Cruel vanity parades?

[brighteyes]

At what point does riding overweight horses and ponies round in the name of vanity (let alone anything else) become a welfare issues? We are warned not to take our dogs out for walks yet these over-conditioned show animals, parade round in the heat of the day - I have seen 30 degrees mentioned.

 

[Red-1]

At what point does riding overweight horses and ponies round in the name of vanity (let alone anything else) become a welfare issues? We are warned not to take our dogs out for walks yet these over-conditioned show animals, parade round in the heat of the day - I have seen 30 degrees mentioned.

I think discussing the heat at which riding horses becomes not fair is separate as to what people are riding for. I guess most of us ride for pleasure, so I'm not sure that riding for vanity, as you put it, is any worse than riding round just because you are using it as a stress buster? Or physical therapy?

Riding in heat depends on many things, such as type of horse, coat/metabolism/fitness... How much they have been trained/habituated to it etc. So, I'm not sure a set temperature is useful.

I also think aftercare should be taken into consideration, such as cooling washes, type of vehicle (most show horses will be taken there is insulated, well ventilated vehicles).

I know that Rigsby is less able to tolerate heat than when I was competing fit eventers.

 

[Winters100]

To be honest I often ride in 30+ degrees and my horses seem fine with it. I also notice that on hot days they very often stand in the sun rather than the shade, which leads me to believe that they are accustomed to the heat, since they have plenty of shade available at all times. I do take close notice of how they are when training in the heat, but at the moment they are all full of beans. As Red says I think the more important thing is to cool the horse immediately following work, and I also give electrolytes and have salt licks both in the paddock (well in the shelter at least) and in the boxes.

 

[TPO]

Ignoring the vanity part I think the issue with temperatures is that we generally arent acclimated to warm/hot temperatures in this country.

Working on cattle stations in the Northern Territory we regularly had 12hr+ days mustering 3,000+ head of cattle in temps from 36-42 degrees C. The horses (& cattle) were fine albeit plenty of stops are water were incorporated.

However those horses lived year round in those conditions. I would never ride a horse in 36 degree C temps here should they occur.

So yes horses/animals can adapt but its not fair to expect the same of horses from typically cooler climates to be ok with extremes over short periods of time.

Look at all the pre work that went into preparing the horses for the Atlanta and Sydney Olympics.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

At what point does riding overweight horses and ponies round in the name of vanity (let alone anything else) become a welfare issues? We are warned not to take our dogs out for walks yet these over-conditioned show animals, parade round in the heat of the day - I have seen 30 degrees mentioned.

What about those who were eventing/showjumping at the weekend? A show horse does a go round, then stands then does an individual show, then stands, then stripped and given a short trot up if required.

If you are going to go after one then you have to go after them all. Being fit doesn’t mean you are exempt from heat exhaustion, same with horses.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

At what point does riding overweight horses and ponies round in the name of vanity (let alone anything else) become a welfare issues? We are warned not to take our dogs out for walks yet these over-conditioned show animals, parade round in the heat of the day - I have seen 30 degrees mentioned.

Dogs and horses have completely different physiologies, horses sweat all over to cool down, dogs can only sweat through their paws. Horses would live in the open in the wild, dogs would lie up in caves/holes/dens in the wild in the heat of the day.

 

[ester]

At the point where they become sick/die as per the royal welsh a few years back?

(edit well probably before that point).

I'm always surprised what people do in high temps BUT I think that's because my own really struggles when it's hot even not doing anything.

 

[milliepops]

yeah the individual horses can have such different tolerance. My FB memories from last year is full of "the welsh is hot and bothered, the TB is basking in the sun", he certainly went well when it was really hot whereas she needs to be spared the full heat of the day.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

When I was producing, if the forecast was hot for a while, I'd swap working times and anything competing would be worked lightly late morning or in the early afternoon to get them acclimatised to it. It was easy to find out what struggled and what didnt.
Plenty of other producers did the same.

I went out on Sunday, did 1 flat class late morning in 32 degrees in full kit inc jacket. My mare clearly told me I was bonkers, not due to the heat but because there were no jumps and too many flies, so she couldn't be patient and stand quietly. Lesson learnt. More spray and no ballet dancing unless jumps included when hot.

Likewise ground conditions too, plenty were fine on hard going, those who were not got left off the bus when I knew it was hard. There is always another day.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Last year a horse died of heatstroke after bring left on the lorry at Somerford while the owner took another horse round the farm ride.

It's not just the time in the ring when competing, it's the travelling and the hanging around in the heat.

At home you can ride early or late, cool the horse off and then put it away. Competing not so much.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

TP, that's why its essential to have different routes planned, to have a box that can stay cool and definitely ensure when parking up that you park to give as much shade inside as possible.
Nothing will ever be perfect tho, but mitigation can help.

On Sunday someone had parked the tow vehicle in the shade but within half hour the sun was beating on the back corner of the trailer and shortly after the pony was in full sun.
The owners completely oblivious and were sitting in the shade. They did move the pony very quickly when I pointed it out politely.

 

[SEL]

My small native pony is like riding a slug in this weather and she's already hiding under the trees at 8am. I'm incredibly careful with the Appy because she doesn't sweat properly but actually she's less bothered by the other 2 and was out grazing when I left the yard (food overcomes a lot with that one......). None of mine are conditioned to heat but like TPO I worked in Australia and we were regularly doing a 2 hour trek in 30 odd degrees. I've been in 42 in Africa - horse was born and bred in the desert and fine. Rider got sunstroke and spent the night throwing up.

I don't think we can criticise just one element of equestrianism in the heat. Owners may well have spent time conditioning their horses or be riding for a short time followed by a massive cooling off session. I personally wouldn't have had mine on an all weather x-country course yesterday but a local rider posted on FB with photos from their trip out. She events so wants them to get used to it and they are very, very fit.

 

[suestowford]

I took my black pony to a show on a very hot day some years ago.
We left all the trailer doors open once we'd parked up, so the heat couldn't build up in there. I took lots of water, for him to drink, and to slosh him down with. In between classes we waited in the shade, and he wore his fly sheet. We were home by early afternoon, and he was definitely fresher than I was. It's manageable but I probably wouldn't do it again as he is older now and isn't enjoying this heatwave.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I went to an agility show at Onley Equestrian Centre on Sunday but didn't compete due to the heat. There was a horse show going on in the next field, some gorgeous Natives being shown. Horses looked fine, I felt sorry for the riders in their tweed jackets. It was about 30C at that point.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

It's a bit unfair to just target showing you obviously don't like it or agree with it but anything that involves the horse working in heat at a competition is purely for the riders benefit so they should be judged equally really.

 

[Caol Ila]

How well I remember the 98-degree dressage shows in Colorado, wearing the wool coat because techie fabrics were not so much a thing in those days.

East coast was even more of a sufferfest, since it was 98 degrees and steam-bath humid.

The horses all seemed fine, but the odd rider would fall over due to the heat.

 

[maya2008]

When my kids were young I had sharers to keep my herd in work. As they were mostly young teens with non-horsey parents, we arranged weekend times so I could be there. They rode at 2pm year round, including in August in 32 degree heat. None of the ponies cared - we sloshed water over them before the ride (and often the riders would put their heads under the hose also!) and we took slosh bottles to the grass school area. Kids and ponies played games happily, did bits of schooling and jumped with absolutely no issues - if they dried off completely, we just added more water. I remember being far hotter than the ponies seemed to be!

 

[PurBee]

I once had a riding lesson moons ago during in an indoor school in a heatwave, and the instructor said “its stinking hot so we’ll have a steady lesson so the horses dont get too hot”
Bizarrely, we did an awful lot of cantering, much moreso than other instructors lessons, all the horses were dripping with sweat by the end of the hour.
I left thinking if that was a steady lesson with him, what was the average lesson like?! ?

Horses ability to heat themselves is much easier for them than cooling themselves.
In this heatwave we’re having now, at 34 degrees in the sun here in west ireland (im dying- our summers rarely make it to 20 degrees!) my horses are chilling in their stable during sun hours.
They really have gone ‘still’ moving as little as possible and snoozing mostly. Then out grazing during cooler hours.
Theyre drinking lots more, i can monitor that with trug water, but im surprised its not loads more.
The horseflies are loving it and im sporting 5 bites so far.

Im surprised they’re doing well in the heat, but they are being still in the shade - working in this, i’d definitely take them on shady slow hacks rather than be evening all day under the brazing hot sun.
Depends what their ‘normal’ environment is like - this is definitely abnormal here - normal summer heatwave of a week and 25 degrees will be hit - 34 degrees is drastically hotter to our ‘normal’.

 

[PurBee]

I went to an agility show at Onley Equestrian Centre on Sunday but didn't compete due to the heat. There was a horse show going on in the next field, some gorgeous Natives being shown. Horses looked fine, I felt sorry for the riders in their tweed jackets. It was about 30C at that point.

30 degrees in tweed - id collapse within 5 mins!
Even a t-shirt is too much..nudity would be preferred but id scare the wildlife ?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Last year a horse died of heatstroke after bring left on the lorry at Somerford while the owner took another horse round the farm ride.

It's not just the time in the ring when competing, it's the travelling and the hanging around in the heat.

At home you can ride early or late, cool the horse off and then put it away. Competing not so much.

Nobody with any sense at all would leave a horse standing in a tin box in high temps

 

[ester]

I think it does depend on the box, some can be way cooler than outside if designed for it (I was surprised that it was the best place to be)

 

[Birker2020]

The answer is to just get up early and beat the heat or ride later in the evening. It's a pain but your horses welfare comes first.
But again a hack down a shady lane isn't the same as an hours lesson in a sun drenched school so I suppose you have to use your common sense.

 

[katastrophykat]

I think it does depend on the box, some can be way cooler than outside if designed for it (I was surprised that it was the best place to be)

I agree, my box is insulated and has fans, along with the ability to open all windows from front to back, jockey door and ramp, and a white roof- it’s absolutely cooler in there than out!

 

[SantaVera]

once its over 25 degrees all competitions should be banned as well as farm rides andhorse races. travelling the horse except for veterinary prposes should be banned too.

 

[ester]

The answer is to just get up early and beat the heat or ride later in the evening. It's a pain but your horses welfare comes first.
But again a hack down a shady lane isn't the same as an hours lesson in a sun drenched school so I suppose you have to use your common sense.

I thought the point is that you can't do that if you are doing a show/event. They don't just shift everything to 6am?

 

[milliepops]

once its over 25 degrees all competitions should be banned as well as farm rides andhorse races. travelling the horse except for veterinary prposes should be banned too.

i think that's unnecessarily strict, 25 degrees in a breeze or showers would feel a lot different to 25 degrees on a still sunny day of 75% humidity. Plus some vehicles are better than others. Travelling to have a hack in the woods at 25 degrees might be nicer than standing in a hot stable or field at home.
There are other reasons for travelling horses that would be justified iMO and also owners can mitigate the effects of heat by washing horses down etc.

 

[Winters100]

once its over 25 degrees all competitions should be banned as well as farm rides andhorse races. travelling the horse except for veterinary prposes should be banned too.

Well that would be most of Europe closed down for July and August then. And would you ban only competitions or would you make riding illegal too? How would it be enforced, because if the forecast was for 23, and it unexpectedly reached 25, then would people have to turn around and take the horses home? Large scale events with spectators cancelled with short notice? In my opinion it is not more rules that are needed, but more common sense. And if new welfare rules were to be introduced then I would prefer that they address other issues than a show pony trotting around the ring a couple of times in 26 degrees.

 

[Clodagh]

Ignoring the vanity part I think the issue with temperatures is that we generally arent acclimated to warm/hot temperatures in this country.

Working on cattle stations in the Northern Territory we regularly had 12hr+ days mustering 3,000+ head of cattle in temps from 36-42 degrees C. The horses (& cattle) were fine albeit plenty of stops are water were incorporated.

However those horses lived year round in those conditions. I would never ride a horse in 36 degree C temps here should they occur.

So yes horses/animals can adapt but its not fair to expect the same of horses from typically cooler climates to be ok with extremes over short periods of time.

Look at all the pre work that went into preparing the horses for the Atlanta and Sydney Olympics.

I was going to say this, when I lived in Northern WA we rode in plus 40 degrees. Tbs or stock horses, the odd ex trotter. All were skinny anyway, no grass to worry about, and they coped fine.

 

[Cortez]

How well I remember the 98-degree dressage shows in Colorado, wearing the wool coat because techie fabrics were not so much a thing in those days.

East coast was even more of a sufferfest, since it was 98 degrees and steam-bath humid.

The horses all seemed fine, but the odd rider would fall over due to the heat.

Ha ha! I remember it well: I did my first Prix San Georges in Colorado, in 98F, at noon. I can remember thinking at the time that it was insane as I sat there in top hat, wool coat, gloves, the lot. The horse was fine, I resembled a boiled onion by the end.

Heat stress is very different for horses than for dogs, or humans. Some breeds are better adapted than others (TB's and Arabs are generally happier than cobs and heavy horses).

 

[Cortez]

once its over 25 degrees all competitions should be banned as well as farm rides andhorse races. travelling the horse except for veterinary prposes should be banned too.

Oh dear, that's half the world dismounted for half the time, then. You cannot just issue dictats based on you feeling a bit warm, horses can operate at much higher temperatures than other animals if they are acclimated, of a hot-climate type and fit and cared for.