Cruciate Ligament Experiences - pretty please

deb_l222

deb_l222

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I'll be honest, I'm not sure what I need to know, as we don't even know that's what the problem is yet with the Button pooch but if you were a betting person, cruciate injury would be odds on favourite. The story is:-

Button pooch, springer spaniel, spayed girly, started to limp slightly about three weeks ago. This was very intermittent but then suddenly last week she went from four legs to three, quite dramatically. Straight to the vets (who I trust with my life) and her hip is slightly dodgy but her cruciate also didn't feel good.

The upshot is, after a few days on painkillers, there's been no improvement at all so she's in for x-rays tomorrow to confirm what the problem is. Here in lies my dilema I suppose - Button will be thirteen next month and I have no experience of cruciate surgery recovery in ANY dog, never mind an eldery one.

I am a realist, if the x-rays suggest it is a significant injury, with a prolonged recovery (as in months and years) she will be put to sleep but my vet is hoping for a simpler solution, as am I at the moment. She's in magnificent form for a thirteen year old, so I don't have any concerns about the anaesthetic but what I'm after really is recovery stories, if anyone has them. Did it take weeks or months? Did they get back to a 'normal' life afterwards?

Don't get me wrong, my vet is VERY good and will tell me everything I need to know, should I go ahead with the surgery but I just want 'real life' stories I suppose. To be honest, I feel all over the place, as I've always said I would never surgically intervene with any of my dogs once they get to a certain age but Button is fab for her age and it just seems wrong to write her off and not give her a chance.

Thank you

Deb
 
Do you know which surgery your vet has recommended?

One of mine had a TTA, the first 24 hours post op were miserable as expected for a big procedure but the recovery from that point on was straightforward. She was weight bearing on the leg the evening of the surgery, commenced hydrotherapy at I think 4/5 weeks and returned to full exercise by 12 weeks. For us it was worth it, she has since gone up four agility grades and ran a European championship race on that titanium knee so three months out was nothing in the grand scheme of things. I didn't want to take the risk of a conservative (LONG cage rest) approach in a young, active dog which might have been unsuccessful and result in more complicated surgery further down the line.

I honestly don't know what decision I'd make were she needing the surgery at 13. I'm glad you have a good relationship with your vet and I'd be led by them on this one. :)
 
One of late borders snapped his completely, he would have been about 5/6 ish, as he was a relatively small dog the vet initially did a slip stitch repair (not sure what it's actually called) but during the recovery period one of the hunts came by, unfortunately whilst I was out and he had a silly turn, wrecking the repair and was back on three legs. He then had the big repair job, it was quite costly but worth it as he regained full use of his leg and went on to live until he was 15. The recovery was a pain as with a young active dog, keeping him from jumping around was quite tricky, so we had him in a largish pen and only did controlled walking, I think it was about 12 weeks in all. I'm also not sure what I'd do with a 13 yr old, I think it would depend on how fit the dog is and what the option is of not having the surgery. I've damaged cruciates in my knee and managed to avoid surgery after the initial injury (skiing, of course) it was relatively comfortable. Difficult decision,my thoughts are with you.
 
deb_l222 said:
I'll be honest, I'm not sure what I need to know, as we don't even know that's what the problem is yet with the Button pooch but if you were a betting person, cruciate injury would be odds on favourite. The story is:-

Button pooch, springer spaniel, spayed girly, started to limp slightly about three weeks ago. This was very intermittent but then suddenly last week she went from four legs to three, quite dramatically. Straight to the vets (who I trust with my life) and her hip is slightly dodgy but her cruciate also didn't feel good.

The upshot is, after a few days on painkillers, there's been no improvement at all so she's in for x-rays tomorrow to confirm what the problem is. Here in lies my dilema I suppose - Button will be thirteen next month and I have no experience of cruciate surgery recovery in ANY dog, never mind an eldery one.

I am a realist, if the x-rays suggest it is a significant injury, with a prolonged recovery (as in months and years) she will be put to sleep but my vet is hoping for a simpler solution, as am I at the moment. She's in magnificent form for a thirteen year old, so I don't have any concerns about the anaesthetic but what I'm after really is recovery stories, if anyone has them. Did it take weeks or months? Did they get back to a 'normal' life afterwards?

Don't get me wrong, my vet is VERY good and will tell me everything I need to know, should I go ahead with the surgery but I just want 'real life' stories I suppose. To be honest, I feel all over the place, as I've always said I would never surgically intervene with any of my dogs once they get to a certain age but Button is fab for her age and it just seems wrong to write her off and not give her a chance.

Thank you

Deb
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My Shepherd had CL surgery and it made a lot of difference as long as you bring them back to fitness slowly
 
Family member's dog (Bichon) did her cruciate a year ago. A 6 year old overweight bitch.

She had surgery and made a good recovery. I think it was no exercise for a few weeks and then on lead walks introduced.

If your dog is in fine fettle I would absolutely go ahead with the surgery. (I met a 17 year old the other day 2 months in to recovery doing really, really well.
 
My 11 year old, grade 5 heart murmur cavalier has just come out the other side of cruciate recovery. A few people looked at me like I was mad considering he's also got arthritis in various places and is going deaf as well as being partially sighted but I'm so glad I went through with it as not only did he fly through the surgery like it was an afternoon nap but he's now better than ever and has actually started playing fetch which was unheard of until now.
 
The new setter Im taking on had both legs done about 4 years ago, she is 11 now and seems fine, but her present owner says he is very careful about what he allows her to do. Im on a learning curve. I would be guided by the vets opinion in your case. If doggie is fit I would think it would be OK
 
blackcob said:
Do you know which surgery your vet has recommended?

One of mine had a TTA, the first 24 hours post op were miserable as expected for a big procedure but the recovery from that point on was straightforward. She was weight bearing on the leg the evening of the surgery, commenced hydrotherapy at I think 4/5 weeks and returned to full exercise by 12 weeks. For us it was worth it, she has since gone up four agility grades and ran a European championship race on that titanium knee so three months out was nothing in the grand scheme of things. I didn't want to take the risk of a conservative (LONG cage rest) approach in a young, active dog which might have been unsuccessful and result in more complicated surgery further down the line.

I honestly don't know what decision I'd make were she needing the surgery at 13. I'm glad you have a good relationship with your vet and I'd be led by them on this one. :)
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The surgery my vet can do is the simple repair, whatever that would be called, as he's not an orthopaedic specialist. He's already said the longer we delay though, the more chance there is it would become more complicated / damaged and require a specialist referral. My friend, who has kennels and boards for various rescue groups, has just had a repair done on a staffie (same vet) and she's recovered perfectly and has now toddled off to her new home - much younger dog though.

I'm encouraged by your stories though and think surgery is definitely an option - depending on the x-ray results tomorrow. She's as fit as a flea, not overweight and doesn't have any other health concerns so I have to give her a chance. I get the feeling tomorrow is going to be a very weird day!!
 
My next door neighbour has recently put their 13 year old cocker through a full TPLO, 6 weeks into 3 month recovery and he looks like he is doing really well. My GSD had her TPLO at 6 (3 years ago) and after the 3 month recovery has never had an issue with it. There are no guarantees with anything, if your vet thinks you might get away with the simple stich repair then I'd certainly do it if it was me. If it was a TPLO then I'd think carefully.

Due to the dogs hind leg anatomy their cruciates are under greater stress than humans, as far as I'm aware doing nothing and hoping for healing naturally is not really an option. Happy to stand corrected on that though.
 
twiggy2 said:
After personal experience I would be unlikely to put any dog through cruciate surgery again.
Would definitely not put an older dog through it.
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I would probably agree with this. I had a situation earlier this year where the local vets thought my 11 year old had done a cruciate and wanted to do a lateral suture. I wasn't so sure as dog was not positive to drawer test (plus one or two other things) so went to see an orthopaedic specialist and it turned out to be something totally different. However, I spent a lot of time researching and reading up on the various types of surgery (TPLO, TTA, lateral suture etc) plus conservative management (more popular in America). There are a couple of facebook groups you may find of interest: canine cruciate stories - a conservative approach and canine cruciate recovery (TPLO,TTA etc).

One of the statistics I was given is that 50% of dogs that do a cruciate will do the other within the next 12 months. :(

If you go ahead with surgery I would advise that you go to a specialist centre rather than your local vet and phone around for quotes. For a TPLO I had quotes ranging from 4.5k to 2.9k. It was quite complex understanding what each quote included or excluded. One specialist refused to do anything other than TPLO - regardless of conformation - it was a one size fits all solution so he got ruled out. Another place kicked the dogs out the same day after surgery, which I was not happy with. One place included sorting possible complications and 8 week post op x-rays. And so all the permutations and combinations went on a spreadsheet in the end!

I wish you and your dog the best of luck.
 
alibali said:
My next door neighbour has recently put their 13 year old cocker through a full TPLO, 6 weeks into 3 month recovery and he looks like he is doing really well. My GSD had her TPLO at 6 (3 years ago) and after the 3 month recovery has never had an issue with it. There are no guarantees with anything, if your vet thinks you might get away with the simple stich repair then I'd certainly do it if it was me. If it was a TPLO then I'd think carefully.

Due to the dogs hind leg anatomy their cruciates are under greater stress than humans, as far as I'm aware doing nothing and hoping for healing naturally is not really an option. Happy to stand corrected on that though.
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A non surgical option does indeed exist and it can be extremely successful, the dog I did not have any surgery on for a cruciate rupture healed far more effectively than the one who had surgery
 
We went for non-surgical option on an energetic big breed.
The recovery did takes months, but they were GOOD months: lots of short lead walks + we learned new skills to occupy her brain; i.e. non mobile tricks!

The first 2 weeks were awful. She was desperate to get out and be active, but also hurting ... But things improved from there and by the end of the 12th week we were doing decent controlled power walks and lots of brain games and she hasn't had any problems since (was 2 years ago).
 
I'd go for a simple repair - the recovery will be quicker than with cage rest. For me it would definitely not be a terminal injury as it is fixable without severe discomfort - while the dog will be on rest it will be a situation where it improves - but I'd follow the vets advice.
 
Our Westie did both cruciates, a couple of years apart, she had surgery on both (sorry I don't remember which surgery) but recovery was several months, although quicker the second time which apparently is more common as we owners treat it better as we know what's coming. I'd probably opt for conservative management in your case.
 
twiggy2 said:
A non surgical option does indeed exist and it can be extremely successful, the dog I did not have any surgery on for a cruciate rupture healed far more effectively than the one who had surgery
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Thats very interesting, what size/weight/age/energy level of dog was involved? Did you cage rest?
 
Conservative management is believed to be most successful with young dogs under 15kg. Cage/pen rest is necessary and then on lead to garden and building up to small walks such that scar tissue forms and over time this is what holds everything in place. No stairs, no jumping on sofas etc etc. In America they use custom braces a lot to stabilise the joint.
 
How much exercise should dog have that had op a few years ago ? This setter Im hopefully taking on had both legs done, she is 11 now and present owner is very careful for her not to have more than about 15 mins exercise, I hoping this is a bit too cautious !
 
I certainly wouldn't go from 15 mins exercise to allowing as much as the dog wants. I would treat it as if it is still on a post TPLO rehab programme and build SLOWLY. There are plenty of (American) vet centres who publish generic rehab plans if you google. This dog will have major muscle atrophy behind; it takes twice as long to build muscle as it does to lose it.

My concern for you however is WHY is this dog only at this level after a few years if there have been no complications or set-backs. This is NOT normal and I smell a rat that may come and bite you on the bum.

Have you seen his complete vet history and sent it ideally to your own vet for inspection? If not, please do so.
 
One of my Jack Russells damaged his cruciate ligament some years ago. It was treated with anti-inflammatories (I think - medication, anyway) as he was a small, lightweight dog - bigger dogs have surgery. Trying to get him to rest was a nightmare though... Some years later, he developed a limp on that same leg, but that was treated with medication again.
 
Age of dog?

Jake, aged 5 then 6, snapped both cruciates, had TPLOs. Recovery was quick, we were strict. Cost a bloody fortune but was worth it, Imo. We did insist on referral to an orthopaedic specialist. My vet suggested he could 'fix it with a wire'. I was somewhat horrified and declined. I wanted a specialist on the case.
 
Little update on the Button:-

X-rays yesterday confirmed is it her cruciate ligament that's knackered but my own vet is confident he can perform the repair himself and she doesn't need referring to a specialist. I do trust him, I've been with him (in a professional sense) 21 years and he's never put me wrong yet, so she's going for surgery next Tuesday. Would have been sooner but surgery schedule is busy today and I have a meeting I can't get out of on Monday - it's with the 'proper' bosses ha ha.

He's said we're looking at 6-8 weeks recovery (total rest) then slowly getting back to normal. I'm happy with than, as it's not going to eat away too much at whatever life she has left, in the grand scheme of things.

I guess the advantage of this happening to an older dog is, she's not particularly climbing the walls at not being able to go out and have a walk - she just seems to have accepted that Rufus is venturing out but she isn't. Hopefully she will stay the same post-surgery. She's always been a happy go lucky dog anyway and nothing has ever phased her, so I guess this is just another event in her life. She poddled off with the vet nurse yesterday, as happy as Larry, without giving me a second glance!!

I guess there are no guarantees but one thing is definite, she couldn't have been left like she was (or still is now), so onwards and upwards to next week.

Deb
 
Sounds good - FYI the 'wire' repair would be my choice for an elderly dog I'd only choose the other option for a young sporty dog in expert hands.
 
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