Could this horse potentially go barefoot?

[SCMSL]

My mare is a 5 year old who has been diagnosed with severe ulcers twice in the last year. She is now kept on a low dose of omeprazole per vets order.

I have been considering if she could potentially go barefoot, given her issues.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

We compete in FEI 5 year old dressage and she is on a very barefoot friendly diet due to her ulcers (low NSC is also advisable for ulcer prone horses).

 

[Alyth]

One of the functions of hooves is to eliminate toxins.....they are filtered through the laminae and lodge in the hoof wall and this gets worn away (as long as they are not shod!).....so I would think going barefoot could well be good for your mare. More pertinent is can you do it? Can you make sure her diet is free of sugars and has sufficient minerals, that she has loads of movement (24/7 turn out + exercise) and a good trim......can you resist the taunts and challenges of those who chose to shoe and think you are abusing your horse by not doing the same? I am sure there will be many other opinions! Whatever you decide good luck.

 

[LucyPriory]

My mare is a 5 year old who has been diagnosed with severe ulcers twice in the last year. She is now kept on a low dose of omeprazole per vets order.

I have been considering if she could potentially go barefoot, given her issues.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

We compete in FEI 5 year old dressage and she is on a very barefoot friendly diet due to her ulcers (low NSC is also advisable for ulcer prone horses).

The ulcers and omeprazole shouldn't prevent your mare going barefoot. But hooves are a window to horse health and this is what makes it so difficult for some owners. Ideally the feedback given by the hooves is used to take steps to improve things but not everyone can do that.

As you already feed low NSC etc you have already taken the biggest step towards healthy feet. Another one is to get the frogs as good as you can.

You may find barefoot a positive measure - I find some nervous, stressy horses are less so when they get their feet right.

 

[TwoStroke]

I think you will need boots... I would certainly invest in some, as the diet you have the horse on is low in proper forage and high in things such as short chop alfalfa, which can cause footiness, and other feeds such as Forage n Fibre, which contain molasses.

A healthy diet should provide no less than 50% of the diet in forage, but a barefoot diet needs to be entirely forage based. I don't want to discourage you, but I think you will struggle unless you're willing to consider a healthier diet - hence my suggestion of boots, which will be very useful for ensuring you can keep the horse comfortable.

The good news is that if you ride mainly on a surface then you're less likely to encounter problems. I would still try it iiwy, but don't expect a high level of performance over tough surfaces.

 

[paddy555]

I have 2 with pretty bad hind gut problems and they have been the 2 easiest barefoot.
The issues with one were so severe until his perfect diet was found that his behaviour was impossible and he was in a great deal of pain. His feet however were the least of his problems.
I had a problem with the other before I realised the cause in that the hind gut problem caused body issues which had a knock on effect to balance on one foot. Once this was resolved he has been fine. Both work daily without boots. All their feet are good have concavity etc with good frogs. So I don't necessarily think ulcer problem horses are barefoot problems and in fact they may be some of the best barefoot horses as their diet has had to be perfected to deal with the ulcer problems. Everything I have found good for their guts has been good for feet

, but a barefoot diet needs to be entirely forage based.

not necessarily it depends on the horse. I have had barefoot horses fed coarse mix, horse and pony nuts, racehorse cubes, barley, maize, oats, alfalfa pellets, hi fibre pellets, alfalfa pellets, copra and a whole heap of other feedstuffs over the years and they have had no problems. Not all barefoot horses have diet problems.

 

[TwoStroke]

not necessarily it depends on the horse. I have had barefoot horses fed coarse mix, horse and pony nuts, racehorse cubes, barley, maize, oats, alfalfa pellets, hi fibre pellets, alfalfa pellets, copra and a whole heap of other feedstuffs over the years and they have had no problems. Not all barefoot horses have diet problems.

Ok, I'll be more specific .

For a successful transition to barefoot, you need to choose the path of least resistance - start from scratch and then once you have a comfortable horse, add things in if they work for you. If you go in with a diet which causes many horses problems, you are setting yourself up for failure imo.

 

[samlf]

One of the functions of hooves is to eliminate toxins.....they are filtered through the laminae and lodge in the hoof wall and this gets worn away (as long as they are not shod!)......

Is there a study or article to support this? I have never heard this before!

 

[paddy555]

Ok, I'll be more specific .

For a successful transition to barefoot, you need to choose the path of least resistance - start from scratch and then once you have a comfortable horse, add things in if they work for you. If you go in with a diet which causes many horses problems, you are setting yourself up for failure imo.

Ah I did it the other way. They lived on grass, ate hay,h & p nuts, cereals etc and whatever else I had and I rode them unshod.
I managed that for well over 20 years before I ever heard of "diet" or of boots or "barefoot". I had no problems. I suspect that many of the horses who have diet problems end up on lists lke this. I think there is probably a large number out there happily eating grass and everything else who are perfectly sound.

 

[TwoStroke]

Ah I did it the other way. They lived on grass, ate hay,h & p nuts, cereals etc and whatever else I had and I rode them unshod.
I managed that for well over 20 years before I ever heard of "diet" or of boots or "barefoot". I had no problems. I suspect that many of the horses who have diet problems end up on lists lke this. I think there is probably a large number out there happily eating grass and everything else who are perfectly sound.

I'm sure there are plenty like that, but it's well documented that a great many are not. Personally I know of one horse (that I've met) that can cope on a diet like that, and even he has his limits. Neither of mine could be fed like that. Why run the risk of making your horse sore when it's not necessary?

 

[LucyPriory]

I'm sure there are plenty like that, but it's well documented that a great many are not. Personally I know of one horse (that I've met) that can cope on a diet like that, and even he has his limits. Neither of mine could be fed like that. Why run the risk of making your horse sore when it's not necessary?

There are a lot of horses out there on diets full of cereals and molasses - they are usually shod.

Like TwoStroke I don't know many barefoot horses that don't show the downsides of a sugary/starchy diet. But as Paddy555 says that might be because they don't swim in the same pond.

 

[paddy555]

I'm sure there are plenty like that, but it's well documented that a great many are not. Personally I know of one horse (that I've met) that can cope on a diet like that, and even he has his limits. Neither of mine could be fed like that. Why run the risk of making your horse sore when it's not necessary?

I was simply qualifying your statement that a barefoot diet needs to be entirely forage based not suggesting how anyone should feed their horses. It is case of what works for that horse.
There do seem to be horses on the perfect barefoot diet yet they still cannot make it. That suggests there is something else going on with these horses which makes them unable to cope with their diet.

ps. sorry but cannot work out the swimming in the pond bit. Must have missed something.

 

[TwoStroke]

I agree with you, paddy, especially about the pond thing , I simply wanted to stress the point, knowing what the OP feeds the horse, that the odds of a seamless transition to rock crunching barefoot are greatly reduced by certain dietary factors. I believe in people giving themselves the best odds possible for success .

 

[Slightlyconfused]

My ems horse has to have boots on when ridden and turnt out and he is on a very low sugar/starch diet very high fibre with metformin but cannot cope fully rock crunching.

My WB and old welsh mare however we took shoes off that sept and they never even noticed a difference, well the WB was a little tender first off but soon caught up, and they are on same diet as ems pony Barr the metformin. So again it depends on the diet and rehab/ work plan that suits the horse.

 

[magicmoose]

ps. sorry but cannot work out the swimming in the pond bit. Must have missed something.

The owners that have a horse that has no problems transitioning to barefoot and can eat anything without it affecting their feet probably never ask for advice on a forum or seek out their local barefoot expert. They must be out there somewhere, but we may never know, as they are swimming in their own pond, not the HHO ocean!

Similarly, I suspect that there may also be horses that don't roll straight after having a bath, I've just never heard of one!

 

[Alyth]

Is there a study or article to support this? I have never heard this before!

I can't remember where I read about it.....but looking at the structure of the laminae it made sense, and put that with knowing that horses can shed their hoof walls when badly compromised I believed it.....others are more knowledgeable than me and may have more information.....

 

[SCMSL]

Thank you every body for taking the time to write in this post.

A little more info:

Horse is on a very low starch/sugar diet, with unlimited hay. She does have quite a bit of alfalfa which I guess I would have to see if she could cope with - I'd rather not remove it from her diet since its great for her stomach.

I can't really understand what TwoStroke means when saying I would have to change this horse's diet in order for the barefoot to work, as all I have been reading goes in accordance with what I am already doing atm.

I already have some easyboots in which the mare feels great - she's worn them in the past when she lost a shoe.

As for her daily regimen, she is stabled during the day, works for an hour to an hour and a half in the afternoon and is turned out for the night in a sand paddock.

I guess my biggest concern is how she would handle competitions, as the footing at home is absolutely perfect.

 

[Queenbee]

The only thing I've read about omeprazole with regards to hooves/legs is that it can cause a pulse in horses.

 

[Goldenstar]

I think you will need boots... I would certainly invest in some, as the diet you have the horse on is low in proper forage and high in things such as short chop alfalfa, which can cause footiness, and other feeds such as Forage n Fibre, which contain molasses.

A healthy diet should provide no less than 50% of the diet in forage, but a barefoot diet needs to be entirely forage based. I don't want to discourage you, but I think you will struggle unless you're willing to consider a healthier diet - hence my suggestion of boots, which will be very useful for ensuring you can keep the horse comfortable.

The good news is that if you ride mainly on a surface then you're less likely to encounter problems. I would still try it iiwy, but don't expect a high level of performance over tough surfaces.

My BF horses eat oats and linseed and all except one Alflafa and are fine .
OP try the Bf it takes time and some are easier than others but gives real benefits if it does not work for you you just go back to shoes and the horse will have had a break from shoeing which always good for them.

 

[Alyth]

Many horses become 'footy' on alfalfa.....and movement is most important, this is why tracks have become so popular! Is she getting any extra minerals? Zinc, copper, magnesium? It would probably be a good idea to get a trimmer to visit and make an evaluation....

 

[TwoStroke]

My BF horses eat oats and linseed and all except one Alflafa and are fine .
OP try the Bf it takes time and some are easier than others but gives real benefits if it does not work for you you just go back to shoes and the horse will have had a break from shoeing which always good for them.

Nowhere did I say that you could never feed anything but fibre . Only that the below diet will imo be more likely to cause footiness than not:

1) Bucket feed: horses at the yard are fed 3 times a day and as such I don't want her to have to watch the others eating without having something for herself. So, each feed will consist of 0,5kg of Forage and Fiber and 100g of Alfa A acting both as stomach buffer and chaff.
2) Mash: This is where I'm hoping the calories will come in. Too buckets of Mash, first one consisting of 2kg of Solution Mash, 1kg of Alfalfa cubes and 1kg of Sumo MB and second one with 2kg of Solution Mash, 2kg of Alfalfa cubes and 0,5kg of Sumo Original.

With 5kg of hay per day. I also wouldn't have thought it would be any good at all for an ulcer horse... Mine would relapse on that diet, I'm sure.

I was making the point so that the OP doesn't have unrealistic expectations, but as I said - if she rides mainly on a surface then it may not be a problem.

 

[paddy555]

Horse is on a very low starch/sugar diet, with unlimited hay. She does have quite a bit of alfalfa which I guess I would have to see if she could cope with - I'd rather not remove it from her diet since its great for her stomach.

I can't really understand what TwoStroke means when saying I would have to change this horse's diet in order for the barefoot to work, as all I have been reading goes in accordance with what I am already doing atm.

I'm not sure what is wrong with your diet. Presumably it helps her ulcers and she may well sail through barefoot on it.
Alfalfa is not the problem as such it is the way it is processed as chaff. One of mine will be hobbling on only a small amount of hi fi lite or alfa A yet he eats bucketloads of Denge alfalfa nuts wth no problems. All of ours are on the nuts with no problem. I don't think it is the alfalfa that is the problem but the mould inhibitors etc etc in the chopped alfalfa chaff. This also happens with some other chaffs so you may have to take that into account.
You could always change the alfa A to a bit more alfalfa pellets. I soak mine so they last longer.

I wouldn't assume problems barefoot just because you have ulcers.

 

[paddy555]

The owners that have a horse that has no problems transitioning to barefoot and can eat anything without it affecting their feet probably never ask for advice on a forum or seek out their local barefoot expert. They must be out there somewhere, but we may never know, as they are swimming in their own pond, not the HHO ocean!

Similarly, I suspect that there may also be horses that don't roll straight after having a bath, I've just never heard of one!

OTOH it could well be a case of the HHO pond and the rest are swimming quite happily in their own ocean.
And yes they are out there somewhere. I have had a fair few of them over the years and I have known others. It would never have occured to anyone to post on an internet forum about not having a problem

 

[SCMSL]

"With 5kg of hay per day. I also wouldn't have thought it would be any good at all for an ulcer horse... Mine would relapse on that diet, I'm sure."

Well, she actually gets unlimited hay and eats around 10kg per day. The cubes are also considered as long stem forage and some people actually use them as hay replacers so she is actually getting about 12kg of "hay", in one way or the other. The rest of her regime is very high in fiber and low in both starch and sugar.

The only reason why I am not quite sure if it would work out or not is that the ulcers tend to "drain" the horse, and hooves, as we know, are one of the first things to deteriorate when there is something wrong with the horse.

 

[maccachic]

Mine had ulcers (TB) best thing I found for him was lucerne and oats and a good supplement and yeast.

I could never get him above average condition (he was underweight when I got him, neglected) swtiched him to the above diet and the change in the horse was dramatic.

He is barefoot and had very underrun feet, dodgy bars etc when I started this is all resolving now, there are some pics in my album. He was 12 when I brought him and he is 14 now.

 

[TwoStroke]

I was quoting you when I said 5kg of hay, OP. and alfalfa cubes don't count as hay.

 

[paddy555]

The only reason why I am not quite sure if it would work out or not is that the ulcers tend to "drain" the horse, and hooves, as we know, are one of the first things to deteriorate when there is something wrong with the horse.

I can see where you are coming from but it wouldn't put me off. Get the diet right for the ulcers and I am sure the feet will be well worth trying.
I struggled for a long time as each horse is an individual and mine were hind gut problems. For one bicarb was the answer. It really helped the gut and suprisingly had a knock on effect on the feet.

At the same time I had a Cushings horse. Now that REALLY was a challenge.