could it be ulcers?

[LMR]

Looking for some advice. I have a 14 year old gelding with EMS which we have under control.

He has always been girthy. He kicks out when girth is been done up and is grumpy with his rugs being put on/off. These are the only symptoms he has apart from being ribby but this was put down to EMS.

Have mentioned ulcers ro vet but he doesn't think so as girthy is the only.symptom he has. He told me not to worry but I just feel like it's getting worse lately.

He is not insured as after EMS claim and other issues it was 2400 for the year so that was a big No!!

So am I worrying for no reason or is it worth investigating? Maybe trialling on a supplement? He has had his saddle,back etc checked. Teeth are due in jan.

 

[JillA]

Check him against this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr05hMmLCY4 As someone has pointed out to me recently there are all sorts of body issues which could give these reactions but IME the one over the loins is unlikely to be anything other than gastric ulcers or saddle issues. Given your suspicions it is worth looking at, and if you still suspect ulcers, there are treatments which don't rely on a prescription - line the digestive tract with Slippery Elm, or coconut oil, boost the gut bacteria with yeassac, ensure his system is never empty and reduce any sugars in his diet as well as making it high in fibre- I posted a link to a really good paper on that a day or two ago, worth looking at.
And reduce any stress - if you can manage to provide him with field rest at this time of year that is the best way to allow them to heal.

 

[lynsey1808]

Just watched that video and have to say it was very interesting as I'm suspecting my gelding may have ulcers.

 

[Vetwrap]

My boy was diagnosed with grade 4 ulcers this time last year and prescribed a course of anti-b's, Gastroguard and pepto bismol to line his his stomach. Something caused a reaction which gave him a cellulitis like condition. He was re-scoped after five weeks of Gastroguard and his ulcers were worse, not better.
Since then, I have managed his condition with diet and turnout.
He has Coligone syringed down his throat immediately before breakfast and dinner, feeds consisting of fast fibre, Saracen Re-leve, micronised linseed, Feedmark Ulcer Calm, Yeasacc, magnesium and additional oil.
He is a different horse. He holds weight, is much calmer, works nicely and doesn't have any of the girthiness that he previously displayed.
There are so many ways to deal with ulcers and I hope that someone posts something that might help you to help your horse.
Best of luck and Merry Christmas.

 

[Silverfire]

I would check his rugs aren't rubbing him or creating pressure points before you spend a fortune on supplements which he may not need. There was a link on facebook the other day about the damage rugs can do to a horses neck. If you haven't already then you could try a fleece girth sleeve on his girth and do the girth up very gradually and see if that makes a difference.

Edited to add link: http://sreinhold.wordpress.com/2010/02/28/horse-winter-blankets-how-much-damage-can-they-do/

 

[LMR]

I would check his rugs aren't rubbing him or creating pressure points before you spend a fortune on supplements which he may not need. There was a link on facebook the other day about the damage rugs can do to a horses neck. If you haven't already then you could try a fleece girth sleeve on his girth and do the girth up very gradually and see if that makes a difference.

Edited to add link: http://sreinhold.wordpress.com/2010/02/28/horse-winter-blankets-how-much-damage-can-they-do/

Thanks his rugs aren't rubbing him, have tried a variety of births, sheepskin, fleece neoprene and nothing has changed. Only thing I haven't tried is a Fairfax girth but not willing to fork out that much on something that prob won't make a difference.

 

[catembi]

GS - he was on antibiotics as well, & (?) antspepsin (sp?) to coat the ulcers.

Interesting to hear that there are other treatment options, esp ones that are cheaper than GG! I will print this thread & take it with me on Fri, so thank you!

T x

 

[Frozen Hoof Boots]

My vet who was a gastro expert said pyloric ulcers can be caused by recent Bute medication.
This was why we had to treat the hind gut as well as stomach. Pyloric region is on the exit of the stomach.

 

[Indy]

My new horse is on his second week of Gastro Plus. I picked him up at the beginning of November and he had a reputation of being mean and miserable. When rugging up if he couldn't bite you he'd try swinging round and cow kicking and you wouldn't do anything with him without tying him up. The first week on Gastro Plus didn't really see any improvement in him but this second week he's a completely different horse. His ears are pricked, he's interested in his surroundings, has no issues with rugging now and I can change his rugs while he's stood in his stable. He seems to come looking for attention now rather than avoiding it - the result has really been astounding after such a short period of time,

 

[springtime1331]

I've had my mare on the egusin for 3 weeks now and have been very happy with the improvements she has made. Easier to groom, far less grumpy to girth up and showing more interest in her surroundings. Under saddle she is more willing and not as tense as she had been. However, I have also had her physio who said she was very sore along her back and hindquarters. I've been using an equilibrium massage pad before I ride so it's hard to pinpoint what exactly has caused the improvement. She still tries to walk off when I put the saddle on, but that is the only symptom left.

 

[philamena]

Been there Springtime

Bracing against ulcer pain often causes pain through the back and around the hindquarters and loins, so it's very likely they were all connected - and that if you didn't get the back sorted it may have helped cause the ulcers to recur. So good for you as a lot of people miss this! Knowing what I have now arduously learned (!) I'd always get really good bodywork done when treating for ulcers in future.

 

[springtime1331]

Interesting to know philamena. She has her physio out mid January so it will be interesting to see if treating for ulcers has improved her back pain. I honestly don't know what I do to horses. Had to retire my hugely complicated WB aged only 12 because of a bad back, bought this one native x TB and meant to straight forward and an easy keeper and has been nothing of the sort

 

[fuzzle]

Very good post above, whwn my horse recovered from ulcers i had her back checked again, she was out in her back and her poll, he thought this was due to her holding herself so tense with the the pain of the ulcers, my horse is having a winter break at the moment getting herself very relaxed and on the equine scince maintance, i will have her back re checked when i have her back in work in feb which i do that way it eliminates al problems, if your horse does or thing that you have ulcers it is well worth having a back check up when in the recovery or recovered period xxx

 

[philamena]

Interesting - let us know how you go!

 

[catembi]

H'mm still *rubbish* under saddle, i.e. wanting to stop, only wanting to do a handful of trot strides. But also less flat. And he was playing with my other horse & chasing him afterwards. So 'the same' better rather than 'the same' worse.

Early days, I s'pose.

T x

 

[catembi]

He's been on it since Sat, so not a week yet.

His general demeanour is changing. He seems brighter, less withdrawn, more cheerful, less hopeless. He is playing with my other horse rather than just attacking him, & wandering around the field with him finding things to investigate instead of hiding in the field shelter all day.

I am trying to be patient! It's not so much impatience for myself, to get riding again, but for him cos I want him to feel better. It must be miserable to be in constant pain with no understanding of why & no way to make it better. It's not as if he can tootle off to the chemists by himself!

T x

 

[fuzzle]

Totally understand been threw this myself with my horse!!! the good thing is that your seeing changes very quickly which is a good thing!!!!! ulcers are nasty painful things and once this gp starts kicking in and healing them you will get your painfree horse back, everything takes time to heal weather your a horse or a person and time is the best healer, look how much better he is after a few days!!! my horse was close to been PTS colicking nasty evil!!! this gp worked on mine!! after 4 weeks i have a total angel!!! pain free and willingto work!! the main thing is you know what is wrong with her and your treating it she will comebetter for you!! try be pacient hun xxxxxxxxxx

 

[LMR]

Just an update. My boy has been on Egusin for a week. He's just been lunged and I got on him yesterday. He was still girthy when I tacked him up, not sure if he is anticipating as before I do girth up he is already swishing his tail. But no change there. However when I rode him he was very forward and sharp in a good way. It felt like he was really up for everything I asked him and he was also more up in front. Not sure if this could be the egusin as I also got a magnetic rug for Xmas he has only had this on twice for 15 mns so wouldn't think it would be the rug.

So far I'm happy with the results and will continue the egusin for another month and reevaluate.

 

[catembi]

I emailed Debbi yest & she said to ring her, which I did today. To start with, I was doing the doseage wrong - I was doing half a scoop am & pm, when I should be doing one whole one in the evening & none in the morning. She said to do a whole one night & morning til Monday. She also wanted to see his blood test results (quite a collection!) so I got them from the vets & emailed them to her, & she's sent them on to her scientist person.

We shall see what happens! She really does seem to care about me & Trev, which makes a nice change as the vets aren't interested & family think that I should PTS & get something else. He is my responsibility tho & we shall stick at it for as long as is fair to him.

T x

 

[fuzzle]

Wow the fennel seeds do you use powder or the atual seed?? how much do you give?? xxx

 

[catembi]

The seeds. They look like...grey seeds! I've got a mini blue scoop from one of our many tubs of supplements & I do a scoop of them twice a day. Last time, he was on them for maybe 2 months & his enthusiasm improved from 2/10 to maybe 4/10 & stayed there. I.e. so far & no further. I *think* they help with wind & hind gut but I don't think they do much for ulcers. They are £1.69 for 400g from Asda & about £9/kg from Global Herbs!

I need to feel as if I'm doing SOMETHING to help!

T x

 

[dianchi]

You are doing loads for him!
Very lucky pony if you ask me! Own specialised formula! Hope its free

 

[catembi]

Not free! But not as £££££££££££££££ as I was fearing!

Plod at lunchtime - v slow. Walks a few strides, then stops. I was hoping for a bit more animation as his face looks happier, IYSWIM...

Why do I attract the non straightforward brokens...??

T x

 

[flaxen tail]

Just a thought my mare has EMS and same symptoms girthyness and objecting to rugs and it has been pinpointed to foot pain as it makes them tight through their muscles ,she has ultra sound ,equine bowen and epona shoes ,hope you can solve your horses problems x

 

[catembi]

For anyone who's interested - his stuff is (we think) in the country & we are waiting for it to clear customs, so I might have it Sat or Mon.

He was sooooooo sloooooooow Tues lunchtime, but when I went to catch him in later, he'd been hooleying around the field, as evidenced by cut up field & sweaty horse. Then yest A's sharer saw him eating poo in the field. Apparently his bloods showed deficiencies. There is *something* going on with him, but I'm not sure what!

If they can fix T, I might set them loose on A & see if anything can be done for his EPSM. Haha, I might go from 2 field ornaments to 2 in full work, then I'll have to do a moany post on here complaining that I'm aching all over & stony broke from trying to compete 2 BD/BS...!! Altho if I put them both in a trailer at the same time, I'd v quickly be reduced to NO horses as they would have disassembled each other by the time we got to the comp...

T x