Cows stuck on cargo ship - who can help

Or shop locally with local farms and producers, where you know the provenance of the animals.
As a former manager of farmers’ markets and having worked for several sustainable food / animal welfare (NOT animal rights ) organisations, I think I can safely say, very few people can / can afford to do that. If you can, great. And ‘local’ does not automatically mean good animal welfare.
 
As a former manager of farmers’ markets and having worked for several sustainable food / animal welfare (NOT animal rights ) organisations, I think I can safely say, very few people can / can afford to do that. If you can, great. And ‘local’ does not automatically mean good animal welfare.

Of course it's not accessible to everyone but that doesn't undermine its existence for those that can access it. I can't access takeaway deliveries where we are but I don't deny they exist or that they serve a very real purpose for people living in urban settings.

Not everyone can afford meat these days, full stop. But I do think that the narrative that meat sourced directly from farms is disproportionately expensive is harmful and not fair.

The price of mince, steaks and roasting joints of beef from both of our neighbours is less expensive than from the local co op and Waitrose. I think supermarket prices have increased massively and local farms are now more competitive. Not all farm shops are not Daylesford, there are so many more farm shops popping up all over the place and there is a reason for that - they are getting far more business than if it really were only affordable to the organic shopping elite. A new one opened in one of our nearby villages just this weekend.
 
My horse was transported from South America to Italy in a boat load of horses. Most went to the meat market. 😕
Polo pony? I knew a Criollo who came over to the UK from Argentina by boat - think he was one of five or so that actually survived the journey, most of his companions died on the way.

Poor, poor cows.
 
Polo pony? I knew a Criollo who came over to the UK from Argentina by boat - think he was one of five or so that actually survived the journey, most of his companions died on the way.

Poor, poor cows.
Not polo ponies. Meat ponies, reject (cull) criollos, sold out of Buenos Aires and shipped to Italy, 1500 at a time in the holds of cargo ships. The lucky ones were bought off the dock by deslers and transported around Europe in cattle trucks and then sold as riding ponies to mugs like me, at vastly inflated prices. It was absolute pot luck. My first one was an absolute knacker - he lived out his life with me for over 15 years and was never really sound. I still have my second one (bought a year after the first). They both came over in 2007, the last year of the criollo transports.
Those horses were traumatised and in poor condition, and of course we only saw the survivors, who were the best of them. It’s barbaric that animals are still transported like this.
 
Polo pony? I knew a Criollo who came over to the UK from Argentina by boat - think he was one of five or so that actually survived the journey, most of his companions died on the way.

Poor, poor cows.
Polo ponies that come over from South America are worth a lot of money, they aren’t going into the meat trade.
 
Not polo ponies. Meat ponies, reject (cull) criollos, sold out of Buenos Aires and shipped to Italy, 1500 at a time in the holds of cargo ships. The lucky ones were bought off the dock by deslers and transported around Europe in cattle trucks and then sold as riding ponies to mugs like me, at vastly inflated prices. It was absolute pot luck. My first one was an absolute knacker - he lived out his life with me for over 15 years and was never really sound. I still have my second one (bought a year after the first). They both came over in 2007, the last year of the criollo transports.
Those horses were traumatised and in poor condition, and of course we only saw the survivors, who were the best of them. It’s barbaric that animals are still transported like this.


Mine must have one of the last. He is still with me and has been worth his weight in gold.
 
Polo ponies that come over from South America are worth a lot of money, they aren’t going into the meat trade.
The horse I knew was a proper polo pony, not a meat pony, who arrived in the UK to join a wealthy sponsor’s string.

There was a small initiative in Argentina at the time to try bringing polo ponies up here by boat, to avoid the airline industry having a monopoly. Safe to say it didn’t last.
 
Of course it's not accessible to everyone but that doesn't undermine its existence for those that can access it. I can't access takeaway deliveries where we are but I don't deny they exist or that they serve a very real purpose for people living in urban settings.

Not everyone can afford meat these days, full stop. But I do think that the narrative that meat sourced directly from farms is disproportionately expensive is harmful and not fair.

The price of mince, steaks and roasting joints of beef from both of our neighbours is less expensive than from the local co op and Waitrose. I think supermarket prices have increased massively and local farms are now more competitive. Not all farm shops are not Daylesford, there are so many more farm shops popping up all over the place and there is a reason for that - they are getting far more business than if it really were only affordable to the organic shopping elite. A new one opened in one of our nearby villages just this weekend.
This, many times over! Meat and food more generally is expensive in a number of ways but you can either pay the cost of decent, environmentally sane, traceable foods and pay up front, or you can pay in human and animal misery (if you eat animal products) and in degrees of environmental irresponsibility. Nothing comes without all of these costs tbh. That is true of a diet including meat and vegetarian and vegan foodstuffs. And absolutely everything else we buy too.

Buying UK grown food at the very least reduces transportation costs and is extremely likely to be absolutely what you think it is, safe and if animal based, have a decent basic level of welfare guaranteed. That may not be sufficient for some folks of course and dietary choices are personal. Grass fed UK lamb and beef are probably 2 of the most environmentally sound, high welfare meats possible but probably best in limited quantities. Venison is also sustainable and ethical and often cheap if sourced directly from licensed hunters. I understand this may not appeal to many but it's worth considering.

Our lamb goes direct to slaughter - no long journeys, no markets, no long chain of producers. The lambs have spent their whole lives on grass, eating mountain herbs and being an element of local biodiversity including red listed birds, amphibians and rare plants and fungi. They are part of a soil regenerative system and every part of those lambs sold by a butcher are totally traceable. But yes, will cost more at the butcher for that provenance.
 
Of course it's not accessible to everyone but that doesn't undermine its existence for those that can access it. I can't access takeaway deliveries where we are but I don't deny they exist or that they serve a very real purpose for people living in urban settings.

Not everyone can afford meat these days, full stop. But I do think that the narrative that meat sourced directly from farms is disproportionately expensive is harmful and not fair.

The price of mince, steaks and roasting joints of beef from both of our neighbours is less expensive than from the local co op and Waitrose. I think supermarket prices have increased massively and local farms are now more competitive. Not all farm shops are not Daylesford, there are so many more farm shops popping up all over the place and there is a reason for that - they are getting far more business than if it really were only affordable to the organic shopping elite. A new one opened in one of our nearby villages just this weekend.
We are also lucky to have a farm that sells its milk directly to us, the public…they have also now included local baked good and a coffee machine….its self service, at their gate and you just return your glass bottle each time and buy another one etc…no waste ….my butcher is also in a small village, buys local animals and butchers them himself plus he is also now or his staff are, making ready meals, which are lovely, and sells a small selection of in season vegetables…
 
We are also lucky to have a farm that sells its milk directly to us, the public…they have also now included local baked good and a coffee machine….its self service, at their gate and you just return your glass bottle each time and buy another one etc…no waste ….my butcher is also in a small village, buys local animals and butchers them himself plus he is also now or his staff are, making ready meals, which are lovely, and sells a small selection of in season vegetables…
We have the same, the milk is Jersey milk and very rich, they do milk shakes as well. The butcher has just won the Taste of Yorkshire award for his pork pies, for the 7th year running.
 
This, many times over! Meat and food more generally is expensive in a number of ways but you can either pay the cost of decent, environmentally sane, traceable foods and pay up front, or you can pay in human and animal misery (if you eat animal products) and in degrees of environmental irresponsibility. Nothing comes without all of these costs tbh.

This forum where people have horses isnt remotely representative of the rest of the world. A large number of people are barely making ends meet financially. They don't have the luxury of choosing between cheap and expensive food. Its the cheap food and be glad you can eat. A lot of people are paying in their own human misery just to be alive. If we improved the life of people then they would be in a better place to make good choices. But the way its going its going to be a whole lot worse.

I'm in the cotswolds next door to Clarkson. Taking his shop out of the equation as its more of a tourist attraction, there is no farm shop here that charges the same or less than supermarkets. I know, I've tried them all. I'm not sure how people are managing to find these farm shops selling food at the same price as Sainsburys.

I get my milk from one, its a tiny thing but I can afford it just, its £1.60 a litre. Double the price of a supermarket nearly, and you have to pay £2.75 for a bottle to use. If I used a lot of milk, I couldn't justify that.
 
This forum where people have horses isnt remotely representative of the rest of the world. A large number of people are barely making ends meet financially. They don't have the luxury of choosing between cheap and expensive food. Its the cheap food and be glad you can eat. A lot of people are paying in their own human misery just to be alive. If we improved the life of people then they would be in a better place to make good choices. But the way its going its going to be a whole lot worse.

I'm in the cotswolds next door to Clarkson. Taking his shop out of the equation as its more of a tourist attraction, there is no farm shop here that charges the same or less than supermarkets. I know, I've tried them all. I'm not sure how people are managing to find these farm shops selling food at the same price as Sainsburys.

I get my milk from one, its a tiny thing but I can afford it just, its £1.60 a litre. Double the price of a supermarket nearly, and you have to pay £2.75 for a bottle to use. If I used a lot of milk, I couldn't justify that.

Nobody is forced to buy meat though. It's a choice. I do understand that it's easier for some people to turn a blind eye to what goes on, so that they can enjoy that cheap burger or a cheap piece of steak, but nobody is forcing them to. The comment above that the way to make a difference is to be veggie is not strictly correct as LadyG pointed out. You can still eat meat while not supporting everything bad about the meat trade and that's a fair compromise for some.
 
Nobody is forced to buy meat though. It's a choice. I do understand that it's easier for some people to turn a blind eye to what goes on, so that they can enjoy that cheap burger or a cheap piece of steak, but nobody is forcing them to.

Arent they? Eating a vegetarian diet is far more expensive than living on processed crap.
 
Arent they? Eating a vegetarian diet is far more expensive than living on processed crap.
Yes, and your earlier point about people struggling to fundamentally survive is also right. It is possible to eat cheaply and more healthily and ethically but that also takes knowledge, energy and often time; commodities that most people struggle with. I think my comment was more aimed at the community here really tbh though I know horse ownership doesn't necessarily = affluence!
 
Not to take away from the absolute horror of this situation, but these cattle are being shipped from Uruguay to Turkey, and these problems seem to occur with distressing regularity in the Middle East and surrounding countries. I'm no expert but I wonder whether it's because they insist on live imports in a way that other countries don't. So if you're eating meat in the UK, so long as you're eating UK meat or meat from other countries (e.g. NZ lamb is imported frozen to the UK) that have an OK rep for animal welfare (or at least, some slaughterhouse and transport regs, etc) then I wouldn't have thought you're really contributing to this situation.

IMO eating less meat, and higher welfare meat, should be something anyone who eats meat should be aiming for (and there are undeniably huge welfare problems in the UK supply chain) - but I don't think this specific situation is directly applicable to the UK.

Personally I don't believe live exports of this kind should be legal anywhere in this day and age. There's a horrible but quite informative German article here, about the trade from the EU.

 
Yes, and your earlier point about people struggling to fundamentally survive is also right. It is possible to eat cheaply and more healthily and ethically but that also takes knowledge, energy and often time; commodities that most people struggle with. I think my comment was more aimed at the community here really tbh though I know horse ownership doesn't necessarily = affluence!
and location, many people don't have a handy farm down the road/farm shop/proper butchers
 
and location, many people don't have a handy farm down the road/farm shop/proper butchers
Yes, our food infrastructure is awful really, with fresh food being unavailable outside a supermarket in many places. A great many people realistically do not have regular access to independent food shops. It is neither sustainable nor 'safe' in terms of significant supply chain issues. There are increasing numbers of local, good food alternatives that have been created by and for poorer communities but they are often not well known about and limited in capacity. But they exist and that movement is growing. This one, for example:-
 
This forum where people have horses isnt remotely representative of the rest of the world. A large number of people are barely making ends meet financially. They don't have the luxury of choosing between cheap and expensive food. Its the cheap food and be glad you can eat. A lot of people are paying in their own human misery just to be alive. If we improved the life of people then they would be in a better place to make good choices. But the way its going its going to be a whole lot worse.

I'm in the cotswolds next door to Clarkson. Taking his shop out of the equation as its more of a tourist attraction, there is no farm shop here that charges the same or less than supermarkets. I know, I've tried them all. I'm not sure how people are managing to find these farm shops selling food at the same price as Sainsburys.

I get my milk from one, its a tiny thing but I can afford it just, its £1.60 a litre. Double the price of a supermarket nearly, and you have to pay £2.75 for a bottle to use. If I used a lot of milk, I couldn't justify that.
I am a senior citizen on the basic state pension and also pension credit, I count every penny, my nearest super shop a litre of milk in a plastic bottle 1.45, farm cheaper..the meat from the butcher I mentioned is cheaper than the supermarket, as are his ready meals, buying a ready meal for one, is cheaper than buying all the ingredients to make them….
I have a dog, he gets a good quality dog food…..
I think you saying that people on here having horses etc is not remotely representative is possibly harsh….I know people who have horses, indeed different animals who give up all sorts of things to keep their horses….
 
and location, many people don't have a handy farm down the road/farm shop/proper butchers
The traditional butcher is disappearing rapidly. My father was a traditional butcher and slaughter man, with a shop on a Council estate, it attracted customers from afar too. We lived above the shop in an enormous and freezing cold maisonette. I remember going with him as a very little girl, watching him pick and buy his on the hoof beasts and then on to the local abattoir in Warwickshire. He would encourage me to have a go at picking out good conformation, I am sure it helped me with horses later in life ! The animals did not travel more than 30 minutes from farm to abattoir. After hanging, the sides of meat would be collected and back to the shop in his little white van. I learnt to drive in that little white van. The art of a butcher then took place, no packaging, no waste. Big blocks that were cleaned until the had a dip in them, all the stainless steel racking and shop front, the awning, sawdust on the shop floor, knife sharpening skills, he could sharpen a knife at the speed of light. I still have one of his knives in my kitchen, the handle is wrapped in butchers string and it terrifies me. Immaculate highly starched aprons and white coats that stood up by themselves, a fresh set every morning, mother must have been utterly sick of doing them.

The massive walk in fridge with a huge heavy door that locked behind you. He used to tell me if I was naughty I was going in that fridge to calm down:eek:. His work ethic was epic, 7am open 6pm close, half hour for lunch closed the shop 6 days a week. Plus the endless cleaning. The fridge checks, done by him, mum and I. He had wanted me to take the business on but I had no interest and his retirement came as BSE hit. He only had 12 months retired but his skill and hard work provided well for mother and taught me a lot about respecting animals. He was somewhat bemused that I am vegetarian and always have been. I simply do not like the taste or texture of meat.
 
Nobody is forced to buy meat though. It's a choice. I do understand that it's easier for some people to turn a blind eye to what goes on, so that they can enjoy that cheap burger or a cheap piece of steak, but nobody is forcing them to.
Actually, that’s not necessarily true, I had a teacher who desperately wanted to be veggie and completely morally disagreed with the consumption of meat, but she had a medical condition (can’t remember what) which meant that she physically had to eat meat. She was rather bitter about it. Apparently, it’s not as uncommon as it would seem, either, which makes sense because humans are omnivores. I would also suspect that medication for such a condition wouldn’t be available on the NHS as it doesn’t NEED expensive medication to treat, as one can just add a bit of meat to one’s diet.

I also find that, in supermarkets, free-range British meat (particularly beef) is becoming more available for lower prices. It only seems to be marginally higher priced than the cheap stuff, which can make all the difference to those having to count penny-by-penny, but for many it is affordable.
 
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