Cribbing due to gastric problems...

[Fergs152]

I recently bought a five year TB/Welsh x. He came to me in very poor condition, with various problems including a recent pelvic injury (although I don't know any history on how this occurred), worms, seriously underweight, bad teeth etc...

Slowly I have worked through these problems- wormed him, had teeth done, had the physio out plenty of times, he had three months off and then came back into work. He has been back in work for 7 weeks now and is coming along really well.

My last remaining issue is his cribbing. I knew he cribbed (supposedly occasionally- he was at huge yard as 3 year old and picked up habit there) when I took him on and as he was in a lot of pain with his hips and in a new, strange place I wasn't surprised that he was cribbing horrendously when he arrived. I moved him to a quieter yard after a couple of weeks with one other horse and he seems to prefer that.

I would not put him down as a worrier at all, he seems to cope with anything I try him with no concerns at all- in fact he seems to thrive on new things and challenges. He seems now to cribbing more again- he is doing it in the field as much as in the stable. He is currently stabled for a few hours during the day during which he has a feed and large haynet, the rest of the time he is out. I will swap them over in due course when weather turns so they are in at night and out during day. I should have ample turnout all winter which I feel is important for him.

He cribs as much in the field as in the stable which, perfectly understandably, is upsetting the people I keep him with! I will electrify the fences tonight and picking up a Miracle Collar for him as this apparently used to work on him (a traditional collar does not stop him at all). I believe it must be gastric related, and have also put him on Allen and Paige Calm and Condition as this contains probiotics which may help his digestive system. He also seems to have got to a certain weight and is no longer putting weight/condition on. Does anyone have any ideas/advice/past experiences of this type of cribbing? I feel the next step would be having the vet out to do some blood tests to see if he has stomach ulcers or some other digestive problem.

Apologies for rambling text! Thanks in advance…

 

[madhector]

I certainly wouldnt start putting a miracle collar on him, they are just cruel IMO. You seem to have the right routine for him which is great, I would start him on coligone and see how he goes, if that makes no difference at all then I am afraid you are probably fighting a loosing battle and I would just let him get on with it as it is obviously what he does.

Mine is a terrible cribber but I just let him get on with it, he had gastric ulcers in the past which we treated and now he is left with the habit unfortuently. But thats just him and he is happy enough

 

[kittykatcat]

I'd get him off anything with cereals in and just go for fibre fibre fibre. I cant recommend Winergy Equlibrium Condition highly enough! Its only based on fibre and oil, with no cereals, and has loads of different fibres in it which helps to do something to their gut - give their helpline a ring, they're really helpful!

Have you tried any boredom breakers? Perhaps chuck a snak-a-ball in the field even, if its feasible, with some high fibre cubes in it.

 

[Chestnuttymare]

i agree with madhector, the collar is horrible and has to be on so tight to make them stop. mine does it and is healthy with no teeth, gut, weight problems. the way i see it, is, if that is the worst vice she has then she is ok. better cribbing than bucking or rearing.

 

[Chestnuttymare]

oh and i agree with kitty, cut out the cereals too. winergy is brill. i have never seen mine enjoy anything as much and is looking great.

 

[monkeymad]

The other thing you could try is a feed supplement for windsuckers/cribbers. I always use feedmarks settlelex as mine cribs a little. It is not a vice which is copied so the other horses won,t 'catch' it, but I know how difficult it can be when other liveries don't understand this, good luck!!

 

[toffeesmarty]

I agree with others regarding collar- please don't use one they stop your horse doing what makes him happy.
I also agee with using Settlex. It doesn't remove the problem but it certainly improves. Have you also tried a magnesium based calmer? This has had the best effect for me.
Good luck.

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

I'd echo Coligone. There's a vast amount of research gone into its production and it is recommended by vets. If you read up on stereotypies (cribbing is one) you'll see the current thinking is definitely NOT to put collars etc on the horse. Horses begin stereotypical behaviour in repsonse to aspects of their environment that cause levels of stress they can't cope with, like polar bears weaving, weaving, weaving forever in tiny cages when they should be roaming thousands of square miles of empty ice. The stereotypical behaviour releases endorphins that allow the horse to tolerate the stress factors that started it in the first place. If you stop him doing it, he could well find another behaviour or you will have cut him off from his only source of internal "drug" to deal with it and you may find you have a very unhappy horse on your hands. The only problem with a constant stream of endorphins is that horses get hooked on them and can display the behaviour even if the original stress factors are removed or lessened. I'd leave him alone with his coping mechanisms but set about making his stabled time happier with (as people have already said) as many boredom breaking stuff as possible ie always something to chew on, lots and lots of fibre, different haynets tied round his stable, masses of turnout and maybe a mirror in his stable. All this should make him much happier so the stereotypical behaviour should lessen although I fear it will never disappear! God help the chocaholic whose OH takes ALL her chocolate off her during a BAD BAD time!!!!!

 

[Flibble]

My lad chewed wood very badly in the first 3 days of moving here so I did some reading up on it. I spent a lot of time with him put all his hay in small nets and hid treats carrot sticks pieces of apple in them got him a mineral lick and put him on NAF pink powders. Once I had this lot going I painted all chewed surfaces with Gel.
Its nearly 5 weeks now and he has completely stopped. I have dirtied up all wood surfaces so I can quickly spot a recurrence but so far so good. He even accepted a stable swap for 2 days while maintenance was carried out.

 

[Fergs152]

Thank you for all the response!

I spoke to my vet and he didn't think he was a likely candidate for gastric ulcers so recommended I stop him cribbing as best I can and if I see a dramatic weight loss/loss of condition after a few weeks it may be worth scoping him.

If I had him on my own land I would probably just let him get on with it, however he is living at a friends so that isn't an option. I don't want to risk upsetting them as it is such a perfect set up for him as he can be turned out all winter- I'd really struggle to find somewhere else around me that offers all year turnout.

The main problem is the fencing- he cribs so violently on them he is almost pulling them over!! Obviously they don't want their fencing wrecked and i don't want him to think that is an ok thing to do...

I did speak to a friend yesterday who had a cribber and had to use a collar but managed to get him to the point where she could just put a child's belt loosely around his neck and because psychologically he associated something around his neck with not being able to crib he didn't even try. So that is something to work towards in the long term!

I will 'decorate' his stable this weekend and see if that occupies his clever brain! He actually is much better in the stable then in the field- he tends to come in, eat and then sleep until I arrive to ride... I'd worry about putting toys in the field as the mare he is with is quite grumpy and I wouldn't want them to scrap over them... Its just such a mystery why he is worse in the field!!!

I have him on chaff with oil, D and H build up and A and P calm and condition with corn oil at the moment which he looks good on although he could do with carrying a little more weight... Should I cut out the build up and try winergy? Will that keep the weight on him?

I completely believe he is not stressed now but it is behaviour he learnt as a coping mechanism to previous stressful living conditions which has now just become a die hard habit...

Any more suggestions are very welcome...thank you for all the advice so far...

 

[MerryMaker]

Cereals can exaccerbate the problem, why not ring Winergy? I used the low on my mare when I first got her who used to crib, along side ad lib hay, she hasn't done it since I've had her and changed her management, and now she's on the medium but thats a different story, maybe you should ring Winergy and see what they should say x

 

[jac47]

mine is a cribber he use to wear a collar and it did stop him, but as soon as it was off he was off again. I'd forget the collar as it is cruel I use to call mine his choker. I don't even know where it is any more. I'd electrify the fence as this is better than any collar and just leave him be. I am not at all concerned about mine cribbing as I really don't think it does them any harm. I give mine coligone he cribs after food and occasionally in the field but that's all. Better a happy horse than a miserable one. If any one tells you that other horses will copy then they are mad. It's NOT TRUE.

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

I'd echo bayhorse - you could wrap electric fence tape round his favourite cribbing post. I bet he wouldn't do it again in a hurry, and it's no more cruel than any electric fencing. What I don't know is whether he would be able to work out that ALL posts might now zap him if he tries to crib on them, or just stay away from the 1 you electrified. Trial and error I think but you might be able to wrap his fave in real electric tape and just wrap white tape round the rest. Worth a try!

 

[Shiraz]

QR - I've not read all the replies so sorry if I'm duplicating or contradicting anything.

My new boy cribs. It was "mild" in his old home but when I got him back he cribbed for Scotland! He was underweight when I got him and I thought it might be related due to a build up of acid in his stomach. There is a theory that cribbing increases saliva production which neutralises the acid in their stomach.

I didn't want to put a collar on him either and wanted to give him time to settle in and get him on a high fibre diet. He was turned out as much as possible, had ad lib hay at nights and was fed 3x a day on a high fibre diet with no cerals. He got an antacid supplement, mint and Pink Powder (concentrated as probiotic). He also had licks for saliva production.

None of this made the blindest bit of difference. The vet was out and checked him over and took a blood test. They didn't think he has ulcers but I still got a referal to the vet hospital to get scoped. Unfortunately he wouldn't load at all so we've had to postpone that.

We've moved to our own yard and our field is electric taped so he can't crib when out. He wears a miracle collar in the stable. More because I was worried about the wear on his teeth, he's only 7 and his inscissors are badly worn.

My boy isn't fussed about getting his collar on. It's not that tight at all, having it on seems to be enough to stop him. He even puts his head down to get it on when he gets in his stable. I do think the "nut cracker" collars are cruel but I really don't have a problem with miracle collars when they are properly fitted and used to help the problem not mask it.

My lad is still on a high fibre diet, has licks and stable toys and is fed mint & pink powder. I think it's maybe a habit now rather then doing it to relieve any discomfort. I'm considering feeding him on Feedmark Settlex.

He's just had the sarcoid on his neck treated so when he's been in at night I've left the collar off him and cribboxed the stable. He's stopped cribbing on the stable door but will try it on the stable walls.

I like to think I've tried all that I can for him (barr the scoping which was his fault anyway!) and the vet passed him as healthy, he wouldn't be concerned about him so that just leaves me his teeth to worry about and he kinda needs them hence the collar.

You just have to do what is right for your horse and circumstances. Some YOs aren't so understanding about cribbers. If you haven't already I would definitely speak to your vet in the first instance and then try some feed lines re high fibre diets.

Good Luck!

 

[Fergs152]

Hi,

just to give you all an update- I have put a miracle collar on him...and its amazing!! It was fairly tight when it first went on, as its leather its given a lot already and I have found that I have been able to loosen it off so that it now is not tight at all.

Since having it on he has made no attempt to crib either in the field or the stable. He was kicked out hunting (told you he was accident prone!!) and was in a lot of pain with that for a few days but still didn't make any attempt to crib... He is eating well and has put on condition since wearing it (I think he is concentrating more on eating less on where to crib next!). I take it off whenever I am there and he doesn't seem to even consider cribbing with it off so I am hoping long term I can slowly wean him onto a belt etc (as I mentioned above)...

So although it may not be approved of or work for everyone I now have a happy, fatter horse who is no more stressed then when he could crib (although I never believed it was a stress thing for him- just a disgusting habit), a happy yard owner and a happy me as I'm not dreading the next phone call on what he has done next...