Critic please ... be gentle!!!

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Quartz

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Could you please take a look at this video, I would appreciate some tips on what you all think I'm doing wrong and how to correct it please. I know I have a habit of leaning forward (v. ugly). Also is he working enough from behind? Thanks

Hope this link works!!

 
OK, you look like you are propping him up with your arms, I don't think he could lean any more on his hands. This is pulling you out of the saddle, causing you to lean forward. It would take a very strong (Physically) person to be able to sit straight on a horse that is leaning that hard. I'd be tempted to sit back, and drop him on his nose a few times.. There is NO WAY you can carry a horse that big and it's bad manners to lean that hard - don't tolerate it... If he leans YOU LET GO. He'll soon learn that if you lean you fall over.

He's very on the forehand so you need to get his bum under him. Lots of walk trot walk transitions will help this.

Perhaps if you rode a well schooled horse on a lesson you would know what it should feel like, and then have something to work towards..

HTH

BnBx
 
Hello!

Yes i would agree that the horse is very on the forehand and needs alot more impulsion. He is tracking up but only just and dragging his heels somewhat- i think he could make a much nicer shape if he got his bum under him a bit!

You dont seem to be tipping forward too much- it more looks like you really need to keep your weight down in your seat and heels- if you look they are moving alot rather than being in one position (not terribly though!).

I also think you need to relax a bit more as you look quite stiff, especially in your shoulders and upper arms. If you were a bit more giving in your hand and riding more relaxed and more with the horses movement (if you look your hands are quite fixed in one position) then you may find the horse softens up and comes a bit rounder but it does seem like he may be pulling a bit.

Other than that all looks good... nice horse!

hopefully not too harsh :)
 
Thanks, thats actually so helpful you won't believe!!! I basically cannot ride softer with the hands other than in warm up as he just pulls sooo much. I find it a real struggle to stay in the saddle as he is head down and pull. So glad I was not just being c**p, and you can see he pulls. I am going to try the let go tip to see how that goes. Funnily enough he is not so bad in the warm up, but once we do an actual exercise off he goes pulling!!!! So very hard to look relaxed when fighting with him. He is a lot worse when jumping, I am going to try and get that video put up next week after my next lesson.

Thanks both of you, very insightful. Great help and something to work towards.
 
Unable to view video for some reason. From the picture alone he is leaning on the forehand. Bend your elbows. If the rein needs to be lengthened to achieve this, then do it. Imagine you've got heavy weights on your elbows. Carry a schooling whip. Alternate strides, flick behind your leg, get him listening to you.:)
 
You can't fight a horse -- they way 500kg you weigh in the region of 60... there's no point fighting... He needs to jump more and I think he's got into the habit of using you to prop him up... He's being rude. Get 2 schooling whips if necessary and get him jumping forward. Remember if something you do has no effect then do something different...

BnBx
 
You need to bend your elbow and give and take with the reins more fexible in elbows will make him softer and more leg on when he really leans a pony club kick give as wake up call nice horse though good luck with him
 
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I'm afraid the problem is the teaching. Very much like the BHS here, where instructors have people riding with reins far too short and arms consequently are far too straight with the poor rider being tipped too far forward and the horse going along on its forehand with its nose poked out and leaning on the bit. You will never get anywhere with that kind of tuition. You need to lengthen your reins, relax your shoulders and use the strength of your back to keep you sitting vertically. Let your elbows relax at your waist and have a straight line from the elbow to the bit. All the softness comes right from your shoulders that act like a pivot, giving and adjusting according to the feel you get down the reins. If the horse is heavy in the hand give him a pull back (half halt) and then immediately give as he softens. Ask him to come back to you but then drop him if you feel him starting to lean forcing him into self carriage. This all happens in split seconds and you have to learn to catch him BEFORE he leans rather than waiting for it to happen. The constant pull you currently have is no good for either of you. I bet his mouth is numb! Horses ar forced to become this heavy by too short reins and ungiving straight arms. All horses can very quickly and easily be taught to go lightly and in self carriage as soon as you abandon this all too common method of teaching.
 
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Wagtail said:
I'm afraid the problem is the teaching. Very much like the BHS here, where instructors have people riding with reins far too short and arms consequently are far too straight with the poor rider being tipped too far forward and the horse going along on its forehand with its nose poked out and leaning on the bit. You will never get anywhere with that kind of tuition. You need to lengthen your reins, relax your shoulders and use the strength of your back to keep you sitting vertically. Let your elbows relax at your waist and have a straight line from the elbow to the bit. All the softness comes right from your shoulders that act like a pivot, giving and adjusting according to the feel you get down the reins. If the horse is heavy in the hand give him a pull back (half halt) and then immediately give as he softens. Ask him to come back to you but then drop him if you feel him starting to lean forcing him into self carriage. This all happens in split seconds and you have to learn to catch him BEFORE he leans rather than waiting for it to happen. The constant pull you currently have is no good for either of you. I bet his mouth is numb! Horses ar forced to become this heavy by too short reins and ungiving straight arms. All horses can very quickly and easily be taught to go lightly and in self carriage as soon as you abandon this all too common method of teaching.
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Thanks for the helpful comments, will try lengthening my reins and bending elbows. Do you have any good exercises to help with this? I don't get told any of this by my instructor which is why I wanted to post a video on here. When you say drop him when he starts to lean, do you mean let the reins lengthen more so he has to catch himself? I really want to get us working well together, so really am very interested with all tips, exercises and critic.
 
If you lengthen your reins a bit you'll be able to get your hands nearer to you and your bottom deeper in the saddle, if he starts to lean push your hands forward quickly about oh, um, 4 to 6 inches so that the reins go suddenly longer and the contact is lost - this will probably cause him to stumble. What you need to do is ask him to sit, but you can't do this unless you can get your weight backwards. (Hence lengthening your reins). If you could start to think about getting him to sit down more, by using transitions or even rein back into trot/ canter (although not everyone agrees with this technique) anything to lift his front end then if he does snatch you just let the reins go forward for a split second so he knows you are not there to carry him...

Would your instructor get on him for a bit to see if they could start the process off for you? Cos I think this would help you more than anything...

BnBx
 
Quartz said:
Thanks for the helpful comments, will try lengthening my reins and bending elbows. Do you have any good exercises to help with this? I don't get told any of this by my instructor which is why I wanted to post a video on here. When you say drop him when he starts to lean, do you mean let the reins lengthen more so he has to catch himself? I really want to get us working well together, so really am very interested with all tips, exercises and critic.
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It's not a big movement with the reins, it's just the fingers. Rather than constantly hanging on and having a heavy weight in your hands take a tug back with the fingers and immediately release. At first it may have to be a strong tug back to match the weight he is using against you but then immediately release. Take another half halt the moment you feel him starting to lean.

I'll try to explain why you need to lengthen your reins. Your horse should ideally be working over his back into a soft contact on the bit, flexing at the poll with his nose on the vertical. If you look at how short your reins are in the video, he would need to be an advanced dressage horse to acheive that as only at that level is the head carried so high with the nose still on the vertical. Your horse could not possibly acheive that which is why he is being forced to lean on you. He is not being rude at all. He has been given no option because of how you are being taught to ride. In order to lighten he needs more space and this is done by two things: firstly by lengthening the rein to a length that it is POSSIBLE for him to acheive what you want from him, and secondly, by eliminating the tug of war that has arisen between you.
 
blitznbobs said:
If you lengthen your reins a bit you'll be able to get your hands nearer to you and your bottom deeper in the saddle, if he starts to lean push your hands forward quickly about oh, um, 4 to 6 inches so that the reins go suddenly longer and the contact is lost - this will probably cause him to stumble. What you need to do is ask him to sit, but you can't do this unless you can get your weight backwards. (Hence lengthening your reins). If you could start to think about getting him to sit down more, by using transitions or even rein back into trot/ canter (although not everyone agrees with this technique) anything to lift his front end then if he does snatch you just let the reins go forward for a split second so he knows you are not there to carry him...

Would your instructor get on him for a bit to see if they could start the process off for you? Cos I think this would help you more than anything...

BnBx
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I did get her to school him a bit, but stopped once I saw I was paying for her to jump him once or twice in an hours lesson where she was also teaching other people. So it just made no difference. Maybe she didn't do this in dressage so may get her to work him to see if it makes a difference here, and actually say this is something I want her to concentrate on. Thanks for these tips am going to get working on it all as am determined to get it right.

I'm looking forward to trying lots of these tips on Thursday with him, it should be interesting!! Once I think we are progressing I will repost to ask how everyone thinks its going. However, am also going to post a vid of me jumping next week with him!!!
 
Nice horse - can't see him leaning on you too much? Would certainly not call him naughty.

As others have already said, your arms and hands are too fixed, you need to have more bend in your elbows so you have more of an elastic contact. Easier said than done though I know - I have to really focus on carrying my hands. He is on the forehand - a bit more leg and sorting out your contact would be a good place to start. Can't see the need for a schooling whip myself- think that would be a bit nasty.
 
OP mine used to be just like yours, check out this vid it's v similar (and much much worse!!):



Now he's like this:

154813_10150320294860117_829540116_15623382_73965_n-1.jpg


I don't think anyone has mentioned in the replies, you need LEG! Lots and lots of leg. It says "get OFF my hand". I don't know how he is responding to your leg cos I don't really see you using them, if he's not quick off the leg you need to get him to be by giving him a squeeze, if you get nothing a quick flick with a long whip until he goes off your leg instantly. I see you already have spurs on, these will help you, if you get him to relate him leaning on your hand with a dig he will stop and start carrying himself!

Sit UP, create a frame for him, don't allow him to pull you forward, you need to relax your inner thigh too it looks tight, I was just like this because when a horse is weighing a ton in your hand it's so damn hard to ride properly and it's hard work but you have to stick at it (even though frequently you will feel like crying with the strain as I did!!). Don't let him get you nagging with your leg and making you tight so you can't absorb his movement. It's tough but it's doable!

Mine was so bad I had knots in my reins because even with gloves on, the sheer pull he'd put on me would pull them through my hands. Trying to keep hold of them would make my hands and therefore my arms tight.

And believe me your lad looks nowhere near as front loaded as mine was (and is physically i.e. conformation wise), and mine weighs a LOT more than 600 kilos so if I can get mine light and nice anyone can!!!

Nice horse OP and if your instructor can't get on him for you and get him up off his forehand to show him and you what's needed, I'd look for another one! xxx
 
What i see is your horse rushing from the spur onto the forehand, i like that you are not fussing with your hands. I would remove the spurs and learn to ride the horse more from your calf, this will engage the quarters better and lighten the front end.

You can see from the clip of you jumping that your horse has better self carriage than is being shown on the flat.

Open the hips, relax the thigh, lighten your foot in the stirrups and offer contact with the calves and seatbones, then try to relax your back.

I am not sure why your instructer wants you sitting to a trot with no slef carriage either.
 
skewby said:
I don't think anyone has mentioned in the replies, you need LEG! Lots and lots of leg. It says "get OFF my hand".
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Skewby, i think it is quality over quantity with the leg. I think contact and effective aids will be much more effective.
 
Facinating read thanks OP for posting this because my cob is a dead weight in my hands and I'm struggling to find a way to stop it!! Had differing advise from 2 instructors and neither worked so will try the things on here. Thanks very much.

Lovely horse btw. ;)
 
I had the same problem with my horse hanging on me - he was a b*gger for it.

I do a lot of up and down transitions (seldom go the entire way round the school without at least one transition), small circles with an alternating inside and outside bend to get those hind legs under him, LOT of riding without stirrups to sort my own position and am now slowly introducing lateral work (you get a lovely upward transition to trot after a couple of steps of shoulder-in on a circle).

Your horse has a lovely rhythm - that is a very good start!

To relax your arms, 'open' your chest. Imagine you need to fill your lungs with as much air as you can - this will make you sit straighter and move your shoulders back. And breathe in and out. You can't then fix your elbows because your upper body will be flexible.
 
There lots of good advice on here i have a cob 16.2 im 8 stone wet and boy does he lean if i let him must remember engine at back the front wont come good until engine started i ride with longer reins and i do move my hands give and take shoulder in lots and lots of transtions and when he really leans sharp kick sending him forward but i dont wear spurs and refuse to i feel he won if i do and i ride him in loose ring snaffle for schooling and carry schooling whip. I must say he never does it now only when really tired but thats taken lots of schooling and not letting get away with once
 
I think you need to be firmer!
Stick your boobs out and bend your elbows. I find really putting them against my sides helps mine because once they stop flapping they bend!
Also I would take the spurs off, *Some* horses run away from them or back off. If when you put your leg on he doesn't respond, a sharp tap! Loads of transitions and loads of reinforcing this message. Good luck :)
 
Jimbol said:
What i see is your horse rushing from the spur onto the forehand, i like that you are not fussing with your hands. I would remove the spurs and learn to ride the horse more from your calf, this will engage the quarters better and lighten the front end.

You can see from the clip of you jumping that your horse has better self carriage than is being shown on the flat.

Open the hips, relax the thigh, lighten your foot in the stirrups and offer contact with the calves and seatbones, then try to relax your back.

I am not sure why your instructer wants you sitting to a trot with no slef carriage either.
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Interesting point about the spurs. I don't honestly feel I need them with him as he does just rush away from them and yes then I end up pulling him back more. It seems counteractive to me, but she insists I put them on for dressage.

Didn't realise you could see the short clip of me jumping him, didn't bother puttingit up as its soo short and was waiting to put up a proper one. Again for critic and help. Interesting what you have said about it though.

Honestly, shes not the best instructor, but she is also my YO and the only instructor at the yard. Yes I could look for another yard but really the politics of being in a small country village and moving my horse away would be a nightmare.
 
Wagtail said:
It's not a big movement with the reins, it's just the fingers. Rather than constantly hanging on and having a heavy weight in your hands take a tug back with the fingers and immediately release. At first it may have to be a strong tug back to match the weight he is using against you but then immediately release. Take another half halt the moment you feel him starting to lean.

I'll try to explain why you need to lengthen your reins. Your horse should ideally be working over his back into a soft contact on the bit, flexing at the poll with his nose on the vertical. If you look at how short your reins are in the video, he would need to be an advanced dressage horse to acheive that as only at that level is the head carried so high with the nose still on the vertical. Your horse could not possibly acheive that which is why he is being forced to lean on you. He is not being rude at all. He has been given no option because of how you are being taught to ride. In order to lighten he needs more space and this is done by two things: firstly by lengthening the rein to a length that it is POSSIBLE for him to acheive what you want from him, and secondly, by eliminating the tug of war that has arisen between you.
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I am finding this all very interesting, and think I have quite a bit a work he ahead of me but am looking forward to getting started. I do hate the tug of war!!!
 
jsr said:
Facinating read thanks OP for posting this because my cob is a dead weight in my hands and I'm struggling to find a way to stop it!! Had differing advise from 2 instructors and neither worked so will try the things on here. Thanks very much.

Lovely horse btw. ;)
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Thanks, I was actually pretty scared about what people would say about my riding, but so far its just really helpful.

Yeah, he's great. Hes only coming up to 7 this year so he can be a bit cheeky lets say. However, he hasn't got a nasty bone in his body. I just want to make sure I get it right with him and don't ruin him as I often see people writing on here.
 
Quartz said:
The Vendee (West France).
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We're between Poitiers and Parthenay, on the borders of 79 and 86. Small world! How do you find the french instructors? Some are very different from what we're used to in England... Not better or worse, just different!

I commend you for asking for help and agree that you're not a bad rider. You just need 'tweeking'....
Is he a Selle Francais?
 
skewby said:
OP mine used to be just like yours, check out this vid it's v similar (and much much worse!!):



Now he's like this:

154813_10150320294860117_829540116_15623382_73965_n-1.jpg
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Wow! What a difference. But have a look at the two pictures, and the length of your reins. In the first picture your reins are MUCH shorter (about ten inches in fact), yet he is sticking his nose out. This was the point I was trying to make earlier about the way we are taught to ride and to keep shortening our reins. Once you give your horse the SPACE to round up, he will do. And I agree about the leg thing, but with some of the TB types, too much leg and you are out of the arena. In these cases, it is all about your seat and quiet, soft hands.
 
Quartz said:
Thanks, thats actually so helpful you won't believe!!! I basically cannot ride softer with the hands other than in warm up as he just pulls sooo much. I find it a real struggle to stay in the saddle as he is head down and pull. So glad I was not just being c**p, and you can see he pulls. I am going to try the let go tip to see how that goes. Funnily enough he is not so bad in the warm up, but once we do an actual exercise off he goes pulling!!!! So very hard to look relaxed when fighting with him. He is a lot worse when jumping, I am going to try and get that video put up next week after my next lesson.

Thanks both of you, very insightful. Great help and something to work towards.
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I would go with blitzandbobs my mare used to be a huge leaner, you want to almost gather him up when he leans so then just slip the reins, you can't carry him, he has to carry you, try it at walk first though! you need to slip the reins quite a lot so he loses all contact with you, he will then pick himself up and when he does, you need to pick up a 'normal' contact, keep your wrists nice and soft (they are quite tense, but I understand that leaners don't help in this!) the second he leans again, gather yourself let him lean fully, then drop! He won't like it, and will soon get the picture that it does him no good to lean! To help with his carriage do lots of transitions, again I would for the moment keep these in walk trot and halt.

Be religeous, keep slipping the reins everytime when he leans, he looks lovely and when you nail his carriage you will both come on leaps and bounds. :)
 
snoopyinfrance said:
We're between Poitiers and Parthenay, on the borders of 79 and 86. Small world! How do you find the french instructors? Some are very different from what we're used to in England... Not better or worse, just different!

I commend you for asking for help and agree that you're not a bad rider. You just need 'tweeking'....
Is he a Selle Francais?
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I'm only an hour from Poitier, so yes a small world indeed!!!

I do find some different, well from what I remember of England anyway. Or maybe I have just fallen onto the ones who don't seem to want to correct you so you ride very well and just say your doing it wrong with no explanation as to why!!!!! No, thats mean, shes not that bad my instructor.

Yes hes a Selle Francais.
 
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