Cruelty case reported in H&H: should age be a mitigating factor?

[SilverLinings]

There is an H&H article on the outcome of a case of extreme neglect of 10 horses; they were in filthy stables several feet deep, had no water, light or adequate ventilation and in at least one case hadn't left the stable for two years (according to the owner). Four were subsequently PTS but the others have been/are being rehomed.

Sadly the owner 'feels no particular remorse', but even so their age (70) was accepted as mitigation. There are plenty of posters on here who are 68 (the age this woman would have been when the neglect had already started) or over who look after their horses just as well - and possibly even better - than those under 68, so why do courts accept that as mitigation? I can't claim a state pension until I'm 68 so are they saying that one day you are expected to be fit and responsible enough to hold down a job, but the day you turn 68 you can't be expected to look after an animal properly?

There is no mention in the article of the woman having health or mobility problems, but para riders look after their horses adequately so that IMO shouldn't be an excuse either. If you truly can't look after your animal for physical or financial reasons then isn't it your responsibility to rehome them (or PTS)?

With the exception of psychological illnesses where someone cannot understand the impact of their actions on the animals in their care, is it acceptable for any personal circumstances to be accepted in mitigation in a court case for extreme animal cruelty?

The article in full:

‘A really sad case’: horses had to be dug free from stables – one had not been out for two years - Horse & Hound

The owner of horses who had to be dug out of their “cramped and dirty” stables – including one who had not been outside for two years – has been banned from keeping equids indefinitely. Dianne Pearson, 70, of Sowerby Bridge, West Yorkshire, was sentenced at Kirklees Magistrates’ Court on 16...

www.horseandhound.co.uk

 

[Jenko109]

A complete ban on owning any animal would be my preference.

They take age into consideration on most cases I believe. I have certainly seen a pedophilia case where they were given a shorter prison sentence and the judge openly said that had he been younger, then it would have been longer.

 

[Miss_Millie]

What a horrendous read

I do think it's interesting how much more lenient we are in society (in general) to older people if they do something that would otherwise be deemed wrong or immoral. E.g. I was once in a workplace where an older gentleman would sometimes say inappropriate things to the younger women. It was laughed off and swept under the rug as 'oh what a kooky old man', but if he had been 20 years younger I think the remarks would have been taken and viewed in a very different light. The same goes for 'casual' or 'generational' racism - it would not be tolerated coming out of the mouth of someone younger, but seems to be viewed as more acceptable if you're 'of a certain age'.

Unless someone is deemed severely mentally ill, I don't think that there is any excuse for animal neglect really. So heartbroken for those horses, especially the ones that didn't make it

 

[stormox]

I suspect the person may have had dementia or something and it wasn't purely down to age.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I think that only the sentencing, rather than the verdict, is affected. But imho I think it should have been a lifetime ban.
I really don't think that age alone should be a mitigating factor but that age and ill-health could be. Not that that matters to the animals, neglect is still neglect.

 

[SilverLinings]

A complete ban on owning any animal would be my preference.

They take age into consideration on most cases I believe. I have certainly seen a pedophilia case where they were given a shorter prison sentence and the judge openly said that had he been younger, then it would have been longer.

What a horrendous read

I do think it's interesting how much more lenient we are in society (in general) to older people if they do something that would otherwise be deemed wrong or immoral. E.g. I was once in a workplace where an older gentleman would sometimes say inappropriate things to the younger women. It was laughed off and swept under the rug as 'oh what a kooky old man', but if he had been 20 years younger I think the remarks would have been taken and viewed in a very different light. The same goes for 'casual' or 'generational' racism - it would not be tolerated coming out of the mouth of someone younger, but seems to be viewed as more acceptable if you're 'of a certain age'.

Unless someone is deemed severely mentally ill, I don't think that there is any excuse for animal neglect really. So heartbroken for those horses, especially the ones that didn't make it

But it could be argued (as long as you don't have dementia, learning difficulties or a brain injury) that the older you are the more likely you are to know what's right and wrong, how to care for animals properly, and who to ask for help if you need it.*

*I realise neither of you are saying it's an excuse, I'm 'arguing' with the common line of thought that someone who is over a certain age 'can't help it'.

 

[Burnttoast]

Losing his sense of responsibility and remorse turned out to be the first symptom of my dad's lewy body dementia, but it wasn't diagnosed till years later. He was in his late sixties when that first became apparent.

 

[blitznbobs]

Age - no

Dementia or severe mental health issues - would be…

Either way a life ban seems appropriate

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I frequently have stress dreams that I get to the yard and I haven't mucked out Dex for a weekend, I have no idea how anyone can live knowing there are animals under their care living like this.

 

[SilverLinings]

I frequently have stress dreams that I get to the yard and I haven't mucked out Dex for a weekend, I have no idea how anyone can live knowing there are animals under their care living like this.

When people of any age are convicted of this type of cruelty I can never understand why anything is accepted in mitigation (other than psychological illness) because they either felt nothing or they enjoyed doing it, and either way they know it is illegal and not accepted by society. IMO no one (without a psychological illness) who cares about animals (or feels empathy in general) could leave animals like that.

 

[ycbm]

I'd bet my bottom dollar she has mental health issues and couldn't afford or wouldn't accept an assessment to present that evidence to court.
.

 

[SilverLinings]

I'd bet my bottom dollar she has mental health issues and couldn't afford or wouldn't accept an assessment to present that evidence to court.
.

I did wonder that, but as they said her age was a mitigating factor wouldn't it have also said dementia etc? Many of the reports of cases like this mention that the owner has depression or dementia. I suppose journalists miss things though!

Either way, I thought it was an interesting question, especially as things like the pension age are rising, and there is often talk in the press about how retired people should go back to work. And at what point does 'old age' kick in as mitigation? I know a 95yr old who seems much younger than a 69yr old I know (she looks older, but leads a far more active lifestyle and is as psychologically and physically able as someone 30+yrs younger).

 

[maya2008]

I suspect the person may have had dementia or something and it wasn't purely down to age.

I also wondered if it was the onset of dementia. My dad is 78 and he would absolutely care just as much now as a decade or two ago. He’d make himself ill trying to care for an animal if he had to. The lack of remorse suggests something going on.

 

[scats]

I frequently have stress dreams that I get to the yard and I haven't mucked out Dex for a weekend, I have no idea how anyone can live knowing there are animals under their care living like this.

I have the same nightmare! That I’ve forgotten I have a horse at my old yard. I wake up feeling sick.

 

[Jenko109]

Gawd.

Intrusive thoughts and horrid dreams are just the worst.

Some of my traumatic dreams are so graphic that I wonder if I am okay.

 

[SkylarkAscending]

It’s so bloody difficult is my honest opinion. My mum had dogs all her life - they were her life - as many know, she judged and showed internationally. 2 years ago my sister and I made the decision to remove her final 2 dogs from her care, she was unable to meet their needs due to Alzheimer’s.


It is genuinely the worst thing I’ve ever had to do in my life.

Was i prepared to see her dogs suffer a detriment because of her inability to look after them due to her Alzheimer’s? Hell no, NEVER!

So I suppose that says I wouldn’t accept it as mitigation. I know very well that the nature of dementia means the individual is unaware that their ability to cope is reducing/lacking

Would I ever put my own dogs in that situation? Maybe because I’ve had my mum as an example, but no NEVER! I’d make the right choice for them if I was in any doubt about myself

 

[Ratface]

I also wondered if it was the onset of dementia. My dad is 78 and he would absolutely care just as much now as a decade or two ago. He’d make himself ill trying to care for an animal if he had to. The lack of remorse suggests something going on.

I'm 78 and have a chronic illness (M E) which creates anxiety, brain fog and problems with balance and mobility. Consequently, I no longer ride Old Horse. However, Old Horse lives in the lap of luxurious full livery, managed by his breeder, the YO and her highly competent and knowledgeable staff team. I will cheerfully go without to ensure that he has everything that he needs, and he certainly looks very well on it.
I hope that the owner receives a correct diagnosis (if appropriate) and suitable support.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I have the same nightmare! That I’ve forgotten I have a horse at my old yard. I wake up feeling sick.

I have dreams about my first horse being at a place where I have forgotten to go and see to her, she has been dead for nearly 20 years but when I wake up I have a second or 2 where I am in a complete panic that she hasn't been fed or mucked out.

It's a horrible feeling

 

[sunnyone]

It always worries me when I see reports of animals, not just horses , being kept in squalid conditions as I think " if the animals live like this, how does the owner live?"
I would suggest that they live similarly and need help.By all means ban the owner from keeping any animal but also impose an order that they are assisted with their own problems, whether or not they are counted as pensioners.
As for it being age related, on a FB page I recently saw a case where a woman was debating whether she should let her partner achieve his ambition to move to France as he's been diagnosed with dementia. His age? 58.

 

[Gloi]

If it was dementia or serious mental health issues what's the point of
Magistrates also ordered her to attend 20 rehabilitation activity requirement days

 

[ycbm]

If it was dementia or serious mental health issues what's the point of
Magistrates also ordered her to attend 20 rehabilitation activity requirement days

If there's no formal diagnosis the JPs have little choice but to sentence her to what they would sentence anyone to. Also there isn't a conflict between having mental health problems that caused you to mistreat horses and spending 20 days working sorting stuff in the backroom of a charity shop, which is where female offenders often go.
.

 

[Goldenstar]

It’s so bloody difficult is my honest opinion. My mum had dogs all her life - they were her life - as many know, she judged and showed internationally. 2 years ago my sister and I made the decision to remove her final 2 dogs from her care, she was unable to meet their needs due to Alzheimer’s.


It is genuinely the worst thing I’ve ever had to do in my life.

Was i prepared to see her dogs suffer a detriment because of her inability to look after them due to her Alzheimer’s? Hell no, NEVER!

So I suppose that says I wouldn’t accept it as mitigation. I know very well that the nature of dementia means the individual is unaware that their ability to cope is reducing/lacking

Would I ever put my own dogs in that situation? Maybe because I’ve had my mum as an example, but no NEVER! I’d make the right choice for them if I was in any doubt about myself

My Father loved dogs they filled his day.
The day I had to remove the dog because the situation was untenable was just the worse day ever much worse than the day he died . I had a flash of me and Dad and him showing me how to train a puppy to sit when I was a child and I knew that that man who tell me just take the dog .


I attended a few of these hoarding type situations and imo mental health issues were always in the mix of what was going on .
I am no expert but some people seemed to be driven by a sort narcissistic power driven nasty streak and seemed almost to get a kick out of not behaving how they ought sometimes in plain view add mental decline into that and it’s not nice .
And then there’s the dementia and they are in a different world I saw one old man with two emancipated old ponies mucked out everything tidy extremely clean including the horses he had lost all sense of amounts and was giving them rabbit amounts of forage and did not what the paddock dirty the house was also super shiny .
His family needed to hang their heads in shame .
Both did really well when removed because they had no other neglect .

And then there’s the overly sentimental who can’t part, even when it’s clear they can’t cope physically and or financially they can be younger , middle aged and they often hoard in the house this group is where my mother could have been in the wrong circumstances.

I tell you seeing this scares you I am always thinking will end up doing this .
I also have those nasty forgotten someone dreams when I remember I have forgotten to feed and care for a horse dog cat ferret often ferrets actually .

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I have the same nightmare! That I’ve forgotten I have a horse at my old yard. I wake up feeling sick.

I used to have these about Guinea pigs and my mum had them about babies.

 

[splashgirl45]

I am 78 and no one could say my dogs don’t have a good home. I gave up my loan horse when I was 72 as I physically couldn’t manage the heavy work in the winter and couldn’t afford help. My loan horse was always well groomed, shod every 6 weeks without fail, her bed was spotless and the field poo picked daily, but I was exhausted and knew I couldn’t keep her in a way which was up to my high standards, so let her go back to her owner. So no age is not a reason to let someone off of bad treatment unless they have mental illness

 

[Lois Lame]

I frequently have stress dreams that I get to the yard and I haven't mucked out Dex for a weekend, I have no idea how anyone can live knowing there are animals under their care living like this.

I have these same stress dreams at times as well, but they are about guinea pigs instead. And it's not just the mucking out, but the feeding and watering too. Not a pleasant dream.

 

[Lois Lame]

I used to have these about Guinea pigs and my mum had them about babies.

Oh, that would be awful.

Mine started off about mice, as I had about a hundred pet mice as a teenager. Decades later I got guinea pigs so the dream changed. I hope to God the dream doesn't change again, to something like babies.

 

[Fransurrey]

I agree that age should not be a mitigating circumstance. I'm losing patience with some older people who use this. I do know a few round here that manage smallholding livestock like we're in the dark ages.

@Lois Lame, when I took over care of FIL's chickens, I found them living in years worth of faeces. I literally had to chisel it all off the floors and perches with a shovel. I had to dowse the whole coops in permethrin due to the infestation of red mite. So bad, I have a picture somewhere of me in a plasterer's bath fully clothed, as I couldn't go back to the house, being covered head to toe in red mite. It was grim.

 

[PeterNatt]

I believe that some of the issues is because some members of the older generation have never bothered to update their skills or knowledge.

 

[Lois Lame]

I believe that some of the issues is because some members of the older generation have never bothered to update their skills or knowledge.

I don't really understand that comment. It sounds like one generation blaming another.

 

[splashgirl45]

I don't really understand that comment. It sounds like one generation blaming another.

I don’t think it’s just the older generation , many younger people also neglect animals, as an older person I know more about keeping horses now than I did when I was younger. Theres no excuse for any generation to neglect animals unless genuine mental illness is involved..