hopefully we can lengthen the time between trims when he is).
 
There is very little grass at the mo and it's very coarse and not at all rich. He is on haylage which is pretty dry as I just couldn't source decent hay anywhere. It's like hens teeth round here and the stuff I did get was so dusty I couldn't feed it :(

He's by Kensons Aragorn out of a mare by King Elvis. I got him from Janet George.

Photobucket is being really stupid right now but I'll try to upload pics later :)
 
Ilovefoals said:
There is very little grass at the mo and it's very coarse and not at all rich. He is on haylage which is pretty dry as I just couldn't source decent hay anywhere. It's like hens teeth round here and the stuff I did get was so dusty I couldn't feed it :(

He's by Kensons Aragorn out of a mare by King Elvis. I got him from Janet George.

Photobucket is being really stupid right now but I'll try to upload pics later :)
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That'll be George then!! :-)
 
well if he wasnt sound yesterday then why pick today to bring him back into work? gosh so aggressive. my grass hasnt stopped growing this winter though has slowed down a little with the frost in dec. horses are back looking and grazing so it is growing. grass grows above 6 deg.! of which we hqve had plenty!
 
I'm not being aggressive at all and for your information, when I say bring him back into work, I put his bridle on and a long rope and took him in the arena to do some groundwork which is also what I did yesterday. I didn't even lunge him but I could see he was walking strangely. I did it today to see if he was any different from yesterday.

cm2581 Yes it's George. You are???
 
Ilovefoals said:
I'm not being aggressive at all and for your information, when I say bring him back into work, I put his bridle on and a long rope and took him in the arena to do some groundwork which is also what I did yesterday. I didn't even lunge him but I could see he was walking strangely. I did it today to see if he was any different from yesterday.

cm2581 Yes it's George. You are???
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I just follow Janets breeding quite closely now! I remember George from her facebook page and her website. He's lovely!! :-)
 
Ilovefoals said:
He was walking on the outside edge of his foot which the vet thought had been caused by the pain the abcess was causing. The vet asked the farrier to trim the inside edge so he has to walk on the whole of his foot again. That was 3 months ago now and he was sound in november. His feet seem to grow so fast which is why the 5 wkly trim. Otherwise his toes get really long (bare in mind he hasn't been being worked so hopefully we can lengthen the time between trims when he is).
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If the vet was wrong, and this is his natural way of walking, as it is with very many horses, then he has prescribed one of the quickest and easiest ways to lame a barefoot horse with internal foot balance issues.

And even if he is right then my experience is that once the abscess pain was gone the horse would have put the foot right for himself.

If your farrier is also taking off toe when he still has weak heels, this may well explain why he now has pain in the back of his frogs. They may have been asked to take too much load too soon.

What I would do with him if he was mine is put way the rasp and do plenty of walking on roads so that he trims his own feet into balance. Eventually, he should make himself a foot which lands square across the back, but he can't do this if people keep taking off bits that he is trying to grow.


When you give us photos can we please also have one front on of both front legs and the feet, so that we can see if he is actually straight in the front legs? The side-landing is normally a result of legs that are not straight in the first place. And if that's the case, your farrier cannot force a straight foot onto the end of a bent leg and expect the horse to stay sound.

..
 
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Have a look at some of the photos on the Rockley Farm website. Several of those horses has feet that don't "look" pretty, but the horse is sound and happy on them. Their feet alter shape a lot when the shoes come off, as he is trying to grow a foot that will best support the horse above.
 
100% agree with what Lucy and CPTrayes have been telling you

deal with any thrush so the back of the foot is comfortable enough to land on - and leave the feet alone for a couple of cycles - more barefoot horses are held back by well intentioned but inappropriate trims than are helped by them.

5 weeks is in my opinion far too close, and if he is putting out a bit of wall maybe he needs that wall - it's a golden rule in trimming that if you take something away and it is replaced quickly, sit down on a bucket and think real hard about what that was doing for the horse in the first place.

Often when you are casting around for the answer to the question "what should I do?" an equally good question is "what am I doing that I should try not doing for a while?"

Often that gives you the answer.
 
Thanks guys. Some really great advice there which makes a lot of sense! I will get some photos tomorrow morning and post them for you. I'll also take a video of how he is walking so you can give me your opinions. I was worried about him growing his toes too long as it seems to make his foot go really flat looking. It made me worry about the strain on the back of his legs but perhaps that's how they are meant to be for him. I will get him out on the roads asap cptrayes. I have sprayed his frogs and heels tonight and put on some field paste and will continue with this until the wet ground has cleared up. Many thanks.
 
Oh, and how would I go about finding a barefoot trimmer? Is there somewhere they are registered or I could find details for whose in my area?
 
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