Cruel to be Kind?????

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horseymummy

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i have recently purchased a four year old 15.1 welsh section d for my daughter, who has moved on from her welsh section b ponies. My daughter has ridden since being a toddler so is a strong and confident rider. Our new horse is super and we both love him to bits But. as he is getting fitter, he is getting more and more lively and is rather a handful, he is exceptionally strong and forward going. (i was expecting this having a section d myself as a teenager). My problem - i am keen that he remains in a happy mouth snaffle and flash noseband because i firmly believe that good schooling is the key to keeping a horse under control. However my daughter tried him in a happymouth pelham and he went like a dream and now she wants to keep him in it. I have refused to let her as i think he is far too young to be in a pelham and suspect my daughter has chosen this option out of laziness and not what's best for the horse. My daughter thinks i am being very cruel to her because she is having to work very hard with him (the purchase was her choice!! I did warn her what she was getting herself into)
Sorry for the long post, but I would really appreciate your thoughts.
 
I'd carefully watch the way the horse goes and whether she can correctly use both reins. If she can then the horse is in a gentler bit when she's not using the curb rein and she can put the schooling in like that. Otherwise you risk her becoming heavy handed with the snaffle in order to assert herself and thereby damaging the horse's sensitivity.
 
It's quite a big step from a happy mouth snaffle to a pelham and i'm not surprised he went like a dream as the feel of the curb and poll pressure would be new to him, but he could become 'immune' to it after a while and then where do you move to! Also if you were wanting to do dressage a pelham would rule out entry. Is the happy mouth snaffle a jointed or straight bar bit. If straight bar then you have flexibility to move to a jointed bit giving a little more 'strength' to the rider. If it's jointed already you could vary between a single joint and a double to see if there is any difference. All the above remain 'soft' bits. You are right about the schooling aspect, but a typical young welsh as he gets fitter is going to start to test his limits with your daughter to find what he can get away with and what he can't. Do you ride the horse, can you do some work inbetween your daughter riding? Alternatively you could let her work in the pelham once a week say, as long as you are happy that she isn't going to be heavy handed with it, but go back to the snaffle in between?
 
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When I watched her in the pelham she was using it correctly and both her and Raffs appeared much calmer. He wasn't doing his zeebedee impression in canter anyway! This is where my dilemma is - i am a strong believer in soft bits and good schooling but my daughter is becoming deflated and is questioning her ability as a good rider -She is a good rider without doubt but is becoming frustrated and a little scared that she cant hold him. But is he too young to be in a pelham? Can any one suggest an in-between alternative?
 
I have ridden him and agree with my daughter he is very quick and forward going especially when you put him into canter he bounces rather than canters. I haven't ridden him for a week or two because it causes friction with my daughter as she keeps telling me the horse is hers and that I'm to heavy for him at 11 stones. Hopefully I can show her the suggestions from this post, she tends to take more notice of other peoples opinions than mine - probably something to do her being a teenager.
 
I had my boy in a single jointed dutch gag, as he was too strong in a single jointed eggbutt, but switched him to a double jointed loose ring with a lozenge when he became very wooden in the dutch gag. He's great in it after a some proper schooling, and I only use a gag now for situaitons where I know he'll just ignore the bit (such as going for a gallop with a TB), and can hack out happily, and canter through fields without him taking off, which he used to do in the gag.
Having said that, a snaffle can be worse than a pelham if he is ignoring it, as jemima_too said, there's the risk of having to be heavy with the snaffle if he doesn't listen.
 
I put my native mare into a pelham at 5 years old, it was the only bit that she was truly happy in and went well, and believe me, I tried loads! She is now eighteen and still goes like a dream in it.
If the bit is used correctly and horse and rider are happy I'd stick with it, a snaffle isn't the be all and end all and can be uncomfy for some horses.
 
OK, what we did with my 13yo daughter and our bigger Welsh was get the happy mouth pelham and a hanging cheek happy mouth with the same mouthpiece. Pony was very happy in the pelham and she was able to school him effectively, with minimal use of the curb, most of the time he was in the hanging cheek because we wanted to be dressage legal.

What we didn't want, and you don't want, is for the rider to have to get too manual, scared, even more manual, end up with a fight etc. If you want to soften the effect of the pelham use a piece of elastic instead of the curb chain. It's just using it as a means to an end, given the material you have to work with: a young rider and a young strong horse.
 
Nothing wrong with a Pelham if used sensitively! I would think the most important thing is that daughter feels confident she can control horse and horse knows who's boss.
If schooling progresses the natural move from a pelham to double bridle will be easy.
 
Okay, he's been got fitter & is now being a bit more of a tigger.

I would leave him in the pelham for a few days (till term starts?) & then revert to the snaffle agin & see how he responds. Both of you ride him - see how he goes.

Then - remember the darker nights will be coming in & less time to ride, go back to the snaffle full time again if you haven't already & try to work together (all 3 of you) in getting him light & listening.

Yes, he will be easier for daughter now - but you need to remember she is growing too, so will also be struggling with her own development & strengh of legs/seat etc - however good she is as a rider, that strength will come & go (been there done that with my daughter)

If she can ride him 'light' without much/any of the curb coming into full effect, then as I said above, leave them for a week or so to gel a bit more.

Hope this helps? :)

(used to have big & small bouncing natives - and daughter who also rode)
 
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Which would you prefer?

Your daughter safe and in control with the horse in a Pelham.

OR

Your daughter out of control, possibly scared, possibly injured, the horse with his mouth sore from your daughter fighting for control over him.

I know which I would prefer!

Put two reins on the Pelham - then she can ride him in the equivalent of a mullen mouth snaffle and just use the curb rein when she is finding him hard to control
 
When I had a fruitcake of a Sec D , all 16 hh of him, I had him in a French link 3 ring snaffle. On the snaffle ring it was similar to the hanging cheek french link he wore for dressage. For hacking round the fields & having a jolly I always dropped it to the 2nd ring so that I could still be soft with him. Never needed the bottom ring but it was there in case the situation arose ! I feel it is better to use a strong bit softly than ruin a mouth by hauling on a mild bit.
 
I'd stick with the pelham, if the pony goes well and your daughter can use the softest of hands then you're in a win win situation, insisting on using a snaffle could end up with your daughter having to be heavy handed to stay in control.
I think sometimes you have to adapt to suit individual horses, so the plan could be to school back to a snaffle?
 
I'm another that would second the hanging cheek - have used on most of my horses over the years at one time or another, used on my old mare for schooling/hacking pretty much all the time (although i did use a pelham with two reins if jumping competitively). I'm currently taking my friends horse out for endurance a lot, she is going out in a pelham as tends to have moments where she just pulls (normally if we're doing a short distance with my friends youngster - this horse is used to minimum of 80k's) I generally just ride her on the snaffle rein and have a big loop to the curb rein, or tying a knot in the rein and leaving it resting in her neck - only using it when required, maybe that would be an option
 
Totally agree with the above. Many horses, especially those with heavy, strong necks as some Welsh D's can have, go better with a curb rather than a snaffle action. Pulling on a snaffle is much worse than NOT pulling on a curb.
 
I would rather have her in the pelham with 2 reins so that she can have soft hands and not harden the youngsters mouth. When the schooling is more established then look into changing back into a mullen mouth hanging cheek.
 
touchstone said:
I put my native mare into a pelham at 5 years old, it was the only bit that she was truly happy in and went well, and believe me, I tried loads! She is now eighteen and still goes like a dream in it.
If the bit is used correctly and horse and rider are happy I'd stick with it, a snaffle isn't the be all and end all and can be uncomfy for some horses.
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Couldn't agree more and while they are still in the settling in stage I would want my daughter to feel secure and comfortable when she is riding not be bothered that it isn't a snaffle which seems to be your main concern.
After all, it's still a straight bit and she sounds like she knows how to use it correctly, I honestly can't see your problem at all and without being personal, it sounds like you're spitting the dummy out because it's not what you want yourself.
 
Would it not be far better for your daughter to learn to adapt to the horse rather than try and pidgeon hole the horse into something it is obviously not happy with? I can't understand this obsession people have with snaffles....they are not the be all and end all and they don't suit every horse!
 
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