Cross Breeds

[TheresaW]

Just a musing really, but what dogs could/would make good crosses. This has come from reading the post about the Akita x Sharpei, and people far more knowledgeable than me saying they couldn’t understand why anyone would want to cross the two. I have no experience at all of the sharpei, and only know of one Akita who lives up the road and occasionally see out and about. Also, there was one about a Collie x Husky, which had very mixed responses. (I have one of each, but not sure how they would together). I know poodles seem to be popular dogs to cross with, and I know of 2 crossed with labs that are lovely dogs. I also don’t know any personally but Husky/malamute seems to be quite common, but I think they are quite similar dogs in lots of ways, size apart, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Husky/GSD also seems popular, am I right in thinking that is partly where the Inuit has come from?

I saw a fb post shared today that was selling Retriever/GSD mixes, I think that is what prompted me to write this post. I like both breeds, but would they make a good cross?

 

[CorvusCorax]

People need to forget about looks and do some research on the breeds and what their purpose is or was.

Is the breed designed to work with/alongside people, or remotely? Or completely independently and not inclined to be 'into' people at all.
Is it bred to retrieve? Hunt? Chase? Kill? Run fast? Pull weight? Swim? Go down holes? Herd (round up or drive/drove/patrol?) Guard? In what way guard? From what or from whom?

Akitas and Shar Peis are both notoriously hard to read.
They are both ornamental guarding, territorial breeds, one person dogs and prone to same-sex aggression. That's why a lot of people were not surprised by the poster's experience with a mix of such dogs.
I like them both, but I know what their traits can be.

No amount of training overrides genetics, that's why Chihuahuas don't pull sleds and why St Bernards don't do so well in agility.

Crossbreeding can amplify character defects and health problems, outcrossing doesn't always work...poodles and labs are both prone to hip dysplasia for example.
As are retrievers and GSDs. If neither parents come from generations of low scoring stock, it's a crapshoot.

 

[kimberleigh]

Imo, more important than the breeds themselves which are involved, are the parents and their bloodlines.

Plus the experience/motive of the person breeding them, the market they're aimed at, and perhaps most importantly of all the owner who takes them on!!

I have a Cockapoo - who would not be a first time dog by any means, but for totally different reasons than my mastiff/mix males wouldnt be.

I have a Bandog (mastiff mix) female who would make the perfect starter dog for anyone with half an idea of how to look after a dog.

I think many mixes are done so without any thought, for example mixing a breed with a natural suspicion of strangers (will use Akita as example as has been mentioned already) with a breed with very high prey drive (will use Collie as example as again been mentioned) could give you a litter of very highly strung dogs with little tolerance for things that move, and a propensity to want to chase and bite...if the Akitas suspicion shines through then those "things" may be humans! If you couple that with a breeder who hasnt chosen stable/well balanced dogs with known pedigrees - and sell to owners who have never owned a high drive dog before then you could end up with a disaster!!

Im a big fan of mixed breeds but it has to be done right

 

[KittenInTheTree]

It would be nice to see the various flat faced breeds outcrossed and improved so that they can breathe normally.

 

[Clodagh]

It would be nice to see the various flat faced breeds outcrossed and improved so that they can breathe normally.

But not with beagles, why cross a hunting hound with a health impaired lap dog? And 'puggles' are the uglist result ever, although I am predisposed to like dogs, puggles look like they fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Why breed a dog that can't function as a dog? If a dog can't breathe, why is it bred from?
And more importantly, why pay thousands for it to boot

You have to go through a lot of generations of dogs to do a successful outcross project.
Even in a simple case of show vs work in the same breed there's surplus in every litter. Is it worth the wastage?
We're not likely to run out of dogs anytime soon and the rescues are full to bursting.

 

[TheresaW]

What would you breed them out with? Are beagles being commonly used?

My boss has a British Bull dog. He’s 10 months old now. A few months ago they took him to a fun dog show where he won the waggiest tail class. His kids enjoyed it so much, they found another show to take him to. It was only when they arrived they realised it was a serious bull dog show, but entered him anyway. They were asked by the judges if he’d had an operation on his nose which he hasn’t, and the judges were impressed that his breeder had bred for health rather than looks, he didn’t win anuthing mind. A few weeks later he had some discharge from his nose so off the vets, vet asked the same question. It’s nice to know breeders are breeding for health rather than show looks.

 

[ester]

pugs are regularly crossed with beagles.

some breeders do but if they are breeding breeds who have many inherent problems it's still pretty difficult for them to be truely healthy. Met someone recently who claimed to be doing so for frenchies, yes they were health tested but the bitch still had stenoic nares and didn't sound too great.

The only successful outcrossing program I know of is for dalmations, but that was only a single gene to sort out.

 

[PapaverFollis]

It wouldn't be a popular view but I'd like it if dog breeds were lumped together into types and crossing encouraged within those types. So all spaniels. All collies. Etc etc. You could have classification shows where they were sorted into breeds... or something. Almost a bit more like horse breeding, breeding for purpose and type rather than being fanatical about closed genetics and splitting breeds up based on the littlest traits. Crossing wildly different breeds can have some odd results though. I have a "sprocker" who is just a generic spangle and a "sprollie" who is mad as a box of frogs. He's a great pet dog for me but I met his litter sister by chance once and she was nervy and aggressive, suspect an unsympathetic (mostly to the collie traits) upbringing...

If you get a pedigree brace yourself for the worst traits of the breed... get a cross, brace yourself for the worst traits of both. Know what you might get and do work for a good outcome.

I wouldn't want an Akita x Shar pei... but I wouldn't want either of those pedigree breeds either. Flat faced breeds and those utterly riddled with genetic health issues would probably be best not bred at all any more.

I don't expect anyone would agree with me on much of this. :lol: Nevertheless it is what I think.

 

[CorvusCorax]

In Europe the four types of Belgian shepherd are interbred.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

But not with beagles, why cross a hunting hound with a health impaired lap dog? And 'puggles' are the uglist result ever, although I am predisposed to like dogs, puggles look like they fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.

I agree, outcross the brachycephalic types but carefully. Puggles (what a ridiculous name!) can be quite cute, but it’s illogical to mix those 2 breeds.

I don’t think expecting the worst traits when getting a pedigree is correct. Out of my four springers, 3 have been easy, well-behaved dogs, same as the other three I’ve had a lot to do with.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I don't mean to expect the worst traits as a default, of course many dogs will not have them... but it is wise to be ready for them and be honest about being able to deal with them. Prepare for them and start training early before you know whether they will show or not... e.g. work hard early on recall with a breed that has a tendency to be a bog off dog. Or socialise carefully with a breed that has a tendency for dog aggression or nervousness. Or work on desensitization to fast movement in a young collie (thinking car chasing behaviours) etc etc ideally you'd do everything with every dog but breed traits give an idea of where to set priorities.

Many individuals will not show the worst traits of their breed or their parents breeds but it just makes sense to consider what those traits are and prepare and train accordingly. Pedigree and crossbreed... with crossbreed you have to consider more possible traits.

 

[vallin]

Diasy is a 'pointador', lab x gsp (personally I just go with mongrel ) as the MiL wanted a dog with the steadiness of a lab but less prone to run to fat and to common breed health problems like hip dysplasia. At 3 yo with a lot of work from myself and my OH she is nearly there. However, what the MiL didn't appreciate was that the cross breed, as well as inheriting physical features from the gsp, would also be equally likely to inherit behavioural ones, i.e significantly more go!

Personally I think that the lab/gsp cross is one that actually works really well, and for us as young, active people she is a fantastic dog who will swim/walk/run/scramble all day but also quite happily have a small child curl up with her. But, I think it is a cross that works well because the breeds share a lot of physical similarities and, although bred for slightly different purposes, are both bred to work closely alongside humans.

I'd echo what a posted above said and say (not limited to cross breeds), when breeding you need to expect the worst characteristics of both dogs involved and then decide if that will still be something you want to work with.

 

[Clodagh]

If you get a pedigree brace yourself for the worst traits of the breed... get a cross, brace yourself for the worst traits of both. Know what you might get and do work for a good outcome. .

I agree with you here. I had a kelpie x dobermann in Australia and while he was a wonderful and faithful dog he was very guardy and reactive.
Trouble is people don't even think what pure breeds are bred for (OMG, my terrier digs holes!) let alone crosses.

 

[CorvusCorax]

WRT to the LabxGSP - if the parents and their parents weren't tested, with low scores, then there is no less chance of hip dysplasia than either pure breed. The mean BVA hip score for a GSP is about the same as for a Lab, as far as I am aware.

 

[HeyMich]

We have a splab (lab x springer) and she's awesome.

Brilliant family dog, very gentle, easy to train (from the lab side, presumably), but has enough of a spring that she goes hill running with OH for hours on end (I also think OH is crossed with a springer!). She's 12 now, and still going strong! Our previous pure breed labs and retrievers were all slowing down or dead by 12, so I'm hoping the cross-breed influence means she's got many more happy years ahead.

We refer to her as a love-child, as she was definitely a happy accident, and not a designer breed! Great cross though, and suits our family down to the ground.

 

[vallin]

WRT to the LabxGSP - if the parents and their parents weren't tested, with low scores, then there is no less chance of hip dysplasia than either pure breed. The mean BVA hip score for a GSP is about the same as for a Lab, as far as I am aware.

Oh, I'm well aware. Her logic behind getting the cross was... interesting Thankfully it's worked out so far though given that Daisy lies like a frog I forsee arthritis in her future!

 

[Clodagh]

Oh, I'm well aware. Her logic behind getting the cross was... interesting Thankfully it's worked out so far though given that Daisy lies like a frog I forsee arthritis in her future!

That is supposed to be an indicator of good hips.

 

[vallin]

That is supposed to be an indicator of good hips.

That's interesting, in which case I shall be less concerned by her weird arrangements! ��

 

[{97702}]

Ha I have it easy - I have 2 mongrels but I just call them lurchers

I saw a Dalmatian x husky on a local rescue site, I did wonder what on earth inspired anyone....

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I saw a Dalmatian x husky on a local rescue site, I did wonder what on earth inspired anyone....

they wanted more stamina!? no thats not it. trainability! no hang on a minute. speed! nope-oooh, I know-predisposition to being questionable to other dogs! do I win?

just seen a husky x border collie x staffie on a running group. has failed in a pet home (no **** Sherlock) due to being too full on with other dogs, destructive in the home and because it cannot be worn out and is too strong.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Why would it not?!

 

[meleeka]

I have a good old fashioned mongrel. She looks like a Parsons Terrier and I’ve even said that’s what she is before as it’s just easier. She was bred by a hobby breeder and all his puppies have amazing temperaments. She cost me £50 10 years ago when designer crosses hadn’tbeen invented. I’m amazed at what people will cross and how much they sell them for, and equally amazed at what people will pay because somebody has thought up a cute name for the cross.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I have a good old fashioned mongrel. She looks like a Parsons Terrier and I’ve even said that’s what she is before as it’s just easier. She was bred by a hobby breeder and all his puppies have amazing temperaments. She cost me £50 10 years ago when designer crosses hadn’tbeen invented. I’m amazed at what people will cross and how much they sell them for, and equally amazed at what people will pay because somebody has thought up a cute name for the cross.

I love a good mongrel as well-I've had several, like the nondescript black and tans you used to see about. the last one was a beagle cross staffy cross something I got as a rescue but sadly lost to epilepsy a couple of years ago at age 5. lovely temperament, a little bullish sometimes with other dogs if she got carried away but she was clever and hilarious and it broke me a bit when we lost her, even though I only had her for 5 months.

 

[TheresaW]

We took on a rescue when I was still at school. She was around 18 months old and belonged to an old man who was having to go into a home. We were told she was a Collie x Greyhound at the time, but we could never see it, maybe a bit of Collie. Had her until she was almost 18, fab girl she was. Came everywhere with us, with me when I did my paper round, camping holidays, Dad used to take her fishing with him. When I left home, I took her with me as she was meant to be my dog, but she never really settled so went back to Mum and dads.

 

[FFAQ]

I have a collie x Dalmatian, so I guess he's a Dollie? 🤣
The farmer was intending to breed pure bred Dalmatian but the sheepdog got there first! That was 11 years ago but Cooper Dog still thinks he's a puppy thankfully. He's a big, bouncy dog who sheds constantly all year round but considering the cross I think I got lucky. He could have been completely wired!

 

[SallyBatty]

Mine is a German Shepherd x black Labrador. It was an accidental coupling but I knew both parents (dad was a very large long haired GSD and mum was a small black Labrador) and both had super temperaments. She takes after her dad size wise but looks like her mum (all black) apart from having a slightly more pointed GSD shaped nose and very soft fur which is slightly longer than a normal Labrador coat and moults all year round. She is a right softie with the family and children and also with other people when out and about but is an excellent guard dog in the house.

 

[maisie06]

It wouldn't be a popular view but I'd like it if dog breeds were lumped together into types and crossing encouraged within those types. So all spaniels. All collies. Etc etc. You could have classification shows where they were sorted into breeds... or something. Almost a bit more like horse breeding, breeding for purpose and type rather than being fanatical about closed genetics and splitting breeds up based on the littlest traits. Crossing wildly different breeds can have some odd results though. I have a "sprocker" who is just a generic spangle and a "sprollie" who is mad as a box of frogs. He's a great pet dog for me but I met his litter sister by chance once and she was nervy and aggressive, suspect an unsympathetic (mostly to the collie traits) upbringing...

If you get a pedigree brace yourself for the worst traits of the breed... get a cross, brace yourself for the worst traits of both. Know what you might get and do work for a good outcome.

I wouldn't want an Akita x Shar pei... but I wouldn't want either of those pedigree breeds either. Flat faced breeds and those utterly riddled with genetic health issues would probably be best not bred at all any more.

I don't expect anyone would agree with me on much of this. :lol: Nevertheless it is what I think.

I agree with you on all of those points!!

 

[Moobli]

I’ve known a few considered, successful crosses for working purposes - GR x GSD, Lab x GR for guide dogs, GWP x Lab for gundog work, GSD x Mali or DH for military work, Huntaway x Kelpie and BC x Working Beardie for herding etc.

Labradoodle, Cockerpoo, Cavapoo etc are hugely popular as pet dogs, so must be successful for many.

Crosses do seem to be in greater numbers than the old fashioned mongrel or Heinz 57 if my childhood.

Health and temperament issues occur in crosses just as often as purebred dogs.