Crisis - will we ever get past the spooking?

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Natpillai

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Apologies in advance for this being so long, but I'm desperate for any advice so want to give full background!!

I'm having a bit of a crisis after this weekend's BD. I've had current horse for 2 1/2 years now. He's bred as a showjumper (Emilion & Darco lines) and has fantastic paces although when I got him he didn't know what to do with all the power so was a bit 'skitty' and person before me had been totally over-horsed, scared of the power so hung onto his mouth (which ended up cut and ulcered). Anyway, worked hard (6 months in hackamore) to correct that and build up a good relationship, started jumping him BS (low level) and did ok but stupid me got over-zealous with feeling all the scope and went too high, too soon. Basically knocked all his confidence with the showjumping as the canter wasn't good enough and I pushed him too fast for his brain to cope (not something I'll ever forgive myself for and I've had to live with the consequences).

Decided to drop him right back down again and although he was going ok, was very inconsistent (easy double clear one day, then eliminated at second fence the next). So I decided to go right back to basics with the flatwork - take a full year off the jumping and focus on really establishing the ground work (yes, realise I should have done this right at the start and did, to an extent, but having never had a horse with this amount of potential, stupidly got carried away and overdid it with the jumping).

Started having lessons with excellent instructor (still with her now) and really came on leaps and bounds. Started doing low level unaff dressage and going really well - judges love him and his paces are to die for. So decided to go BD and although he consistently gets over 60% he's capable of geting 70+ every time. The problem I have is spooking.

He's always been horrifically spooky (not sharp, as some people said about him, just looks at everything). I've done a lot of work getting him to move off my leg etc. and he'll do it fine at home, but out at a competition he just locks up (despite plenty of working in, during which he'll go great). He spooks at the boards, the judge, the markers, everything and turns into this incorrectly bent, tense in the back, crooked mess who's totally behind the leg. I've been trying so hard and getting him out as much as possible, putting spooky things around the arena at home to work him past etc. and my instructor has been helping me - working on shoulder-fore etc. to use if he's really spooking during a test.

Yesterday went and just did a prelim and 2 novices and after the prelim I was just ready to give up - went in and literally would not go closer than 2 metres to the boards. Most awful test ever with not a single straight movement. We ended on 55% - I realise this may not seem so bad to a lot of people but the only reason we even got that was due to the flashes of nice work he showed when circling, centre line (i.e. away from the boards) and the fact that he has nice paces. He did get better in the novice tests but I'm just getting so disheartened (and broke!) with every outing - mostly because he is such a talented horse and i find it so frustrating that he won't show that. I can't afford to keep doing 3 tests every time out just so that he *might* go ok in the last one and I really don't know what to do. I'm really getting fed up of seeing 'very nice horse with lots to offer - will be great once more established'.

Sorry, turned into a bit of a rant but I'm just desperate for any advice from anyone who's had to deal with a spooky horse that just won't let you ride it when it goes in! Is it time for me to give up and send him to someone better, or are there some helpful tricks you know of, or should I go to a clinic for a week or two, or try to go to a dressage rider's for a few weeks to really focus? I really really want to do the work myself (obviously with any help available) and we have such a good relationship now - I don't want to give up on him as I know it's in him and I'm working so hard on him - and he has come on so much but after a year of general disappointment that he's not showing his potential I'm at a loss and feeling extremely down hearted!!

Sorry this is so long - cookes and cream haagen dasz for those who get this far.... :)
 
I tend to think that spooking is either because the horse is genuinely green and needs to get the chance to get out and about and see stuff, or because the horse basically isn't listening to his rider (or of course it could be a combination of both!).

I wonder if you can identify with whether it might be greenness or him not listening and then work from there?

If greenness, there's lots of ways to get your horse out and about which aren't as expensive as going to shows. Maybe find some like minded friends and take it in turns going to their yards/ set up some dressage areans in their field and then work in there while your friends do distracting things around you? Maybe do a few group clinics?

If it's him not listening, then that may be a little more tricky as why is he not listening? Is it a physical comfort issue? Is it a training issue?, etc. If it were me, I'd see how I can break the problem down a bit more and fix it from there. For example, if he's just got a really short attention span, can you get his complete attention in the school doing some nice work for just one minute and then give him a break... then can you get it for 2 minutes, etc, etc.

Hope that helps? Maybe if you can figure out why he's spooking you'd be half way to solving the spookiness (easier said than done, I know! - but are there any patterns to it, etc? - maybe keep a diary of when he does it and look back on it for patterns?)

Good luck!
 
I don't think Emilions are known for being the most "user friendly" horses around, which is not to say you can't manage your problem, just to point out that some horses have natural "tendencies" which require more patience/different approaches. I have a horse from a Dutch line known to be super spooky - he's now pretty reasonable but it took some work and I still have to manage him carefully.

Is it only in the ring he gets tense? Does the behaviour come out any other time? What was he like showjumping? Have you tinkered with your warmup at all to see what gets him in the ring in the best state of mind? If you get after him a bit does it get worse or better? What is he like if you go to school in a strange ring?

Do YOU get anxious in the ring? Have you ever tried him with someone else, perhaps your instructor? I've quite often taken horses out for students who are having problems getting horses to settle for three reasons. One, if I can feel what's going on I can give more insight into what routine might work better. Two, if I can get the horse to improve at all it reassures the regular rider that the horse can do a bit better, which can help their tension level. And three, it often doesn't look as bad as it feels, which also helps the rider relax and feel less pressured about the situation.

How do you ride him in the ring? Do you just sit quietly and keep pushing him forwards? I find it can be a bit of a trick to "sit behind" a spooky horse and balance out what you can ask but it's worth it if the horse can have a few "supported" trips around the ring, even if they're not the most competitive.

Can you take him out and just "ride around" somewhere, without competing? Warm him up, get off him and put him away, take him out again, let him have a wander and a look around. Wait until he's absolutely relaxed then take him home. Then do the same thing, but with an aim to compete. Give yourself masses of time and be really honest with yourself whether or not he's relaxed (not just working okay, truly "let down").
 
Thanks Kelpie.

I don't think it's a greenness issue - he's been out and about loads (not just shows - done pleasure rides, general hacking all over, schooling at different arenas, xc schooling, clinics, group sessions, individual sessions, all sorts!!). There's no pattern to it (other than he does it all the time, at random things), and there's no malice in him at all.

I did used to get cross with him when, on the 20th time past, it was still as scary as the first, but have learned that there's no point losing my rag with him as this just exacerbates the problem.

I do lose his attention when he's looking at things, but in general he doesn't have a short attention span - can work for an hour and he really is a workman, loves being exercised and will go really well. In general, it's not like he's looking for distractions - he can have a horse galloping up and down the fence and won't bat an eyelid.

I have his teeth done regularly and his saddle and back checked about every 6 months. As I said, his mouth was a mess when I got him but this is all fixed now (and he has no objection to the contact any more) and his saddle fits well and is checked often. He has no soundness issues and never has had, and at home when he's working he's an absolute dream, which makes it even more disappointing when he goes out and it goes all wrong. I know that, initially, I would tense up in competition and of course this didn't help, but I have worked very hard and now try to approach it all as a schooling outing - I have numerous videos and can see that my riding has improved and I do stay relaxed on him, which is why yesterday was so disappointing - it was the most relaxed but firm that I'd been and he warmed up so well so I was gutted when he was so awful in the test.

Argh!!
 
Tarrsteps - agree Emilions aren't the best in terms of this particular trait (I know a few!!).

One thing I would like to do is get my instructor's daughter to take him out to a comp (she was on the youth olympic BD squad and rides him every few weeks for me) and I think that would go a long way to sussing out how much of it is me.

I think the really demoralising thing is that I've worked so hard on him and I look around at all these people who do naff all with their horses (OH included!) and yet just go out and win. Granted, that's showjumping and very much due to the type of horse and I would, no doubt, get bored if I didn't have to work, but just once I'd like to be able to say look, my hard work's paying off!!

Think my confidence (and pride) has just taken a bit of a battering...
 
My OH's Mare is exactly the same huge power and potential and the two of them have ended up loosing their confidence at 1.10m and beyond now she is stopping at even the simplist of uprights at 70 & 80cm. you CAN NOT make her do anything she doesn't want to in the ring especially if there are billboards around the arena. Spurs, whip voice, none make any difference and she does not do it anywhere else but in the ring, it's almost as if she knows she can make a show of you!! We're starting with a new trainer next week so should be interesting. But I have only sympathy with you. everywhere we go they have to do the lower class just to let her look round and even then there are no guarantees. I have thought of enlisting the help of a Horse communicator (don't laugh) for her as we've had vet, saddle, physio, teeth etc out and like you we're nearing broke, and desperate. The mare is homebred and has never had a tough day in her life, until all this has started..............it's awful when your at your wits end!!
 
Friend has a horse who would spoil his dressage tests due to spooking, she took him out to several jumping (low level fun stuff) at the same venue then returned to do a dressage comp two days later, and he was fine.
Perhaps mixing competition types up might help your boy?
 
Have just started trying to get him back out doing low level jumping, as a bit of a change (for me and him!). First show back he was phenomenal and loved it, and I thought we'd cracked it, but then next time out he was a total pain and got eliminated at the 5th. I seriously did only go out to have fun and even enter the rign like this now as I thought my competitive attitude was putting too much stress on him, but there doesn't seem to be one thing that is a key it just depends on the day!

Chermar - be interested to hear of any 'little gems' the new instructor might have!
 
Gud luck with him, i dont have any advice to offer, i just wanted to let you know that your not allone :)
my horse is verry similar iv had her for 3 years now and she can still be v spooky, not sharp spooky just v frustrating as i mainly sj her at bn/ disc level at the mo she can still go in v green and literally looks at everything, it can be a real issue when they are so buisy looking at a poster advertising horse feed they break into trot into the first fence :o i feel unable to move up untill we have overcome our spooky deamons, sometimes we have a breakthrough and then the next comp she goes back to being 4 again:rolleyes:
but i will keep trying as i love the grumpy chesnut beast and you never no oneday she may grow up :)
gud luck with your horse im sure you will get past his sillyness and be on winning form soon xx
 
The two things that come to mind for me are saddle fit and treating for ulcers. I had a horse that was the same way and addressed both of the those problems and the behavior changed dramatically.

I know you said you have been checking saddle fit, but I would 'try' another saddle, preferably trying something with a slightly wider tree. If you are using Medium, try medium-wide, etc. Sometimes saddles can 'appear' to fit, but when you are actually on their backs, they still pinch....setting up behavior issues.

Also treat the horse for ulcers. Ulcer-prone horses can exhibit all sorts of behavior issues, and can be particularly reactive/spooky to dumb things. Treat with either an ulcerguard type treatment also try B1 supplement added to the feed and see if that helps.

You would be surprised how often these types of behaviors can be related to the conditions above. Good luck!
 
My horse used to be like this, I am not sure if you are like me but the spooking used to make me tense causing him to spook even more. This was mainly due to the fact I wanted to do well. Like your horse, mine has nice paces and is very talented.
In the end, I used to take him out as much as possible, even if it was just to use another school. If it was a competition I would enter HC so that the % really didn;t matter and meant that I had no pressure either so could ignore the spooking and just ride through the test to the end.
After several trips like this he really started to settle and is now being placed everytime out BD Elementary with no sign of spooking. Even coped with the main arena at the area festival with flapping plastic and marquees!
Take the pressure off of you both and the spooking will go. When he does spook, ignore it and carry on ridng through the test. If you get tense, upset or cross they think there is something worth spooking at.
 
Thanks all for the above. DRSsh - agree with what you're saying re. saddle. I've had current saddler for a long time and he's always been fantastic but i do get your point about trying someone new, although physio is very thorough and has checked horse with saddle on as well and says all is fine.

What is the treatement for ulcers? Not something I'd thought of.

Just throwing this out there, but does anyone have any experience of a horse's eyesight affecting them like this? There are times when I wonder whether his eyes aren't quite right because he seems to need to look at things head on and the main trouble we have is when things are to the side of us (so, when jumping he will, without fail, spook at a fence as we go past, but point him at it and he'll jump it). He has no problem with water trays etc (again, in terms of jumping them - trotting past them is a different matter) and is as likely to stop at a x-pole as a spooky filler.

I think it would be worth getting his eyes checked but not sure how this would be done, what it would involve or even what they would need to look for. Or do you think I'm just trying to find excuses for what is just a natural trait in him?!
 
I feel for you - I also have a very spooky (ginger!) horse who is just starting to grow up and listen aged 11.....

What worked for me (and apologies if this sounds batty!!) is visualisation of a perfect spook-free test. For me it was almost as if when I conciously or subconciously thought ...is he going to spook at that banner?... then he did spook and if through "playing" my visualisation I eliminated even the iota of suspicion of a thought that he would spook then he wouldn't? Like a self fulfilling prophecy, if that makes sense. Whether I was subconciously tensing a fraction and anticipating a spook, I couldn't tell you. But it worked for me!


A book that helped was called "The Winning Feeling" by an American GP dressage rider whose name escapes me, sorry.
 
Dear Nat
I have had this experience with a horse that had a cataract. As the cataract got worse so did the spooking. I was only interested in dressage so this was a problem. I started off by putting him on an instant calmer to start only on show days (global herbs supercalm). As time went on and he got used to his failing eyesight I reduced it and he eventually became rideable without a calmer.
I think that it can really dent their confidence if their eysight starts to fail and slowly fades. You can see a cataract in the right light, its like a clouding in the centre of the eye around the edges.
I would recommend the supercalm for any reason, although you lose a little forward momentum it can take the stress out of going out :-).
Dont know how to do the proper smilies anymore, so if anyone can tell me I would be grateful :-D
 
tractorgirl said:
A book that helped was called "The Winning Feeling" by an American GP dressage rider whose name escapes me, sorry.
Click to expand...

Jane Savoie. :) There's also a man named Robert Schinke who has written a couple of "riding specific" sports psychology books along the same line.

Definitely, vision can be a factor. We're still not able to accurately judge horses' eyesight but advances in the field would suggest there are a lot more horses with vision problems than we thought. There was a case of a race horse not long ago that was completely blind but had been out running and doing well. They only found out post-mortem after she ran through a track rail. :(

I've also seen a couple of situations where people tried to save a horse's failing vision during which the horse was very spooky, but when they finally gave up and the horse went blind in the eye the spookiness subsided. Of course, there could have been a pain component, too.

I had a horse that was unrideably spooky at dawn or dusk. (He had a bit of a spook in him anyway but even after he grew out of it generally, I wouldn't make it around the ring in half light conditions.) I don't know if that was vision related or to do with prey instinct, but it shows how specific the whole thing can be.

Even weirder, I had an extremely tense horse to ride who turned out to have an underlying herpes infection. (Like shingles or cold sores in people, apparently horses can harbour a subclinical infection.) One of his "symptoms" was an unusually high incident of corneal ulcers - he had 3 over a couple of years - from very minor scrapes, which might have suggested some effect on his vision. I also did some reading and apparently herpes can affect both neurological function and general sensitivity so who knows exactly how it might have been affecting him. It was only discovered because we had a completely OCD vet who wouldn't let it go.

I'm not saying your horse has herpes, btw :D, just that there are more things out there than we know about. As discussed, almost ANYTHING can make a horse spooky because it's merely an manifestation/release of tension for that particular horse. Another might buck or rear or simply shut down.

The saddle is a very good place to start. Even if the saddle technically fits it might be a "feedback" loop issue where he gets a bit tense and "high headed" (even if he doesn't invert) when he's worried, which changes the shape of his back, which makes the otherwise okay saddle "grab" him somewhere. It's quite a common loop. It can also work for teeth - he gets a little in your hand, something tweaks him, he goes. Obviously when he's more relaxed you'd see less of the behaviour but not necessarily for the reasons you'd think!
 
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