Cribbing collars - a cruelty that should be banned

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Shilasdair

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Hi all
I need a rant regarding the use of cribbing collars.
I did think that horse owners had become more enlightened as to the causes of crib biting in horse, and that these evil collars had been consigned to the bin, as remnants of a more ignorant time.
Unfortunately there has been a proliferation of them at my yard, from people who should know enough to know better. :(

I know that electric collars for dogs are banned/in the process of being so, so why are crib collars not?

For anyone who uses one - give yourself a slap, go and research the causes of crib biting in horses, review your management accordingly, and burn the collar.

And apologise to your poor horse for making him/her suffer through your ignorance.

Your thoughts?
S :(
 
I am more concerned that there are several horses within 1 yard that crib and "need" a collar, which suggests poor management in general with nothing being done to address the reason, than whether the collars should be banned or not.

I really thought we were more enlightened about the link with ulcers, the local racing yard has every horse scoped each season, and treated if required, the last time I went only had 1 cribber out of almost 100 so they must be doing something right
 
equi said:
It is designed to put pressure on the horses throat making it extremely uncomfortable to put their head in the “cribbing” position.
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As do lots of gadgets that people use on horses, I don’t think cribbing collars are any worse than a lot of things that we just expect horses to deal with......too many shortcuts and too many horses leading sad, un natural lives. The best way to deal with a cribbing horse is to turn it out in a large field.
 
bonny said:
As do lots of gadgets that people use on horses, I don’t think cribbing collars are any worse than a lot of things that we just expect horses to deal with......too many shortcuts and too many horses leading sad, un natural lives. The best way to deal with a cribbing horse is to turn it out in a large field.
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with company!
 
I despise cribbing collars! Not all cribbing is for a reason - some is learned behaviour and habit that has stemmed from a reason such as ulcers. I would never stop a cribber but I would only give the horse certain areas to crib on where possible . It's their way of stress relief - like smoking, pen clicking, toe tapping, hair twirling etc.
 
Awful things. And those 'miracle collars' are a sure way to give your horse a headache on top of stressing it. I have seen a collar that looked like something from the Dark Ages used on a horse, it had a sprung plate with spikes underneath that pushed down when the horse cribbed and caused the spikes to press into the horse's throat. Barbaric and completely ineffectual.

My old boss had a horse that had had the muscle strip. Does that still go on?
 
I also despise cribbing collars, really do, I agree with EKW, you can treat the underlying causes (which we have) and try supplements, dietary advice, lots of turn out etc and they still do it, even if it less often, it releases endorphines as I understand it.

I've done all I can to avoid my mare having to wear a collar, but if you're on a yard and are told to do it, you have little option but to comply or move, you'll find it hard to find a livery yard where your horse will be allowed to crib/weave/box walk etc without comment from other liveries or the YOs. Some will be more helpful than others about trying to find ways to manage it, but I think it has the potential to cause a lot of angst, and despite the data you will never convince people that horses don't copy.

I am lucky my mare lives in a place where she can do it to her heart's content, and she lives with another cribber (both ex racers- not that it's relevent, just interesting) my friend manages them very much like EKW does, and they're happy and content horses.
 
my mare used to crib and i put a half drainpipe over her door so she didnt damage the door or do it in sight of others (even though i dont believe others copy) i would never have used a collar and gave her a fibre based diet and as much turn out as possible...she then started cribbing on the fence and this coupled with a couple of other signs made me get her tested for cushings. she had a high reading and once she had been on prascend for approx 3 weeks the cribbing stopped when she was in the field and gradually was less and less until i took the drain pipe off the door and never needed it again...so i believe that in her case it was cushings which made her crib and when this was treated she stopped....
 
One of ours cribs. He had awful ulcers but even though they were treated and are gone he still does it. He lives out 24/7 and is on a fibre diet and has been for 10 years +. Sometimes it's ingrained. He doesn't wear a collar as I don't like them but I had wondered if I was alone in that very glad to see I'm not.
 
Some horses are just programmed to start cribbing at some point in their lives, whether its another horse starts them off, a period of box rest and ensuing boredom, or ulcers.
I know from experience that it cannot always be managed by turnout - the one I had cribbed on fence posts so much he pulled them out of the ground once and flipped the electric fence onto his back!
If a horse really is a confirmed cribber/windsucker and it could not be controlled I think a collar is less cruel than letting the horse damage its teeth and/or injure itself.
 
WeeLassie said:
Some horses are just programmed to start cribbing at some point in their lives, whether its another horse starts them off, a period of box rest and ensuing boredom, or ulcers.
I know from experience that it cannot always be managed by turnout - the one I had cribbed on fence posts so much he pulled them out of the ground once and flipped the electric fence onto his back!
If a horse really is a confirmed cribber/windsucker and it could not be controlled I think a collar is less cruel than letting the horse damage its teeth and/or injure itself.
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I had one a few years ago that well windsucked more than cribbed. Was turned out24/7, with company. Didn’t have ulcers. No idea why she did it. Would prefer to stand In the field and crib on the fencing rather than eating the grass, she got very thin. Put a collar on and it helped.
 
bonny said:
As do lots of gadgets that people use on horses, I don’t think cribbing collars are any worse than a lot of things that we just expect horses to deal with......too many shortcuts and too many horses leading sad, un natural lives. The best way to deal with a cribbing horse is to turn it out in a large field.
Click to expand...
Couldn’t agree more! 25 horses on our yard and not one cribber in 23 years, why? Because they go out EVERY day NO MATTER WHAT. We do have 2 weavers, but they already did this when they came and it’s improved a lot since being with us. I agree collars should not be used, but as a previous poster said, the reason these horses are cribbing in the first place is what needs more attention!
 
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skint1 said:
I've done all I can to avoid my mare having to wear a collar, but if you're on a yard and are told to do it, you have little option but to comply or move, you'll find it hard to find a livery yard where your horse will be allowed to crib/weave/box walk etc without comment from other liveries or the YOs.
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We have had this from one yard owner and I sort of understood her point, as our gelding had done a fair bit of damage to fencing :o. However, I wasn't keen on the idea of him wearing a collar at all so had to have a think and come up with another solution. In the end, I bought dozens of electric fence attachments, stuck one on the top of every wooden post in the field, and ran a strand of electric tape round the top of our field. It worked really well, and completely stopped him crib biting. I should add, he had been treated for ulcers prior to this, but unfortunately the habit was just ingrained and he kept doing it (he first started when on box rest as a 6 year old). Interestingly, since we started fencing our fields like this, he has filled out and put weight on, so I can only assume it's been a good move! It's a far better (and kinder) solution than a collar, especially if you have an unhappy YO!
 
chocolategirl said:
Couldn’t agree more! 25 horses on our yard and not one cribber in 23 years, why? Because they go out EVERY day NO MATTER WHAT.
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I shared a yard with someone who put their horses out every day no matter what, 2 cribbed and the the other did a close approximation of it. I have my suspicions as to why their management led to it but they were different breeds, ages and all on a fibre only diet with lots of turnout.

My last pony as a kid cribbed-this was in the 80s.Looking back now am pretty sure it was ulcers. we tried to stop him (we were at livery-noons knew any better, he was out every day, 24/7 in winter) -he cribbed on everything, even did it on my head once. I used a collar then, wouldn't now-but would never buy another cribber/windsucker.
 
I, too don't like the collars. And I agree to treat the reason behind it to be the best.
However, I have first hand seen a 3 week old TB foal, seriously crib. His mother did not do anything, and I can't recall any others on the yard do so. It was the breeders first experience at such a young age. Although born normal, he turned out to be a poor, too quiet colt foal. As a yearling he had an operation, I can't remember what it is called, but something to do with the throat muscle?? Stopping him really doing it, but he did try given the chance.
He won four good races, so I suppose it was worth it.
 
Beausmate said:
Awful things. And those 'miracle collars' are a sure way to give your horse a headache on top of stressing it. I have seen a collar that looked like something from the Dark Ages used on a horse, it had a sprung plate with spikes underneath that pushed down when the horse cribbed and caused the spikes to press into the horse's throat. Barbaric and completely ineffectual.

My old boss had a horse that had had the muscle strip. Does that still go on?
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Ignorant question, what is the muscle strip?
 
Probably the same thing the the foal FM knew of had. A section of muscle (can't remember which) is removed from both sides of the neck so the horse can't arch up and pull back the right way to crib. With the horse my boss had, it affected the way he could use his neck to balance. He still went on to be a reasonable pointer, so I guess he worked it out. I never saw him attempt to crib once.

Forssell's procedure was the name of the surgery, now less drastic it seems http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/cribbing-horses-surgical-approach-treatment

And then you have that awful thing with the pig rings...
 
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Is cribbing (and all it's causes except perhaps cushings) exclusive to stabled horses?

If so, I often wonder why we stable them so much. Not even zoo animals are kept in such small boxes. Personally, I think the whole way we keep horses is outdated, the whole design needs an overhaul.
 
tallyho! said:
Is cribbing (and all it's causes except perhaps cushings) exclusive to stabled horses?

If so, I often wonder why we stable them so much. Not even zoo animals are kept in such small boxes. Personally, I think the whole way we keep horses is outdated, the whole design needs an overhaul.
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My boy cribs and he lives out 24/7, but before me he was in racing so obviously stabled then.

It’s something which I don’t think will go away now, even though he’s been treated for ulcers, is never stabled and always has food!
 
tallyho! said:
Is cribbing (and all it's causes except perhaps cushings) exclusive to stabled horses?

If so, I often wonder why we stable them so much. Not even zoo animals are kept in such small boxes. Personally, I think the whole way we keep horses is outdated, the whole design needs an overhaul.
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My connemara lived out all his life, i had him from a foal till he was six. He started crubbing seriously at 4 though even from a foal he was a 'nibbler' of anything hr could find, lead ropes, wood, brushes etc
 
My ex race mare wind sucked really badly. She used to do it whilst in training, but then went on to have 6 years as a broodmare, living out most of the time. I was then gifted her, she lived out a lot of the time with me, but was still a very determined windsucker, in and out, despite having a lovely spoilt life and getting a good diet etc. Sometimes it’s an ingrained habit. It did drive me mad (and destroyed a lot of fences/stable doors etc), but she was happy!
 
Fools Motto said:
I, too don't like the collars. And I agree to treat the reason behind it to be the best.
However, I have first hand seen a 3 week old TB foal, seriously crib. His mother did not do anything, and I can't recall any others on the yard do so. It was the breeders first experience at such a young age. Although born normal, he turned out to be a poor, too quiet colt foal. As a yearling he had an operation, I can't remember what it is called, but something to do with the throat muscle?? Stopping him really doing it, but he did try given the chance.
He won four good races, so I suppose it was worth it.
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I think foals cribbing is caused by ulcers and they have a problem they are born with this happened on a yard I worked on it was a lovely yard for the horses .
The mare was a calm and experianced mother he started in the first weeks of life .
I don’t know if you can give foals modern anti ulcer drugs I hope so.
I hate collars but I understand why they get used especially as it can be very difficult to find a livery yard who what their fences and doors trashed .
 
tallyho! said:
Is cribbing (and all it's causes except perhaps cushings) exclusive to stabled horses?
Click to expand...

No, I've known horses that had plenty of turn out crib or windsuck. When I was young, many years ago!, it was virtually impossible to get livery if you had a horse with any 'vice' as everyone thought they were catching. Fortunately we know much more about sterotypies now.
 
WeeLassie said:
Some horses are just programmed to start cribbing at some point in their lives, whether its another horse starts them off, a period of box rest and ensuing boredom, or ulcers.
I know from experience that it cannot always be managed by turnout - the one I had cribbed on fence posts so much he pulled them out of the ground once and flipped the electric fence onto his back!
If a horse really is a confirmed cribber/windsucker and it could not be controlled I think a collar is less cruel than letting the horse damage its teeth and/or injure itself.
Click to expand...

Knew horse that lived out 24/7, in company, but windsucked constantly. Colicked, wouldn't keep weight on, didn't interact with other horses at all as it would rather stand alone in corner and windsuck. Collar stopped the behaviour and you cannot imagine how delighted owner was when horse actually started grooming another horse and playing. So collars can have a place in helping stop ingrained behaviour.
 
It would be problemmatic if stopping the behaviour also exacerbated the digestive upset (acidity) that may be the reason for colic.
 
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