Cribbing and Ulcers, Whats your view?

[JoClark]

My horse cribs and was girthy from when i bought him 2 years ago at the age of 6. Last August i had him scoped and he had a lot of Grade 1 and 2 ulcers. He went on gastrogard.

Now i am very interested in views of, does cribbing cause ulcers or ulcers cause cribbing? Out of the two i think the latter.
However, or does stress/lack of feed/starch and mollasses cause them both?

In my case the gastrogard made a huge difference to how happy my boy was and i didnt see him crib, then after the 4 weeks and he came off it he gradually started again. I moved him so he could live out and have a stable ready for bad weather, he is very settled and happy so he is ready for the next round of gastrogard, this time we are doing a 4 week half dose after the initial 4 weeks. Fingers crossed it works.
I am also changing his feed at the moment, he was on calm amd condition, baileys lo cal balancer, simple system lucie pellets, alfa a oil and protexin and a scoop of wet speedibeet per meal. He looked uncomfortable eating and was cribbing after every mouthful taking a good half an hour to eat. I think the bulk of the calm and condition was too much. He is being swapped over to top spec comprehensive balancer and cool conditioning cubes, with the alfa a oil and lucie pellets.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

 

[Frozen Hoof Boots]

Hi there, Stress, diet, bute, pain, lack of continual access to forage etc are all contributors to ulcers.

Your horses tummy must be all over the place. My personal view is that ulcers cause cribbing. The fact your horse is cribbing but stopped when on Gastrogard shows that your horse is in discomfort and the cribbing is helping to produce more saliva to line the stomach.

In many cases horses with ulcers, colic and we all put it down to one offs. However they don't get scoped each time so how do we know. however in my experience you have to treat stomach and the hind gut. Together they go hand in hand. Treating with Gastrogard can screw the hind gut which if your horse has gastric ulcers assume that the knock on effect is that they will be in the hind gut.

I would recommend looking reading this http://www.drkerryridgway.com/articles/article-ulcers.php and at the research by KERX and invest in a tub of RiteTrac. You can get it from Saracen.
My horse was back to normal on this stuff within 48hours.

The diet needs to be all fibre, low starch and low sugar.
Lots of access to forage at all times. Personally I didn't find Alfa a oil any good made mine footy.

I would try Fast Fibre (1/3 dry then soaked twice a day) with 1/2 scoop readigrass. Does not need to be large quantities. Buy some micronised linseed and some yea sacc and brewers yeast (is a pre and pro biotic to treat the gut). The rest turnout as much as you can and adlib hay. Any loss of weight up the linseed.
Find a good balancer like forage plus winter balancer.
My horse 16'3hh 640kg. warmblood who had ulcers this time last year is now managed this way and he looks amazing positively glowing.

We had an ex racer 20 years ago who was a terrible cribber. If we only knew then what we know now, basically she had all the classic signs of ulcers but it wasn't known then. She colicked regularly and we had to have her pts in the end with a twisted gut.

Someone I know had an amazing show jumper who appeared to colic but was taken to the vet and then died. The postmortem revealed he had stomach ulcers that had perforated his gut



PM me if you want further info on diet, treatment etc. Hope this helps

 

[JoClark]

Dont get me wrong my boy currently looks amazing, even with the ulcers hasnt colicked in the 2 years ive had him.

He is living out with extra hay at this time of year, with horrific rain and wind he comes in. He gets masses of hay, always some left. I used the protexin for the hind gut. Now the top spec balancer has probiotics in and all his feed is low in starch. With the calm and condition he was eating and stretching his mouth like he was uncomfortable. Since the first lot of gastrogard he has become a lot more forward and happier. He is a bit grumpy when being girthed and with the cribbing coming back that is why he is having another lot of gastrogard.

It is very hard to know if cribbing is now habit, i guess we will know with the next scope. The vet did say he can get a stool sample tested too see if there are hind gut ulcers. I had a blood test done too and all came back fine

 

[Frozen Hoof Boots]

What was the blood test for??
My vet said the stool samples are not always very accurate and can give false negatives.

He's cribbing to make saliva to produce Bicarb in his tummy. If he stopped on Gastrogard that for me is a lightbulb moment. Maybe the protexin isn't working. I tried several supplements before the vet said use RiteTrac.

I'm a broken record but I'm trying to help, Honest you've goto treat the fore and hind gut. Gastrogard will help sort term stomach but will again unbalance the hind gut.

Interesting read... All about cribbing habits and Ker research on the subject.... Of why they crib and gastric health. Http://www.ker.com/library/equinews/v6n3/v6n304.pd
FYI neighlox has now been rebadged to RiteTrac

However these things can be caused by pain and discomfort so if it comes back again that's another sign....further investigation...

 

[JoClark]

I got a general blood test done to cover everything so we know his liver etc is fine.

I knew that when i didnt see him crib whilst on GG we were onto something.

No thats fine, its good to hear the thoughts of others who have been through this. The first website was very interesting, would be nice to know if he said what omeprazole product it is that works at a lower cost. Both links were helpful.

I dont think he is in pain, his saddle is checked every 6 months or sooner, he has a mc timony chiro out every 6 months too, teeth have just been done. His pelvis and pole were out slightly so she worked on that. He doesnt like to bend, he is very stiff with left bend to start with and really doesnt like to bend in his body until really warmed up, could be something or just warming up its self.

He looks great and is no where near as grumpy as used to be. Even girthing isnt affecting him much, still looks at you and ears back so not completely clear.

Ive had the GG delivered now. I will phone my vet and see if he suggests anything for the hind gut too.

I want a happy healthy horse

 

[JoClark]

Oh and he cribs in the field :/ he will eat for a while then crib for a while. If he has nothing to crib on he will try it on other horses. Shows how desperate he is to do it.

 

[wench]

One of my old horses cribbed badly. Didn't have ulcers as had her checked for them.

 

[JoClark]

Thats interesting, did ypu check for hind gut ulcers to? Do you have any theories why she cribbed?

 

[splashgirl45]

my horse does not have ulcers but used to crib really badly even in the field. was then diagnosed with cushings and since being on prascend has stopped cribbing completely!!!!!! i always know when her levels have gone up as she starts to be a bit grumpy and cribs again, once tablets increased she stops cribbing...may just be my horse but thought it may interest others with cribbing problems.......

 

[sam_]

Thats interesting, did ypu check for hind gut ulcers to? Do you have any theories why she cribbed?

I have a bad cribber and he can be quite girthy also, had him scoped no ulcers found, I think it's just habit with him as his apparently his mother was a bad cribber and copied her!

 

[fburton]

I have a bad cribber and he can be quite girthy also, had him scoped no ulcers found, I think it's just habit with him as his apparently his mother was a bad cribber and copied her!

Or he inherited genes from her that make him unusually susceptible?